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- Thread starter cincibuck
- Start date
Buckerooni
His soul was removed to make room for more stomach
I'm Italian, all 4 grandparents from the old country. We have stuff like the Miss Italian American pageant, and clubs, and scholarships, some even for people from particular parts of Italy only. It's about having your own thing so you can have something - I think it started way back when Italians were seriously discriminated against, and then just continued as a way of providing support and fun.
I think most any "heritage" group could get away with this . . . scholarships for Irish Americans, or a club for Polish-Americans . . . and it Cuomo ran for President, I could easily see some sort of Italian-Americans for Cuomo group springing up. People don't tend to get offended at this. Should they?
When I think about the difference, I think it is about people being left out because they are seen as "inferior." If the message is "these particular people aren't good enough to associate with us," then people are going to take offense.
Is this an easy line to draw? What's acceptable and not racist, and what is unacceptable and racist? Not really. Lots of gray areas. But I do think that a group that is chanting nasty names, and that states "you're not getting in, we will lynch you before you do!!" clearly crosses that line. No doubt about it. It's unacceptable and racist.
Glad the douchebags were expelled. Yes, you have to put up with shit at college, you have to expect to be with a lot of people different from you, with crazy ideas, weird food, strange ways. You can expect to be treated rudely sometimes and to run into all sorts. And you have to accept that, and it is part of the growing experience. But should you really have to sit next to someone in class, that you know would like to see you hanging from a tree?
I think most any "heritage" group could get away with this . . . scholarships for Irish Americans, or a club for Polish-Americans . . . and it Cuomo ran for President, I could easily see some sort of Italian-Americans for Cuomo group springing up. People don't tend to get offended at this. Should they?
When I think about the difference, I think it is about people being left out because they are seen as "inferior." If the message is "these particular people aren't good enough to associate with us," then people are going to take offense.
Is this an easy line to draw? What's acceptable and not racist, and what is unacceptable and racist? Not really. Lots of gray areas. But I do think that a group that is chanting nasty names, and that states "you're not getting in, we will lynch you before you do!!" clearly crosses that line. No doubt about it. It's unacceptable and racist.
Glad the douchebags were expelled. Yes, you have to put up with shit at college, you have to expect to be with a lot of people different from you, with crazy ideas, weird food, strange ways. You can expect to be treated rudely sometimes and to run into all sorts. And you have to accept that, and it is part of the growing experience. But should you really have to sit next to someone in class, that you know would like to see you hanging from a tree?
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I agree with all except for this. As long as that person sitting next to you, who would like to see you swinging from a tree, doesn't act out on that desire then it's nothing more than knowing you happen to be sitting next to an ignorant dipshit. When you start expelling people solely on what they believe and/or want, then that's just as discriminatory.
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Problem is, being racist isn't a crime. Are they douchebags? Yes. Are they scumbags? Yes. But saying something, off campus, in private, that is recorded either without your consent or without your ability to object due to either peer-pressure or alcohol impairment ... that's a stretch.
Not trying to justify it. Frankly, I'm glad they're expelled and am of the opinion that "loose lips sink ships." You say what you really feel when you're drunk. Regardless, what they said doesn't justify expulsion, IMHO. They're going to sue and they're going to win.
People are allowed to have unpopular, even vulgar, reprehensible opinions. That's what is supposed to be what makes this country so great, right? We're constitutionally allowed to be assholes to each other. As long as they don't act on it; or directly threaten a specific person ...
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BUCKYLE
Washed
They're still allowed to be assholes. No one is telling them they can't be pieces of shit. No one. They've just been told they can't be cocksucking douchebags at Oklahoma any longer.
This idea that freedom of speech protects you from any retaliation from any entity is preposterous. This country is still great. Partly because you can be a racist dickhole without going to jail or being lined up against a wall and shot. Not because your racism should be tolerated at a fucking Chuck E. Cheese.
This idea that freedom of speech protects you from any retaliation from any entity is preposterous. This country is still great. Partly because you can be a racist dickhole without going to jail or being lined up against a wall and shot. Not because your racism should be tolerated at a fucking Chuck E. Cheese.
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They didn't spew their vile shit at a fucking Chuck E. Cheese...they did it in their own environment and it was being recorded without their knowing about it until it was too late. Not justifying it, but to equate doing heinous shit in the privacy of your fraternity and doing the same in a public place full of kids is what's preposterous. If an institution can throw expel you for saying and certain group of people is subhuman or whatever, what's to say they can't expel you for criticizing some booster of the university? As long as speech doesn't incite violence or disorder or cause danger to anyone, then it's free speech...period.
Now, their fraternity doesn't have the same right and was rightly shut down. The frat members should not have been expelled but rather should have had to face the rest of the student population giving them death stares or ignoring their asses every single day.
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BUCKYLE
Washed
Free speech? Are they in prison? Are they dead? No? Then their free speech hasn't been compromised. Period.
I'd be flipping out if they were arrested. They weren't. They were kicked out of school. That makes me happy. It's also probably good for them. It saves them from a well deserved ass whoopin.
I'd be flipping out if they were arrested. They weren't. They were kicked out of school. That makes me happy. It's also probably good for them. It saves them from a well deserved ass whoopin.
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Well the other side of that coin is how can a school decide who to let in and who to let out based on what they believe?
What if some private school kicked kids out for believing in a different religion?
You don't want to go down the slippery slope of thought police and that is what most people fear when they see the way racists are ostracized today. Yes, their opinion is distasteful but what happens when the soccer mom/PC mob turns it's sights on some belief you may have?
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Kyle's right. Free speech does not mean speech without consequence.
Edit: For my part, I guess I don't know if this particular consequence is or is not too severe. Don't really care, frankly, but I do think Jax's slippery slope angle is a valid concern. And I did hear on the Today show this AM that they have a lawyer who is thinking about suing.
Edit: For my part, I guess I don't know if this particular consequence is or is not too severe. Don't really care, frankly, but I do think Jax's slippery slope angle is a valid concern. And I did hear on the Today show this AM that they have a lawyer who is thinking about suing.
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in that limited scope yes, but you also aren't allowed to discriminate against people who have unpopular opinions.
How many of those Westboro baptist scumbags were fired from jobs and kicked out of college over their reprehensible speech/actions?
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I was editing my post as you posted, so I think I've answered. I agree with you that the idea of having thought police is a serious problem and - even though I think these assholes should get treated as deplorable assholes - this event does seem to trend that direction. I mentioned the lawyer in my edit. It's been a while since I was up to speed on free speech jurisprudence, but I can see a Court finding in their favor - that their rights have been violated in the consequence being severe enough so as to quiet unpopular speech.
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cincibuck
You kids stay off my lawn!
Whole different set of rules apply here. A few years back a kid at St. X had a pie thrown into the face of a teacher, was expelled, parents fought it. Judge threw the case out because a private school can set their own rules. Note the resistance to accepting vouchers by most Catholic schools because they come at the price of adherence to state and federal mandates.
I will say this, the public thinks that private schools quickly kick kids out over behavior issues. Not true. Many can't afford to toss out more than one or two extreme cases and still meet budget. At $13.5 a year for most Catholic high schools in Cincinnati, 5 students = 1 teacher's salary + benefits
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