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Notre Dame Fighting Irish (official thread)

Discussion in 'College Football' started by NOTREDAMECHIEF, Apr 5, 2004.

  1. MililaniBuckeye

    MililaniBuckeye The satanic soulless freight train that is Ohio St Staff Member Tech Admin

    I ain't registering to read the article only to get inundated with spam. Paste the article here.
     
  2. Academics and Football: Notre Dame Traditions

    </NYT_HEADLINE><NYT_BYLINE type=" " version="1.0">[size=-1]By EDWARD A. MALLOY[/size]
    </NYT_BYLINE>[​IMG]
    Published: April 4, 2004

    <NYT_TEXT>

    [​IMG]n November 2002, the Oakland Raiders receiver Tim Brown, a 1987 Heisman Trophy winner at Notre Dame, told a Denver Post interviewer about racial tensions he had encountered as an African-American in Texas and California.

    "When we were in L.A. it was pretty bad," he said. "I had people who lived next to me who never spoke to me, who if I came outside would run in their house, like I was the bogeyman."

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=5 rowSpan=2>[​IMG]</TD><TD>
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, Sans Serif][size=-2]Advertisement[/size][/font]
    <!-- ADXINFO classification="bigad" campaign="scotland21-nyt4"-->[​IMG]
    </TD></TR><TR><TD>[​IMG]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    Tim then talked about his college life. "When I went to Notre Dame, most of my friends were white and Chinese, all different kinds of nationalities. I left Notre Dame saying, `Wow, the world is really a great place.' But being in L.A. and even back home in Dallas can be very eye-opening."

    Race remains an issue that is rarely far from the surface of American life. This was proved again last week when another Irish Heisman winner, Paul Hornung, said Notre Dame should lower its academic standards "because we must get the black athlete if we're going to compete."

    Fortunately, Paul has since apologized for the insensitivity of those remarks, but the furor on ESPN and the sports pages has unleashed a torrent of theories and occasional misinformation about Notre Dame and its football program.

    A few facts follow:

    ¶A majority of our current team and our incoming class of freshman players is African-American. The current scholarship roster includes 34 African-Americans and 33 white players. In the class arriving late this summer, 12 of the 17 are African-American.

    ¶Though there is a perception that our academic standards make it difficult for athletes to succeed, the graduation rate for Notre Dame student athletes was recognized last fall by USA Today as the best in the nation at 92 percent. In standings announced by the N.C.A.A. last December, we ranked sixth in graduating African-American athletes (78 percent).

    Also, no university had more former players — 40 — in the National Football League last season than Notre Dame.

    Yes, our football team had a 5-7 record last season, after going 10-3 the season before. Over the years we have had many great seasons and a few dismal ones.

    It is true that we admit some promising athletes who would not gain admission on their academic credentials alone. But we will not admit any student who does not have the capacity to attain a legitimate degree with his or her class. In the past 30 years, our standards for "special interests" have remained constant while the academic profile of the student body as a whole has grown even stronger.

    In the face of stiffer competition academically, we feel a moral obligation to see that our athletes get a quality education and a meaningful degree. To achieve this, we surround our student athletes with a support system for academics and life skills.

    As a Catholic university in Indiana, we may not seem like a natural choice for many African-American students, but we have made progress toward greater diversity. Our overall minority population has grown to 17 percent from 12 percent in 1984. Last year's incoming freshman class hit 20 percent, and this year's will as well.

    In my years as president of Notre Dame, we have emphasized the importance of greater racial and ethnic diversity. As someone who teaches an English seminar each semester, I can assert from my firsthand experience that the African-American students are not only well qualified, but they also enhance considerably the overall learning environment here.

    The university is committed to excellence and success in all that we do. We dearly want to win consistently in football. It is a major part of our heritage and our tradition. During my four undergraduate years (1959-63), Notre Dame had the worst record in football in the team's modern history. Critics were decrying our ability to succeed. Yet, we rebounded to win several national championships.

    In Tyrone Willingham, we have a head football coach who represents the best of what intercollegiate sports is all about. He will continue to recruit outstanding athletes who fit Notre Dame.

    It is noteworthy that our commencement speaker this spring will be Alan Page, an African-American from Notre Dame who is a member of the collegiate and professional football Halls of Fame. He will speak to our graduates as a member of the Supreme Court of Minnesota and as the founder in 1988 of the Page Education Foundation, which has provided educational opportunities for 1,885 young people from deprived backgrounds.

