Name, Image, & Likeness (NIL) at tOSU

[ORD_Buckeye]

Putting rules in place to limit when a person can be paid for their NIL is, by definition, interfering with a person making money off their NIL. The SCOTUS has already supported a lower courts ruling that says you can't do that.

Schools can try this, "yeah well, go ahead and sue us" path but what is it going to accomplish? If you are one of those schools, you have a significant negative recruiting narrative to overcome and eventually you will lose the legal battle anyway. Why not spend this amount of time, energy and resources figuring out how to compete in (and shape) the new environment?



Which is exactly what makes this more and more of anti-trust issue the more we learn about it (I think). A group of coal mine owners can't get together and collude to suppress wages of workers and that is no different than a group of University "owners" getting together to do the same. The real weird part is that until they are employees, you can't say it's 100% anti trust (although SCOTUS ruling says lower court was right using anti trust laws for NIL landmark) and you can't have the athletes form a union to collectively bargain with until they are employees (I don't think). So where does that leave us?

A board lawyer, or a bored lawyer on the board, could tell us a lot better but that's what I understand the real conundrum to be once we get past some of the hyperbole.

All I am confident of is that these kids are now professional athletes coming out of HS and trying to use rules of amateurism to govern them is doomed to fail eventually.

Kavanaugh ruled out the NCAA trying to limit things. He did, however, leave the door open to schools and conferences. Also, if the players are paid employees under contract, watch how fast the Supreme Court spins on a dime the moment it becomes an employee rights issue and not a regulatory issue. An employee under contract really has no right to take any side jobs that he feels like taking. That would allow legitimate sponsorship deals while cutting the nutsack off the jock sniffer slush funds.

 

[billmac91]

I'm not sure I understand the vitriol towards the jock-sniffing crowd. If that's how they want to blow their money, more power to them......and the kids whose pockets are getting lined, in a legal way.

It's far better than McDonald's bags full of cash.

To be quite honest, I was a little perplexed (I shouldn't have been) that Gene said the "collective groups" caught them off guard. How is the AD over one of the biggest Athletic Departments caught off guard that the "collective" fanbase wants to pool funds together to make their football team better.

It was by far the most likely outcome of the NIL.....

 

[AirForceBuck15]

I'm not sure I understand the vitriol towards the jock-sniffing crowd. If that's how they want to blow their money, more power to them......and the kids whose pockets are getting lined, in a legal way.

Exactly!

Does NFL or NFLPA govern who and how their players get endorsements or the amount each gets outside of the contracts? No. It will not be equal compensation across the board but every player should and does have equal opportunity to legally earn some $. That is better than before NIL.

 

[pnuts34]

Exactly!

Does NFL or NFLPA govern who and how their players get endorsements or the amount each gets outside of the contracts? No. It will not be equal compensation across the board but every player should and does have equal opportunity to legally earn some $. That is better than before NIL.

Yeah, I never thought that every player should be paid equally. And honestly some backups or walk ons will have opportunities that starters don't, if they're creative enough. If I'm a walk on player for example, I can always partner with a mom and pop restaurant for free food, and I wear a shirt for their restaurant around campus, or a local bike company let's me use their bikes to get around campus and I wear a hat to support them, etc. Not sure why so many fans are up in arms, this doesn't all have to be about money. If a bar wants to let me have an open tab on certain nights, and in exchange I wear a t shirt promoting them, what's the harm? Let's not complicate this. Yes, some well known players will earn money, cars, etc, and some will just get free pizza and tacos

 

[Jaxbuck]

Kavanaugh ruled out the NCAA trying to limit things. He did, however, leave the door open to schools and conferences. Also, if the players are paid employees under contract, watch how fast the Supreme Court spins on a dime the moment it becomes an employee rights issue and not a regulatory issue. An employee under contract really has no right to take any side jobs that he feels like taking. That would allow legitimate sponsorship deals while cutting the nutsack off the jock sniffer slush funds.

There is quite a bit more nuance to employee labor laws than that. What you, as an employer, can and can't prohibit is limited. Making players employees just to put limits on comp, or side comp, can be argued as the very definition of what anti trust laws are in place to protect against.

More important than the details of labor law though, what does attempting to limit their NIL do for OSU or the B1G? If every school doesn't administer it the same way (and they won't) then the talent will follow the money just like it does in every other walk of life. If the SEC jobs pay better than the B1G jobs the talent is going to the SEC.


