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Ohio St. Big Ten hopes.

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you still had dunleavy 6-8 battier 6-8 and boozer on that team if youare talking that championship team.

that harris/dials/rad i dont know it depends on who i was playing, what i was trying to do and what i had to compliment that, basketball is a game of matchups, and forcing the other team to change what they are doing atleast to me and those who follow and old school thought.

i agree you can play 4 guards but it is a lot easier to win with big men. you dont necesarrly need a bunch of 7fts look at the classic msu teams three guys 6-8 out there.

on jj hes 6-5 and im not a real big fan of him to be honest, hes a shade flashy for me, though his shooting has really picked up. jj is a 3 to me.

harris is a good player but also id love to see him out on the floor, i think he may have trouble in the b10 matching up agains at powell/augustine for illinois or other bangers like brunner at iowa.
 
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Also you want to say you have to have more than one player as your inside presence, well look no farther than the two teams in the 2003 national championship game.


They were Cuse' and Kansas.

Cuse' had Craig Forth at 7' but as I know and you do too he was not much of force that year, he was just a big body and they had Hakim Warrick. Yeah he is a very good player, but that year he was not the go to guy. He was a very good defensive player but not offensive. Not as good as he is now. They were lead by two guards I believe. Melo' and G-Mac. So for an inside presence they have a big body, hell what we have with Dials, but Dials is a lot better than what Forth was, and Warrick who is a little more of an inside player than what Harris is for us but they have the same stature. Both stand 6'8''.

Then the team they played kansas. They had a huge inside presence let me tell you. That one player 6'9'' That didn't always play inside as he could step out and play outside. His name is Nick Collison. We have Dials who is not as good as Collison as an all around offensive player but could hold his own down low against him.

Also you have got to remember our team is guard orriented. We our outside in not inside out. We have the players to take you off the dribble, to spot up and shoot. The slashers, that is what the game is going to now adays. I am not saying you don't want size, but we have fairly decent size. We go:

6'1''
6'1''
6'5''
6'8''
6'9''

Also our guards can fill it up from outside. If we leave Dials down there by himself then they double he kicks and we score. We also clear out the middle so Dials has more room to work with. We havent gotten pounded on the boards this year. The two games we lost we had both of them beaten, but the inexperience of being able to close out tight games on the road got to us, just like it almost did in Lubbick, but they played strong.

If you wan't to find a weakness on this team it is Free throws. We are horrible from the line.

Also in the TT game out players started pulling up in the lane for the 12-15 foot jumpshots that are always there instead of just looking for the 3's. Stockman is real good at this and this is where I believe BFC can excell. Then when those start fallin' kick for the three.

Also Butler hasnt even started to show is whole game yet. Wait till he starts penetrating and pulling up for his jumper. I will tell you this he shoots better off the dribble, going to his left.

I am not saying I would take a 6'8'' wing guy over a big dominant center, just saying that you can compete with our lineup.

As for MSU, our guard play will determine that game.

Also what do they say when it comes to tournament time. Who has the better guard play.

When did Dunleavy become a better inside presence then Dials. I would give you Battier, but still

They had

Jay Will 6' maybe?
can't think of the two guard 6'2'' maybe?
Dunleavy 6' 8''
Batteir 6' 8''
Boozer 6' 10''


I say we would match up pretty well size wise. Not talent wise just size wise. The one mismatch I would see would be Batteir's power over Harris's. That was also with him as a senior. Harris is only a soph. He is only going to get bigger. Dunleavy being bigger than sullinger isnt a real big deal b/c he is more of an outside player and Sullinger could match up. If it became a problem Sylvester is 6'7''.


Also we can put 6'9'', 6'8'', 6'7'', 6'5'', and 6'1'' out on the court, but that doesnt give us a better chance to win.

If you are about match ups then why does it seem when teams go against smaller faster teams with that one big man that they tend to end up taking their bigger bodies out.

Ok lets say you have Dials and Rad and I have Dials and Harris. You have to play zone against me or else Harris tears Dials up on the perimeter. Ok you go zone giving shooters even more chances to light it up. What do you do? And of defense we play zone and pack the two big guys inside. Then you have a clog in the middle. And if you put Dials on the permiter to isolate Rad you get nothing out of Dials. This was the problem last year.
 