    After a disappointing season in football, we are not far from success. We expect to win, and to send into the world more men and women who succeed like Alan Page and represent all Notre Dame stands for.

    <!--author id start -->

    Rev. Edward A. Malloy has been president of the University of Notre Dame since 1987.
     
  3. DiHard

    DiHard Guest

    17-20% of the total schools enrollment is african-american.....yet 50% of the football team is african-american....

    whats hornybugs point again????
     
  4. vrbryant

    vrbryant Ever thus to ____ers Staff Member

    Not going to bother getting too elaborate.

    That has no bearing whatsoever on Hornung's comments.

    That also has no bearing whatsoever on Hornung's comments.

    Fewer than half of those players are skill position athletes, and only a handful are starters.

    Recruiting is the issue, and while I couldn't speak accurately as to what their national recruitment class rankings have been of late, I rarely see them beating out the schools that aren't so academically demanding (i.e. Texas, Florida, Florida State, Ohio State, etc.).

    Has no bearing on Hornung's comments.

    Sure, they just won't be elite skill position athletes.

    No it isn't.

    Good for you. You're still a step behind in the recruiting game because of your academic standards, and that's all Hornung ever said. So shut the fuck up, whitey.
     
  5. DiHard

    DiHard Guest

    maybe african-american young athletes have finally realized that going to notre dame is not what it once was......think about it....indiana sucks for h.s. football talent....

    if you are a great h.s. player (african american).. where are you looking at.....i can list these that would be above nd..depending on where you are growing up...in no particular order...

    ohiostate,michigan,iowa,purdue,pennstate,texas,oklahoma,florida,fsu,tennessee,
    georgia,lsu,vatech,miami,kansasstate,usc,virginia.....

    thats what....17 teams right now...plus a few others i couldnt remember....that have dibs over nd......plus nd plays a ridiculous schedule....this equals 5-7....nd just isnt attractive anymore b/c of BOTH the academic requirements and poor football performance...
     
  6. MililaniBuckeye

    MililaniBuckeye The satanic soulless freight train that is Ohio St Staff Member Tech Admin

    "So shut the fuck up, whitey"

    :rofl:
     
  7. CleveBucks

    CleveBucks Serenity now Staff Member

    What has Ty said about the remarks? I haven't seen him comment publicly yet. Did ND have to lower its standards "to get the Black coach" too?

    I've read numerous articles from recruits in the last year that were turned off by TW's style of recruiting. Anybody remember the story of TW not leaving Brian Toal's couch until he agreed to visit ND?

    ND has to wake up and face reality. Today's high school kids don't remember a time when ND was ever that great. They don't care that ND is on NBC. Every other major college program has similar TV arrangements. They don't care that ND isn't in a conference. In fact they'd probably rather have a conference title to shoot for than a spot in the Gator or some other Big Least-quality bowl bid.
     
  8. 3yardsandacloud

    3yardsandacloud Administrator Emeritus

    Cleve ... here's Ty's first comments on PH (he doesn't say much):

    From ESPN


    Thursday, April 1, 2004
    Updated: April 3, 2:33 AM ET
    'Let's move forward,' Notre Dame coach says

    Associated Press

    SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- Notre Dame coach Tyrone Willingham dismissed comments by former Heisman Trophy winner Paul Hornung that the school needs to lower its academic standards to admit more black athletes.

    "I believe the things that were said really have no merit, so therefore they deserve no real comment from me," Willingham said after spring practice Thursday. "Let's move forward."

    In a radio interview Tuesday, Hornung said that Notre Dame needs to lower its academic standards to "get the black athlete." The next day, Hornung said he was wrong and should have said the university needs to lower its standards to get better athletes in general.

    Notre Dame spokesman Matthew Storin said in a statement Wednesday that the 1956 Heisman winner was an illustrious alumnus, but that his comments were "generally insensitive and specifically insulting to our past and current African-American student-athletes."

    Willingham, Notre Dame's first black head coach in any sport, on Thursday declined to answer further questions about Hornung or whether Notre Dame needs to change its academic standards. In the past he has said there is no need for the school to change its academic standards.

    Linebacker Brandon Hoyte, who is black, said he was surprised by Hornung's comments.

    "I think regardless of who says it, whenever you hear a comment like that you're always overtaken and you're always shocked," he said.



