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WyoBuckeye

All-American
On one hand you have the NBA telling kids they cannot enter the NBA draft until they are 19. Then you have the NCAA telling schools that they will lose scholarships if the APR is less than 925. Now here's the problem, everytime one of these kids like Oden goes to college for a year instead of heading strainght to the NBA, it may seriously hurt the school's APR. I wonder if these three (GO, DC, MC) coming to tOSU and leaving early is going to eventually hurt the program. I am still happy they came here and that we had them for the short time we did, but does anybody else wonder if this could end up hurting the school and the program in the long run? If it does, either the NBA should recind it's policy or the NCAA should make allowances for kids leaving so they can play professional ball. Otherwise, we might find that decent schools don't want them and the NBA will not let them in. It could potentially create quite a quandry.

What are your thoughts?
 
If players are leaving early and getting drafted, I have no problem with the hit to the APR, even if it means that they lose a schollie or 2. That's much different than having guys drop out of school or become academically ineligible.

The team was short on scholarships this past season, and it was the best one in 45 years.

If the players get decent grades while they're at tOSU, and proceed to the NBA for a career, I won't be bothered by fans of other programs calling tOSU a 'basketball factory' when top talent produces highly ranked teams and players leave early. It's been OK for North Carolina.
 
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WyoBuckeye;831551; said:
On one hand you have the NBA telling kids they cannot enter the NBA draft until they are 19. Then you have the NCAA telling schools that they will lose scholarships if the APR is less than 925. Now here's the problem, everytime one of these kids like Oden goes to college for a year instead of heading strainght to the NBA, it may seriously hurt the school's APR. I wonder if these three (GO, DC, MC) coming to tOSU and leaving early is going to eventually hurt the program. I am still happy they came here and that we had them for the short time we did, but does anybody else wonder if this could end up hurting the school and the program in the long run? If it does, either the NBA should recind it's policy or the NCAA should make allowances for kids leaving so they can play professional ball. Otherwise, we might find that decent schools don't want them and the NBA will not let them in. It could potentially create quite a quandry.

What are your thoughts?
I have mentioned this in the Recruiting Forum a couple times. I think if TM can get the guys to stay through Spring quarter so they are eligible when they leave, if future guys do leave early, I don't think our APR takes that big of a hit. I do not understand the APR enough to completely explained it but if they leave early and are still academically eligible it is only a 2/1 but if they are ineligible, like Oden might be, we take a 2/0 hit. I guess this is a price we are going to have to pay if we want to excel at basketball. The only guy that I might see leaving early in the next few years might be Kosta and for him to leave he will have to get stronger IMO.


I think if our APR takes a major hit we might not be able to offer anyone in the 2009 recruiting class. Perhaps someone who understands the APR better than me can give a better explanation on what might happen and when.
 
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I really do not care much for the rule. At its heart it is meant as a good indicator of progression toward a degree. Nothing wrong with that, however, when you reduce the number of scholarships you inadvertently can cause other problems. Some kid who may have gotten a schollie may not simply because the number of schollies has been reduced. This rule doesn't look to affect the "big boys" (with apologies to Univ. of Cinci) as most of the programs that took the hit where "small players". In addition, a loss of a scholarship will not affect the "big time" schools. As mention earlier in this thread OSU did just fine this year with a reduction in the number of scholarships.

Now if the NCAA were to enforce this "APR rule" by a reduction in games played on TV, or a loss of revenue to the school's athletic department that would be the "real reform," and would impact the students the least and make the schools take notice and action sooner.
 
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I always thought the main reason for college, was to better yourself and start a good career...

Well these kids are going to school, staying eligible to play for the time they are in school and then leaving for a career in the NBA...

I don't see why it should hurt the school, b/c honestly that one year at the program helped them better their position in their career...
 
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Another problem with the APR, as sandgk just pointed out in a post about LSU's situation (Barksdale's thread), is that schools will want to keep guys on the team in some situations where they would normally drop their scholarship, in order to not take a hit on their APR score.
 
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BB73;831603; said:
Another problem with the APR, as sandgk just pointed out in a post about LSU's situation (Barksdale's thread), is that schools will want to keep guys on the team in some situations where they would normally drop their scholarship, in order to not take a hit on their APR score.

Which could be a good thing when talking about schools like Florida that do their 1 year to the next schollie thing and if a guy is not producing they will drop him...But also bad if a kid is struggling academically they could just find a way to pass him, but it isnt like things like that arent already done in SEC country or really everywhere....

Now back to the basketball side of things...
 