Kids are allowed to make money off their NIL. It's law and the genie isn't going back in the bottle. Attempts to limit, delay or even marginally interfere with that are fruitless for the school or conference trying it. High chance of failure, not much upside if you do somehow "win".

"Hey super stud, come play in The B1G where we make you wait an extra year, or so, for your money because....???"

Good luck with that one.

 

[dragurd]

Youre right, because before NIL, the best teams didn't get the best players, and the same teams haven't gone to the CFP and won it yearly
Without NIL, I'm sure Arizona St, Northwestern, Wake Forest, Kentucky, etc would get to the CFP...

No but before NIL and transfer portal the best players they took a the effort to develop and find weren't being induced to Transfer to Bama, Georgia, Texas Ohio State etc... That's the problem here and honestly I don't know how to fix it without a NFL like system with contracts and salary caps.

Cause as bad Jacksonville the Lions etc are. There was no NIL inducement for Calvin Johnson to transfer to the Steelers etc. And yes I know markets play a role in how much players get in endorsement deals but it's not the same.

 

[pnuts34]

No but before NIL and transfer portal the best players they took a the effort to develop and find weren't being induced to Transfer to Bama, Georgia, Texas Ohio State etc... That's the problem here and honestly I don't know how to fix it without a NFL like system with contracts and salary caps.

Cause as bad Jacksonville the Lions etc are. There was no NIL inducement for Calvin Johnson to transfer to the Steelers etc. And yes I know markets play a role in how much players get in endorsement deals but it's not the same.

The best players went to the same schools, not much has changed. Players still transferred before, guys like Jameson Williams for example wasn’t t going to stay at OSU knowing that he wouldn’t get to play. Sitting on the bench isn’t always developing, it’s riding the bench and could cost you millions. No way in hell does Williams go #12 in the NFL draft if he doesn’t leave. Same with Joe Burrow. The game has always been the same, hence why the same teams win! YOu can take away NIL, transfer portal, and the playing field still won’t be level in college sports.

And Johnson knew that staying with Detroit he could always make more money than leaving, and he always was very loyal to a fault. The same logic can be said about Barry SAnders. But the NFL is a bad example because of free agency and trades. If you want off a bad team, you can using either of those. That’s not in CFB.

 

[dragurd]

The best players went to the same schools, not much has changed. Players still transferred before, guys like Jameson Williams for example wasn’t t going to stay at OSU knowing that he wouldn’t get to play. Sitting on the bench isn’t always developing, it’s riding the bench and could cost you millions. No way in hell does Williams go #12 in the NFL draft if he doesn’t leave. Same with Joe Burrow. The game has always been the same, hence why the same teams win! YOu can take away NIL, transfer portal, and the playing field still won’t be level in college sports.

And Johnson knew that staying with Detroit he could always make more money than leaving, and he always was very loyal to a fault. The same logic can be said about Barry SAnders. But the NFL is a bad example because of free agency and trades. If you want off a bad team, you can using either of those. That’s not in CFB.

Yes but my point is not the Ewers of the worlds though there is still likely tampering. There is the starters at small schools offered inducements to play at big schools. Not just we'll help you in the draft inducements but real monetary ones. I don't know how you fix that without going NFL style contracts and players becoming employees. NCAA can say not do it all they want but it's essentially unenforceable without teams turning themselves in.

 

[pnuts34]

Yes but my point is not the Ewers of the worlds though there is still likely tampering. There is the starters at small schools offered inducements to play at big schools. Not just we'll help you in the draft inducements but real monetary ones. I don't know how you fix that without going NFL style contracts and players becoming employees. NCAA can say not do it all they want but it's essentially unenforceable without teams turning themselves in.

https://247sports.com/LongFormArtic...ayfield-Justin-Fields-165854362/#165854362_12

All before NIL. Kids will transfer regardless if money is offered or not. Whether it’s for PT, coaching changes, scheme changes, family, friends ,etc.

Is this any different than firms getting the top attorneys, or the best in IT going to the same few Silicon Valley company’s, or hedge funds getting their pick from the best schools?

 

[dragurd]

https://247sports.com/LongFormArtic...ayfield-Justin-Fields-165854362/#165854362_12

All before NIL. Kids will transfer regardless if money is offered or not. Whether it’s for PT, coaching changes, scheme changes, family, friends ,etc.