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on the mentioned kansas team dont forget wayne simien he was a soph that year i believe 6-9 and that was his best year stats wise. you also had graves who was a solid big man.

how big is mello? 6-7/6-8 he was a double double thats three big guys. gerry is a helluva player too.

you are right osu is gonna live on 3s and slashing with td getting the ball a lot. i am jsut not sure how well he will do agains augustines/powell maybe smith against illinois and brunner/hansen of iowa or wilkinson/morley for wisc. its hard to tell but i will be very pleased with a .500 record in the b10

one thing is for sure it seems, we will live and die by the three.

heres the full lineup as i recall for 00-01 duke
6-1 j williams
6-8 battier
6-9 boozer
6-9 dunleavy
6-6 james
6-2 duhon
6-6 sweet
6-10 horvath
6-11 saunders
6-10 christiensen
i think love played a dec amount that year and hes 6-3
 
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jimotis4heisman said:
on the mentioned kansas team dont forget wayne simien he was a soph that year i believe 6-9 and that was his best year stats wise. you also had graves who was a solid big man.

how big is mello? 6-7/6-8 he was a double double thats three big guys. gerry is a helluva player too.

you are right osu is gonna live on 3s and slashing with td getting the ball a lot. i am jsut not sure how well he will do agains augustines/powell maybe smith against illinois and brunner/hansen of iowa or wilkinson/morley for wisc. its hard to tell but i will be very pleased with a .500 record in the b10

one thing is for sure it seems, we will live and die by the three.

heres the full lineup as i recall for 00-01 duke
6-1 j williams
6-8 battier
6-9 boozer
6-9 dunleavy
6-6 james
6-2 duhon
6-6 sweet
6-10 horvath
6-11 saunders
6-10 christiensen
i think love played a dec amount that year and hes 6-3
Click to expand...

I believe Simean was hurt in the tournament b/c he was not listed in the box score of the championship game. As for the Duke lineup, half those guys didnt play all that much and really didnt do anything significant. If you want to count the tall guys like that we have MM and Twig.

Melo is a slasher, not a inside presence. He is like a Ivan Harris but better. Same as Sullinger. We have that.

I thought you first agument was the fact we didn't have an inside presence other than Dials.

If you are saying we don't have a big 6'8'' banger to go along with Dials no we don't but Harris fits our system better.

Do you consider Lebron to be and inside presence?

There are ways to counter with the lineup that we have. If they have big guys run them. I think against Illinois that the big Smith kid won't see as much time as Augustine. b/c I think Dials can beat up down low and if they put Augustine on him and keep Smith in the game who is he going to guard. Ok so they go Zone We find ways to get Dials the ball with Smith on him. They double we kick. Simple. Basketball is easy. It ain't like we are putting a bunch of 5'11' guys out on the court. We are putting a team with good offensive game that can beat anyone on any given night. b/c of our ability to shoot the deep ball. I say I take a good slasher over a big guy.

Take your pick Lebron or Shaq.

Also Dials is not a true center but he is fairly good for one. He could have problems with taller guys but I think he has power to be able to play against pretty much anyone in the big ten. I believe against teams like ILL. we will not see much man.
 
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ok youve forced me to go to stat sheets
6-1 j williams 31.8 min, 21.6ppg, 3.3rb, 6.1a
6-8 battier 34.9 min, 19.9 ppg, 7.3rb, 1.8a
6-9 boozer 25.6 min, 13.3ppg, 6.5 rb, 1.3a
6-9 dunleavy 29.2 min, 12.6 ppg, 5.7rb, 2.6a
6-6 james 27.8 min, 12.3ppg, 5.2rb, 1.1a
6-2 duhon 27.8 min, 7.2ppg, 3.4rb, 4.5a
6-6 sweet 11.3 min, 4.1ppg, 2.6rb, .6a ***only played in 7 games
6-10 horvath 9min, 2.8ppg, 2.3rb, .5a ***only played in 6 games
6-11 saunders 10.7min, 2.5ppg, 1.8ppg, .2a
6-10 christiensen 8.4min, 1.6ppg, 2.3rb,

carmelo anthony was a double double player. 22.2 ppg and 10.0 rb (10rb is 19th in the nation) he had 22 doubles that year. i dont know what you call in inside presence but that fits mine.

i think you will see our 'system' change an evolve has coach matta gets his player for his 'system' he inherited what he got with no ability to recruit or change (unless he kicked someone off the team or such)

lebron plays in the pros a different game, but yes i do. 7boards a game

i think the illinois game will be intresting to say the least. their gaurd play has been documented for how great it is, but the play they have gotten out of there 4 and 5 is not bad either, those guys can fill the stat sheet and get it done scrapping fighting and doing the things that dont show up there.

lebron or shaq for what? a game? a season? a franchise?

i agree dials is a hellulva player, i do not worry about him. the problem is does he have to play to many minutes. i had coach once who believed a so and so (maybe your 7th player) is more productice for the team than your number one go to guy who is dog tired. giving yoru guys a blow is good and can even change the pace/tempo of the game.

honestly i am enjoying this but dont send a ton of comments we can go back and forth a little faster
 
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I know stats don't lie, but the knock on Duke that year was that when Boozer went down with fouls who do they go to inside. Other than him they don't have scoring inside. Dunleavy and Battier usually did their scoring from the outside.