    BTW, NDChief, your post should have been inserted into the thread we already have going on Paul Hornung. ND's response didn't require or merit it's very own thread (IMO). Please keep that in mind in the future. Thanks.
     
  9. Buckin Crazy

    Buckin Crazy Newbie

    "I really, really hate Notre Dame

    I hate the campus. It's not that pretty. The roads are pavement. The buildings are brick. Last I heard the candles in the grotto were made of wax. The way they talk about it, I expected rivers of chocolate, trees made of cinnamon sticks growing candied apples picked by singing Tahitian dwarves enslaved by a tall guy with good teeth and a tall hat.

    I hate the students. All 4,000 of them show up to the game in the same stupid green t-shirt that bears the photos of the Four Horsemen and says "RETURN TO THAT TIME BEFORE I WAS ALIVE WHEN WINNING EIGHT GAMES WAS CAUSE FOR MASS CONSUMPTION OF INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH DRAIN CLEANER" or some crap like that. I hate the fact that the girls yell "Go Irish!" in such an ear-piercing tones it makes me wish my ears were equipped with a high-pitch band reject filter. I hate the fact that 75% of them couldn't name the starting five on the men's basketball team, but they can tell you the helmet size of their true freshman backup gunner on the scout team's punt coverage unit.

    I hate their fans. I hate when they say "I'm from Bangladesh, so I like Notre Dame" or "My dog's previous owner was Catholic, so I like Notre Dame". I hate the fact that they haven't won a national championship since before most of them were catheterized, yet they continue to bring it up even after you just waxed them 41-16 on their home field. I hate the fact that they cried during Rudy. There are stories occurring every day at deaf high schools around the country better than Rudy, yet we have to watch a long-winded movie about a Bangledeshi midget with the foot speed of a heavily sedated three-legged yak whose dog's previous owner was Catholic and so he grew up wearing a Notre Dame letter jacket, talked to an old bald guy and had his dorky friends chant his name so he could get playing time against the Angry Lepers of Southwestern Nebraska School of Appendectomy Surgery and Haiku Poetry.

    I hate their stadium. It's nothing special. It seats 80,000. It didn't wake up any echoes when I walked in. Wrigley Field gives me goose bumps. Notre Dame Stadium gives me sneezing fits. I hate the bloody leprechaun that prances the sidelines like a PennState flag boy wearing capri pants. I want to back over him with the Special. I'd like to beat his head against the World's Largest Drum. I hate the tailgating scene at ND. I've seen shorter lines for Port-A-Lets at Kid Rock concerts. I've seen better spreads tailgating at IU and Northwestern.

    I hate NBC. I hate Sunday Night Football on NBC. I hate John Madden for being on NBC. I hate 2:30 kickoffs. Play at noon or 3:30 like everyone else. I hate the fact that my cable company doesn't even carry NBCHD.

    I hate Charlie Weis. He's arrogant and overrated. I'm sorry, but when your team lays an egg at home against the first truly good team they play, you're not Yoda. When MichiganState is pasting you before John L. Smith pulls a John L. Smith and hands you the game, you're not even Jabba. Jabba had Carrie Fisher in a bikini and chains. Weis couldn't get Rosie O'Donnell in spandex. I hate how those window-licking morons in South Bend anointed him after one good season and completely forgot the fact that Ty started out pretty hot too. I hate the fact that his profile from his forehead to his gut is a straight line. I hate the fact that he's taller lying down than he is standing up. I hate the fact that his offensive line rolls him out of the tunnel and onto the sideline like that fat kid from Hook.

    I hate Lou Holtz, the commentator, and how even though he coached at other schools afterward, he still jocks ND. I hate Lou Holtz, the coach, for going into Purdue's locker room after pummeling us in the 80's and telling Lani Paleli that if he wanted to come to Notre Dame, he would still take him (even though he played for Purdue). I hate Lou Holtz, the old wrinkly author and his "motivational speeches". I hate that he seems drunker than Harry Caray (rest his soul!) at 9pm during a day-night double-header when he's stone cold sober.

