My stance on PC and terrorism

[gregorylee]

I have been pretty vocal in the last week or two, stating my take on terroism and what I think should be done about it.

I guess, to sum up my feelings on the matter and clear some air. This country is ours (fuck, even Tibs. if he is a citizen as he claims )

If we won't stand up and do everything in our power to defend it, we might as well change the name to "The United States of France". This is war, a war on terrorists/terrorism. We weren't the ones to make it a fight for everyone (meaning it is not just a military war, it involves civilians).

People get hurt in war, both physically and mentally. I doubt any of us could forget the pictures of the WTC and the planes even if we wanted to. If it bothers some of you so much to hurt someones feelings, or inconvenience them.... shit... you might as well move to France. I hear they have a doctorate in Political Correctness ( with a minor in surrender).

My feelings are very strong on this matter, and the dumbass NY times incident just made it worse.

I will not apologize if I offended anyone in my rants. I don't care. This is real life and death important stuff.

Will someone now please take away the soap box, my sermon is over.

 

[DEBuckeye]

Right on target, gregorylee.

If your soapbox is big enough for two, I'll join you.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Greg - I think the PhD is in surrender, and the minor in political correctness - but I'm splitting hairs.

I don't disagree with your "stand up and defend" observation. The difference with Iraq is that they weren't attacking us, they're not "terrorists" in the truest sense of the word (It seems to be fashionable to call any foe of America a terrorist these days) Saddam was a ruthless penis-patato (dictator), but that was all directed at his own people. Except for the time he invaded Kuwait, I guess.

The US has not been a nation which fights wars of aggression. Now, while guised in the language of "pre-emption," we do. I don't like that, as we are supposed to be the "honorable" ones. I don't consider this President honorable. That's just my opinion (and from all I can tell, a minority one on this board) I think he's taking us in the wrong direction.

Yes, people do get hurt in wars. That sidesteps the true issue - should there even have been a war in the first place. It seems to me that the answer to that question is more about political alliegence/party-line rhetoric than it is about thoughtful analysis these days (So I'm clear, I'm not calling you a lemming, I'm making the observation in terms of the whole population) and that troubles me.

It also troubles me that anyone who disagrees with the way Dubya is handeling things is immediately labeled unpatriotic and requests are made that that guy move to France. Disagreement with your government isn't un-patriotic. People don't have strong anti-war feelings because their pussies. People have those feelings and are willing to voice disagreement because they ARE patriotic, and they care enough to say they don't agree - why? For LOVE of country. In an apples to oranges kind of comparison, I love my kids, but I disagree with a lot of the things they do. And I tell them so. I get mad at them, disappointed with them, not because I hate them, but because I love them.. I guess what I'm getting at, these days a "Patriot" loves his country the way a 5 year old loves his mommy. Unconditionally and without any real analysis of what Mom is or does. In time ago, patriots loved their country as a 45 year old loves his wife. That is, loves the whole, recognizes the bad parts and attempts to change those things. This is what our country was founded on.. NOT blind alliegence to your government and it's choices come hell or high water... our country was founded on distrust of government, of questioning that government.. keeping it in check... debate... I get tired of being called a psuedo-frenchman just cause I don't like war in general and this war in particular. (I know you didn't say that) These types of glib assertions lose sight of what it actually means to be a patriotic American.

No one argues that we should have just let 9/11 happen without consequence... But, if you want to talk about number of deaths in the war on terror, begining with 3,000 on that day? I think we've killed a lot more of "them" by now.

 

[DaytonBuck]

Where did this myth created by the left that their unpatriotic come from? The only people I've heard get ripped where the wanna be human shields

I really suggest you read some books on Iraq, Saddam and Terrorism if you think the only people he's ever hurt are in Kuwait. The mastermind of 93 WTC attack came into this country on an Iraqi passport, Ramzi Yousef. Another Iraqi member of the plot who mixed the chemicals for the bomb was harbored in Iraq until this War. Abbu Abbas who killed Leon Klinghoffer on the Italian Cruise ship the Achille Lauro was harbored by the Iraqi Regime untill we got him.

now for links

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/15/sprj.irq.abbas.arrested/

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/08/19/mideast.nidal/

http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/08/yousef.verdict/

http://www.iiss.org/confStatement.php?confID=3

The sad thing about this link is that people don't realize how easy it is to hide behind dual use technology and how quickly one could destroy and within a year rebuild a WMD program.

"Al Qaeda also forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in the Sudan and with the government of Iran and its associated terrorist group Hezbollah for the purpose of working together against their perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States. In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the government of Iraq."

1998 Justice Department Indictment

 

[gregorylee]

This is my last sermon, really I mean it this time. I seem to be getting labled as a conservative now

I don't really see myself as conservative, I would like to see myself as just a man with beliefs, and maybe a little old school.

I believe in God and Country, I believe in disciplining children (spankin not beatin'). I hate the designated hitter, I believe football is supposed to be played outdoors in the cold. I don't believe in paying someone else when it is something you could do for yourself, if you don't know how, find someone who does... watch... and learn something.

I believe that the US is one big team, the prez is your leader(wether you voted for him or not), you don't have to follow him blindly, but decisions are made, shut the fuck up and do your part to help the team in it's goals, then excersize your right and vote for someone you like in the next election.

I don't believe in passing the buck, If you did it, own up and try to do better next time. I believe that we have the right to burn the flag and that is part of what makes us the greatest country on earth. But don't be surprised if I punch you in the nose for exercising that right.

I believe that video games are fine for rainy or cold days, other than that you need to get the hell out of the house. There has to be something you need to get done.