I think we are looking at a rebounding presence vs. an inside scoring presence.

Well see if you consider Lebron an inside player what do you consider harris. You started off saying we don't have a true 4 well I don't think we need one. Lebron isnt a 4.

If you are going by rebounds as an inside presence then JJ and Harris would be our inside presences with Dials.

For one game, you get first pick. Who do you take. Lebron or Shaq?
 
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i agree stats dont lie, but they also dont always tell the truth. right?

that team was good enough to win the tourney and go 35-4

lebron plays in the nba, in college he would be even more of a man child.

jj has 4.9rb and ivan 4.1rb. not the production id like to see, but only 24 offensive boards between the two also. i just dont think this team is physical enough for b10 play. i know the b10 isnt physical article that was jsut out. the b10 is, and so is the nba. in the b10 they let you play with your body a primary reason so many b10 do so well in the tourney and a reason we usually have a final four team.

stats wise rebounds is the easiest way to quantify on an inside presence. its more than that.

also like we chatted about not in here, foster is coming along nicely and will be a real solid player. foster also is comming along nicely.

like i sadi not to aquirt the question it depends on who i have on my team and what role players i have. i tend to favor size and a big man. if i had to win one game nba wise i dont really know. i dont watch a enough of it to give you what i see as a great answer. though most likely shaq cuz you cant gaurd him and he can drop 35 any night he chooses.
 
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I guess what we are getting at here is slasher vs. big man. I take the slasher that can shoot and you take the big man that can rebound.

Well the pros to the ones that can shoot. It seems the teams that can shoot can stretch a defense and open up more opurtunities to penetrate and pound the ball down low.

If you remember last year we had no shooters besies stockman b/c Sullinger couldnt shoot and BFC couldnt either. So the middle became clogged up and teams were able to shut us down. This team is better this year b/c we can shoot. If you are an inside team and you face an inside team you can get shut down. But if you are an outside team you can stay in any game. The only problem our teams has is quickness and ft's.

I take Lebron b/c noone can guard him either. Shaq can be stopped by making him go to the line. Lebron can get his whole team involved and he can match up against pretty much anyone.

The one thing about Illinois is they get clogged in the middle sometimes. There best when they are running and gunning. When you slow them down like Arkansas did they struggle a little bit.
 
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like i said im not an nba guy. i do know both those guys are great players.

seems they have fixed the hitch in fuss's shot, jj is shooting lights out as well he doesnt seem to hang on his longer jump shots, still has a tendency to do it in traffic.

you live by the 3 and die by the 3.

just a question honeslty. how tall are you?

this is a shitty place to drop this but have you seen a dante jackson from mcclain i believe, i talked to him briefly at the game and i know very little of him. i just had a little chat inside the schot prior to the game. the coaches gave him some love and talked to him befroe the game from the bench.
 
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Thanks for the map, that is out of my area, about an 1.5 hours. I live in Lima.

Here is an update from bn done by Kyle Lamb in his Schot in the Arm column:

*Dante Jackson, a 6-5 guard from Greenfield (Oh.) McClain, after having a sub-par summer, is having a strong sophomore season.

By averaging 28.3 points a game this season, including a season-high 37 points against Reynoldsburg, he could be re-emerging as a top prospect in the state of Ohio.

In addition to his high scoring output, Jackson is averaging nearly eight assists per game and has 23 steals in just six games—just shy of four a game. Jackson has been strong on the boards, grabbing 14.8 rebounds a game.

Jackson has tabbed double-digit rebounds in each of his first six games. He has a season-best of 15 assists against Madison Plains in a 79-49 win for McClain on December 10th.
 
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oo that explains why you love butler...:wink2:

mine is hes a damn good player.

did you catch the moorehead st game? did it remind you any of gary williams time at osu a little run and gun full court action there for a bit. that like you said is the strength and the direction this time i think will take this year, like you and i have throughly discussed. im gonna be out of town and wont catch another game till ill. hopefully all goes well. happy holidays.
 
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