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on humans and nature - the god side

Discussion in 'Philosophical Musings' started by martinss01, Apr 3, 2016.

  1. martinss01

    martinss01 blissfully stupid

    there are two stances on how we as a species came to be. in this thread we assume we were created by god as we are today.... just... more naked and less kardashian-like..

    basic premise of mine that may or may not be correct. we as a species, when lined up next to every other creature on this planet, flat out do not belong. we are not just unlike everything else on this planet. we are absolutely nothing like anything else on this planet. let me explain...

    if you look at a zebra or a dolphin or a house fly. every single species on this planet is perfectly adapted and designed for its role in its given ecosystem. they all have physical adaptations/design (depending on what word you want to use) that perfectly suit them for the role they play in the food chain.

    we humans seem to have absolutely 0 physical adaptations to any ecosystem found on this planet. we don't have claws of any significant value or mighty fangs. we don't run particularly fast, we can climb... but not in any way resembling positively competitive when compared to what you find elsewhere in nature. worst still, i can't think of a single climate region a human being could be expected to survive in without any form of technology. without access to clothing or fire or any other type of technology, every climate zone on this planet would literally kill us simply from exposure.

    so if we assume god snapped his finger and insto poof-o here we are... where were we and how on earth did we make it to day 2? even assuming we ate from the knowledge tree... it would have had to have been specific knowledge 100% for the specific climate we were put into day one. even then, should adam and eve had been dumped into where ever with super uber knowledge about that specific environment. the odds of long term survival is very low.

    so how did we do it and why are we so radically unlike every other species on this planet?

    further, other than bugs and various species of vulture... why does nothing see us as a potential food source? and they only see us that way when we are dead and rotting.

    sure the occasional mistaken identity by a shark and human activity with wild tigers has increased the # of fatal attacks significantly. but when a human enters an eco system we say we have become part of the food chain. but that really isn't true. most predators, even ones very capable of killing us with extreme ease, avoid or run away when they see us. lions tigers and bears oh my are all far more interested in avoiding us than eating us. further still, when we enter the ocean we are well beyond being the weakest most pathetic thing going. so why is it every carnivorous thing in the ocean doesn't see a super slow self propelled buffet when they see a free diver? why is it nature views us as weird freaks that should be avoided unless absolutely necessary?

    you can claim that is a learned behavior because we have been at the top of the food chain for so long. but im not buying that. i have a hard time believing fish see humans and think, "oh crap! people eat me i should be afraid of them!" when they see someone wading in the ocean.

    so whats the deal? why are we so hopelessly pathetic with the exception of intelligence? why this planet? meaning why not some other set of climatic rules? why the species of animal we are surrounded by and how did we survive to today?
     
  2. Muck

    Muck Enjoy Every Sandwich Staff Member

    I'll touch on evolution when I have more time but for now, what in the world led you to believe that apex predators don't see us as food?
     
    BUCKYLE likes this.
  3. TDunk

    TDunk The Dunk Abides

    Especially cannibals.
     
    scarletmike, jwinslow and BUCKYLE like this.
  4. Muck

    Muck Enjoy Every Sandwich Staff Member

    [​IMG]
     
    jwinslow and BUCKYLE like this.
  5. ExpatAkronite

    ExpatAkronite Anarchist Jurisdiction in Cascadia Subduction Zone

    Stanislaw Lem (Polish sci fi writer, philosopher) had a great story where Earth was a toxic waste dump for the rest of the universe and humans evolved from that sludge (therefore don't fit the ecosystem)....Lem is always a fun read as he used sci fi to get around the eastern bloc censorship.
     
  6. Taosman

    Taosman Buzzed

    Everything is food for something else.
    "It's the circle of life!"
     
  7. AKAK

    AKAK If you hear the siren its already too late Staff Member

    And brain eating zombies.
     
  8. OSU_Buckguy

    OSU_Buckguy Senior

    mammalian diving reflex.
     