    I hate all the talk about their schedule. They wouldn't be that great in the Big 10 and they know it. They would be like PennState: just another good team. They would struggle to play their Big 10 teams, USC and still squeeze in all the service academies and retirement center rec squads they manage to eke on to their schedule so they can be bowl-eligible every year. I hate the fact that even though their schedule is no harder than any SEC, ACC or Big 10 team plays year in year out, we have to hear about how hard it is to play Michigan, Purdue, Michigan State and USC EVERY STINKING YEAR!!!!!!!!! Never mind MOST Big 10 teams play Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, Wisconsin, and Iowa week in, week out, without benefit of scheduling them as they see fit.
    I really, really hate Notre Dame, but that's just me."
     
  10. daddyphatsacs

    daddyphatsacs Let the cards fall... Staff Member

    Thanks Troy. I'd figure that you'd enjoy Notre Dame, given the heisman springboard that they provided you in the Fiesta bowl last year. :wink2:
     
  11. DaddyBigBucks

    DaddyBigBucks Still Calculating Buckeye DSC... Staff Member Bookie

    Ohio State's relationship with Notre Dame is not that complicated. Especially the relationship of ND to Buckeye Fans at BP.

    Judging from the quality of the posting here, my best guess is that the average age on this board is about 15 years older than the average age on other Buckeye boards that I will not name. I am not trying to be funny. I am serious, and I think I am being kind.

    What make that relevant is that the overwhelming majority of the fans here remember decades during which the MULTITUDE of ND fans that live amongst us were dismissive and condescending. They are only that way about their delusions of being the "only clean program in Div. IA" right now. They are no longer dismissive and condescending with respect to football prowess. Not compared to the 80's.

    Many, if not most of us here were old enough at the time to remember the days in the 80s when the 95-96? series was scheduled. ND fans at the time literally sniffed at us with contempt and asked, "Why would you schedule us. You're nowhere near our level. It's suicide."

    You don't deal with that for as long as we did without harboring resentment of a kind. For most of us, the outcome of the mid-90s series salved that wound. For most of the rest, a recent bowl game scratched the residual itch.

    All that's left really is just enough morbid curiosity that when the same old ND hubris raises its head we sit up and take notice. The trash-talking that preceded the beat-down last January was a carnival side-show. The complaining about the Irish of all teams getting jobbed by the polls is nothing short of stand-up comedy. At this point, we're just having fun.

    We know that these things run in cycles and that Jim Tressel won't live forever. But we'll never be talked-down to again.


    And oh by the way, yes I have heard an ND fan say that they were the only clean program in Div. IA.

    I thought you'd get a kick out of that one.


    EDIT: In case you're wondering, I was typing my response when Mili posted what appears directly above it. His post proves my point and vice versa.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2006
  12. smith403

    smith403 The Man Who Started A Dynasty

    Well said...I am one of those older posters...also one who knows they got their good or "name" coaches from Ohio and mainly Miami and Ohio State...I listened to their holier than thou crap for over 30 years and have thoroughly enjoyed the 2 games in the 90's and the total dominance of the Buckeyes in the Fiesta Bowl...I HATE DOMERS
     
    Steve19 likes this.
  13. BuckeyeFan_InTx

    BuckeyeFan_InTx Texas raised!!! Buckeye Forever!!!

    Did anyone see th 60 minutes on coach weiss?
     
  14. buckiprof

    buckiprof 21st Century Buckeye Man Staff Member

    I am one of those older posters who remembers the ND shit in the '80's. I remember an ND fan mandating that I need to cheer for ND over Miami because Miami cheats and ND is a clean program. (I informed him I cheer for neither since at the time I disliked both programs. Now I hate no other program like ND.)

    I remember when scheduling ND in 95-96 was "poohed-poohed" by some ND fans I know. I also remember sitting in South Stands during the '95 game, next to some fucking ND fans. Listening to their shit in the 1st half, watching them pull out their fucking rosary beads when ND lined up for a field goal, their unparalled arrogance and contempt for OSU, their belief that OSU was fortunate to be on the same field as ND, their complete lack of basic football knowledge, everything about them, validated my intense hatred for all things ND. Yes, that win, that ass-whupping laid on them, was an especially sweet victory for me.

    For all the shit I have heard from their fans, for all the shit we all have to put up with from the media pertaining to ND, for each new coach who comes aboard and will "Return to Glory" the football program, I will always simply say fuck ND. Fuck Knute Rockne, fuck the Four Horsemen, fuck the golden dome, fuck the grotto, fuck Rudy, fuck the Gipper, fuck Charlie "Snotglaze" Weis, simply fuck them.
     

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