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I am a university business school professor who firmly believes that collegiate athletics impart important preparation for life. Team sports teach values that help people work cooperatively toward group goals in life. These "soft skills" often are more important than the "hard skills" that undergraduates learn to help them enter a profession successfully.

I think the NCAA APR rule is misguided. If a student leaves to take a multi-million rand job in his industry of choice (e.g., professional basketball), then I think that this should count as a graduation and that no penalty should accrue.

By all means, penalize students who fail to meet academic criteria and are expelled for poor academic performance. Just don't penalize the ones who get what everyone goes to college to achieve: a winning job in their chosen profession.
 
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crazybuckfan40;831599; said:
I always thought the main reason for college, was to better yourself and start a good career...

Well these kids are going to school, staying eligible to play for the time they are in school and then leaving for a career in the NBA...

I don't see why it should hurt the school, b/c honestly that one year at the program helped them better their position in their career...
I've always thought that working toward a career was what college was all about too. I'll never understand how the NCAA can penalize any school for moving students toward that goal faster. In turn. Opening up scholarships to other athletes sooner, and helping them improve their lives as well. The APR is yet another example of a large bureaucracy using broad strokes to fix a problem that they really don't understand.
 
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IronBuckI;831634; said:
I've always thought that working toward a career was what college was all about too. I'll never understand how the NCAA can penalize any school for moving students toward that goal faster. In turn. Opening up scholarships to other athletes sooner, and helping them improve their lives as well. The APR is yet another example of a large bureaucracy using broad strokes to fix a problem that they really don't understand.

So true, the APR should be punishing schools for student athletes with grade problems, legal problems, and dropouts...

Transfer, early departures for the draft should not count agains the APR...

Transfers have nothing to do with the school, as they have to do more with pt, and as you said players leaving early for the draft are bettering themselves...
 
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Steve19;831633; said:
I think the NCAA APR rule is misguided. If a student leaves to take a multi-million rand job in his industry of choice (e.g., professional basketball), then I think that this should count as a graduation and that no penalty should accrue.

crazybuckfan40;831819; said:
Transfer, early departures for the draft should not count agains the APR...

Both guys bring up good points in their complete posts, but I wanted to focus on the bottom line in each, and that's that the school shouldn't take a hit for guys leaving early. I would think the NCAA would be more willing to accept cbf40's plan rather than Steve's (I doubt they'd bite off on an early departure counting as a "graduation"). As long as the student athletes meet the standards while under scholarship, that's all that should count toward the APR. If Joe Slamdunker stays for two quarters with a 3.5 GPA while under scholarship and then declares for the draft (and thus is not longer under scholarship) then the two quarters he was on athletic scholarship (and his 3.5 GPA) is all that should count.
 
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MililaniBuckeye;831832; said:
Both guys bring up good points in their complete posts, but I wanted to focus on the bottom line in each, and that's that the school shouldn't take a hit for guys leaving early. I would think the NCAA would be more willing to accept cbf40's plan rather than Steve's (I doubt they'd bite off on an early departure counting as a "graduation"). As long as the student athletes meet the standards while under scholarship, that's all that should count toward the APR. If Joe Slamdunker stays for two quarters with a 3.5 GPA while under scholarship and then declares for the draft (and thus is not longer under scholarship) then the two quarters he was on athletic scholarship (and his 3.5 GPA) is all that should count.

BINGO...But the thing is that makes sense and the NCAA doesnt like to do things that make sense...:!
 
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While I agree that the APR makes no sense whatsoever when it counts against the kids who don't leave early for the NBA, we all knew these rules, including Matta, when we recruited this class and they all knew the possible ramifications. If Greg knew that he was going to declare for the draft, he should not have enrolled for spring quarter. I guess this is the price we are going to have to be willing to pay to have a good sports program.
 
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The problem is that creating exceptions creates loopholes. If the NCAA allows exceptions for transfers, then schools will try to hide dropouts and problem children that way. Create exceptions for the draft and they'll have them declare for the draft. Create exceptions for discipline and the schools will pretend the S-A violated team rules.

The current system has its limitations, but if a school simply aims for a 950, then they'll have little problem making 925.
 
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LitlBuck;831846; said:
While I agree that the APR makes no sense whatsoever when it counts against the kids who don't leave early for the NBA, we all knew these rules, including Matta, when we recruited this class and they all knew the possible ramifications. If Greg knew that he was going to declare for the draft, he should not have enrolled for spring quarter. I guess this is the price we are going to have to be willing to pay to have a good sports program.


The thing is that he had to enroll as the final four was the first week of April and Spring quarter started at the end of March...
 
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