  9. martinss01

    martinss01 blissfully stupid

    my personal experiences in the wild and a likely unhealthy level of nature shows as a child?

    outside of tigers in certain parts of the world (i want to say only one part of india if im remembering correctly) where tiger habitat is so small for the population of said tigers its kind of mind blowing. i believe many of the locals wear masks on the back of their heads to avoid being attacked. but outside of that very specific situation, what animal makes it a part of its daily habit to actively hunt humans? outside of said tigers, which imo is a very extreme situation that seems to have more to do with the animals extreme stress and desperation, i can't think of a single animal (tigers in all other parts of the world included) that actively counts humans as legit prey. sure, you can find examples of sick and or injured and or individual animals that have become habituated to human interaction in some way which lead it to predating on "a" person. but every case i have ever heard of is well beyond the norm and has something extreme involved that was directly related to the predation.

    oh and yes, i have seen the movie the ghost and the darkness. actually pretty good imo. but if anything this proves my point rather than contradicts it. if a band of two lone male lions could literally kill hundreds of people in an age of fairly readily available firearms... why don't they all do it? its pretty clear they could do so fairly easily and it would require far less effort than the stuff they normally take down so....

    outside of protecting their young, even wild animals that come into contact with people on a regular basis in completely uncontrolled situations not only avoid people, but seem to pretty exclusively consider people off the menu. how many people go out grizzly watching vrs. how many get eaten while doing so? its generally considered scientific fact that great whites spit the bits of people out after an attack. while this is less than helpful for the person who has literally been bitten in half.... it certainly isn't an indication that we're overly tasty. ive seen videos of africans armed with nothing but sticks chasing lions off their kills to harvest the meat. 3 or so 5 foot nuthin hundred and nuthin pound yokels with sticks vrs 5 400+ pound killing machines.... from a logic standpoint that math really shouldn't add up. in fact, i can't think of a single continent where humans are not more likely to be killed by a herbivore than a carnivore.

    to go a step further, history tells us that this has been the case as far back as the age of rome. it was rather common place for "animal trainers" to be killed by the romans funding the specific games as their animals very often refused to take any aggressive action towards the poor fools thrown in the pit with them regardless of what said animal trainers did to entice this action. i seem to recall it being said it was more dangerous to be the animal trainer than the poor fool thrown into the pit with the animal. if your vicious beasts should refuse to kill the condemned, it was you who would be held responsible in a very lethal sense.

    come to think of it, i hadn't actually considered this until now. but i wonder how many healthy animals who have been involved in cases where they killed a human because said human ended up in between them and their young actually ate the human they killed. bears come to mind as the most common culprits involved in this type of scenario. seeing as how they hibernate a significant portion of the year and literally eat anything from moths to tree bark to plants to deer when active... if they killed anything at all regardless of what led to that action, it would stand to reason that they would eat it. i wonder if that actually happens... guess i have some research to do =P

    i could be completely in left field on all of this... but i haven't seen any evidence to contradict my opinion just yet. outside of the one rather extreme tiger situation of course. which imo is the extreme situation as the cause rather than the tiger thinking human = yummy.
     
  10. martinss01

    martinss01 blissfully stupid

    never heard of him, but that is a somewhat interesting theory. for some reason radiation came to mind when i read this. my understanding of radiation half life dating is very limited. but isn't radiation half life dating how we determine the "age" of non living things? especially old stuff like moon rocks and the earth itself n such? seeing as how we as a species haven't done a ton of off earth exploring, "theoretically speaking" our understanding of radiation dating could be very wrong in such a scenario. with absolutely no evidence to back up such a claim, "theoretically" mr. lem's idea's could technically have some semblance of possibility. "aliens" (which in this particular thread we will refer to as "god") could have used this planet as a toxic waste dump (or for the purposes of this thread, god used this natural phenomina to bring about his will). if such a thing occurred, and it was radiation that was being dumped somehow (i have no idea how one would go about dumping straight radiation evenly across a planet or why that would be desirable for the dump-er) one of the impacts to this would be throwing off our idea's on how old the earth actually is.

    yes i realize i jumped right past the idea that aliens might exist and used the earth as a garbage can and proceeded directly to the almost completely irrelevant "earth might be older than we thought" wagon. *shrug* im rather weird... you people should know this by now :P.

    oh and btw.... its been like... many hours since my original reply to muck and not a single predation joke? i am very disappointed in all of you.
     
  11. Steve19

    Steve19 Watching. Always watching. Staff Member

  12. ExpatAkronite

    ExpatAkronite Anarchist Jurisdiction in Cascadia Subduction Zone

    And maybe it is just man's "bro" instinct--cro magnon and neanderthal interbreeding = got drunk and screwed anything--that lead the race to being an anomaly. Now that's divine.
     
  13. TDunk

    TDunk The Dunk Abides

  14. Abenaki

    Abenaki Ohio against the world.

  15. muffler dragon

    muffler dragon Bien. Bien chiludo.

    Interesting thread.
     

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