I believe that neighborhoods are like families, be courtious, if you see your neighbor busting his ass doing something, help him out. I said that, now I will say this. I can't wait until I can get the hell out of the city and have enough property so I won't be able to see my neighbors. I want to walk out and get the mail in nothing but my drawers, and not one person will know. I won't have to worry about what my kids are learning from the other kids in the neighborhood. I believe that if you give children respnsibility it helps them (idle hands are the devils playground!) it can be something fun, but teach them about work, and rewards for that work.

I believe in taking your kids fishing, and hunting, I believe in educating kids about firearms, not hiding them from them. There is no better bonding than taking your children fishing hunting or camping. I just whish I could make my two understand that you don't need to check the hook every 30 seconds to see if there is a fish there .

Finally I believe that this is getting too long winded. So I will shut up now.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Where did this myth created by the left that their unpatriotic come from?

Have a listen to Sean Hannity and/or Bill O'Rielly... Read an Ann Coulter article... you'll figure it out.

As for the terrorist connection you make, I can't compete, as I have not read these books you reference. I was speaking mainly about what the 9/11 commission found withg regard to Iraq and terrorists- And Bin Laden in particular.

I should say every country has terrorists - hell, Tim McVey comes to mind... does that mean we're a terrorist state? I don't think so. So, in that respect, I'm not surprised that you can point to Iraqi born terrorists. I don't pretend to be Mr. I'm-All-Up-In-This-Shit when it comes to national security... I'm just a citizen with access to public info... it's more than a little presumptious for me to say anything in as much as I have about 1% of the info the gov has.. I recognize that.. But, I don't recall Iraq ever being identified as connected with Terrorism in any "over the top" kind of way...

 

[DaytonBuck]

I think you're going overboard on Hannity and Bill O. Coulter I don't read any or listen to her so I don't know. Noam Chomsky has called what I believe unpatriotic and anti American but I don't put too much stock into what he says.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I believe that the US is one big team, the prez is your leader(wether you voted for him or not), you don't have to follow him blindly, but decisions are made, shut the fuck up and do your part to help the team in it's goals, then excersize your right and vote for someone you like in the next election.

Greg - nice post. I quote this part because I take issue with the "shut the fuck up" part. That's not how this country was founded. It's not how this country has operated in it's 228 or so years. There are some that would say being vocal is helping the team in reaching its goals. I think I might be over analysing your intent here - as I think your post was very good - but I can't sign on to being quiet about stuff and march to orders I don't subscribe to. Too much on the line. This isn't a football game. (I know that makes light of what you meant, and I don't mean my remark as insulting, I hope you understand)

 

[RugbyBuck]

This is my last sermon, really I mean it this time. I seem to be getting labled as a conservative now

I don't really see myself as conservative, I would like to see myself as just a man with beliefs, and maybe a little old school.

I believe in God and Country, I believe in disciplining children (spankin not beatin'). I hate the designated hitter, I believe football is supposed to be played outdoors in the cold. I don't believe in paying someone else when it is something you could do for yourself, if you don't know how, find someone who does... watch... and learn something.

I believe that the US is one big team, the prez is your leader(wether you voted for him or not), you don't have to follow him blindly, but decisions are made, shut the fuck up and do your part to help the team in it's goals, then excersize your right and vote for someone you like in the next election.

I don't believe in passing the buck, If you did it, own up and try to do better next time. I believe that we have the right to burn the flag and that is part of what makes us the greatest country on earth. But don't be surprised if I punch you in the nose for exercising that right.

I believe that video games are fine for rainy or cold days, other than that you need to get the hell out of the house. There has to be something you need to get done.

I believe that neighborhoods are like families, be courtious, if you see your neighbor busting his ass doing something, help him out. I said that, now I will say this. I can't wait until I can get the hell out of the city and have enough property so I won't be able to see my neighbors. I want to walk out and get the mail in nothing but my drawers, and not one person will know. I won't have to worry about what my kids are learning from the other kids in the neighborhood. I believe that if you give children respnsibility it helps them (idle hands are the devils playground!) it can be something fun, but teach them about work, and rewards for that work.

I believe in taking your kids fishing, and hunting, I believe in educating kids about firearms, not hiding them from them. There is no better bonding than taking your children fishing hunting or camping. I just whish I could make my two understand that you don't need to check the hook every 30 seconds to see if there is a fish there .

Finally I believe that this is getting too long winded. So I will shut up now.

GL - I just skimmed the rest of the thread b/c I didn't want to read or participate in yet another political debate today. Regardless, of your politics, some of which I agree with, some not, I certainly can't argue with any of the above post. Well said. You're a good guy and father and a Buckeye. Nobody here can argue with that.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Hannity and Coulter, and to a lesser extent O'Rielly are little more than nutbag propagandists. Hannity is an absolute disgrace to intelligent debate. Coulter is simply bizarre. I can read an O'Rielly book and not find it outwardly objectionable... I think he has some decent ideas... Most of my problems with him stem from his huge ego - which compells him to dig himself deeper when he's in error than just to say, "OK, I dropped the ball"

 

[gregorylee]

Myabe I over stated that A LITTLE, my thought was more toward the Michael Moore's, and celebs who never seem to leave the country like they said that they would

You are correct, there is a hell of a lot on the line, and idiots like the NYT are going to get someone killed for nothing. I think that the people responsible should have their name address phone and email listed publicly so they can be ridiculed for the assholes they are.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

You know what, that's a great idea... if some members in the media had something more personal on the line, perhaps they'd be a little more careful in what they say.