Is this any different than firms getting the top attorneys, or the best in IT going to the same few Silicon Valley company’s, or hedge funds getting their pick from the best schools?

As has been said a million times by now business is not sports and there are very good reasons for that. Or did anyone actually find the rise of super teams and players forcing their way off teams in the NBA fun? The winners will enjoy it but the pool of fans who care will will shrink a lot when their best players just jump to join the Duke, Kansas super teams in basketball or the Alabama, Ohio State Georgia super teams in football..

And when fan engagement dries up so does the money train for all involved.

Completely unregulated NIL while free market to core is a potentially unmitigated disaster for the sport. And since the courts basically said regulate it and you will lose in court again the only way to solve that is probably the pro-model of set contracts

 

[pnuts34]

As has been said a million times by now business is not sports and there are very good reasons for that. Or did anyone actually find the rise of super teams and players forcing their way off teams in the NBA fun? The winners will enjoy it but the pool of fans who care will will shrink a lot when their best players just jump to join the Duke, Kansas super teams in basketball or the Alabama, Ohio State Georgia super teams in football..

And when fan engagement dries up so does the money train for all involved.

Completely unregulated NIL while free market to core is a potentially unmitigated disaster for the sport. And since the courts basically said regulate it and you will lose in court again the only way to solve that is probably the pro-model of set contracts

Actually sports IS business! If it weren't the case then why some many contract negotiations, hold outs, incentive deals, etc? And super teams got some of the highest ratings in their respective sports, not sure where you've been. Lebron joining the Heat maybe made NE OH sports fans butthurt, but the rest of the country LOVED the team. All throughout the 90s and early 2000s, when the Yankees and Red Sox were getting record ratings and accumulating almost all of the talent in baseball. The Bulls dynasty of the 90s is still heralded and beloved, as was the Lakers dynasty of Showtime in the 80s, as well as the Shaq/Kobe teams in the early 2000s. I think that's a tired talking point when fans say they don't like super teams, when ratings say otherwise. Bama, UGA, and OSU get enormous ratings in bowl games. And so did the Pete Carroll USC teams who acquired a ton of talent, same with the Urban Meyer led UF teams. And fans of other teams watch in droves to see them knocked off, so the pool has never shrunk. The Bengals were terrible for YEARS, and still would have sell out games. Even at their worst, Texas fans still showed up for the Longhorns

Players have gone to the same schools for decades, if that weren't the case then Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana would have a heck more conference titles, as would Kentucky, Arkansas and Vanderbilt. And fans of those schools haven't stopped watching sports. Fan engagement hasn't come close to drying up. Even when in the recent past when Bama and Clemson were trading NCs, and the CFP has essentially been an SEC showcase, ratings have barely dipped. Maybe the pro contract thing works, but I don't see it balancing out the talent levels. If a kid is offered similar contracts at OSU and UC, where do you honestly think he's choosing

 

[Jaxbuck]

As has been said a million times by now business is not sports and there are very good reasons for that.

What sport doesn't have a business side to it?

Or did anyone actually find the rise of super teams and players forcing their way off teams in the NBA fun? The winners will enjoy it but the pool of fans who care will will shrink a lot when their best players just jump to join the Duke, Kansas super teams in basketball or the Alabama, Ohio State Georgia super teams in football.. And when fan engagement dries up so does the money train for all involved.

I don't like the super team thing but you can't say NBA fan interest is exactly suffering from it. Some hardcore element of fans always decries the death of the sport when something changes. I've heard it in baseball for 50 years. Those people aren't the average fan. The entertainment value of CFB will not suffer from NIL. That is just my opinion but from experience, the "death of the sport" stuff seems real to some but just isn't true for the masses.

Completely unregulated NIL while free market to core is a potentially unmitigated disaster for the sport. And since the courts basically said regulate it and you will lose in court again the only way to solve that is probably the pro-model of set contracts

I agree that starting to approach this through the lens of professional sports is the only logical way to move forward.

 

[Bestbuck36]

I really wish this thread wasn't in the Buckeye Football spot. I keep getting excited for football news and then..... yuck

 

[pnuts34]

I really wish this thread wasn't in the Buckeye Football spot. I keep getting excited for football news and then..... yuck

But all of this is pertinent to Buckeye football

 

[Bestbuck36]

But all of this is pertinent to Buckeye football

It is but its also pertinent to every sport isnt it? I get it it just leaves me wanting