PBS Special on Mormon Church

[Bleed S & G]

Richard Dawkins recently described, apparently, as nothing more than a "sexed up atheist"

 

[buckeyegrad]

Nor is it, in my mind, any more unbelievable than believing a man wondering around the Roman empire performing miracles like raising the dead (John 11:44) would escape detection of the Romans

Off topic here, but since we have discussed this issue before, let me address the flaw in your reasoning once again about Romans taking notice of Jesus.

How much detection would modern individuals in authority give if followers of a voodoo witch in the backwaters of Louisiana came forth with a claim that she had raised someone from the dead? Not much, yet this is exactly how Jesus' actions would be viewed to Roman authorities. Heck, there is a guy in Florida who currently claims that he is Jesus reborn and people are getting tattoos of 666 on themselves, yet it has yet to reach the attention of the mainstream media (personal note, I do not think this man is THE Antichirst, only A antichrist, but considering the conciousness in our culture such a figure holds, it is surprising such a story has not been convered, even only as an interest piece).

You will also notice that this is the last public event in Christ's ministry until those directly leading up to his crucifixion during the Passover. Keep reading John 11 and you will see that it says that Jesus no longer moved about publicly among the Jews and withdrew to a region near the desert. So, even if the story did reach Roman ears, there would have been little need to concern themselves as he had effectively disappeared from the scene.

Finally, there is a possibility suggested in John 11 that the leading Jewish authorities may have suppressed any stories about Jesus from reaching Roman authorities. As is stated in 11:48, the Pharisees and Sanhedrin worried that Roman attention would lead to their destruction.

So, once again, it is not unreasonable at all that the Romans did not note Jesus during his 3.5 year ministry.

 

[Bleed S & G]

Heck, there is a guy in Florida who currently claims that he is Jesus reborn and people are getting tattoos of 666 on themselves

You must have ESPn i saw this today

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmC6LBpBUv4[/YOUTUBE]

I love his diamond ring and rolex.. best quote:
"Are you greater than Jesus of Nazareth?"
"Yes, Jesus taught in parables"

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Off topic here, but since we have discussed this issue before, let me address the flaw in your reasoning once again about Romans taking notice of Jesus.

How much detection would modern individuals in authority give if followers of a voodoo witch in the backwaters of Louisiana came forth with a claim that she had raised someone from the dead? Not much, yet this is exactly how Jesus' actions would be viewed to Roman authorities. Heck, there is a guy in Florida who currently claims that he is Jesus reborn and people are getting tattoos of 666 on themselves, yet it has yet to reach the attention of the mainstream media (personal note, I do not think this man is THE Antichirst, only A antichrist, but considering the conciousness in our culture such a figure holds, it is surprising such a story has not been convered, even only as an interest piece).

You will also notice that this is the last public event in Christ's ministry until those directly leading up to his crucifixion during the Passover. Keep reading John 11 and you will see that it says that Jesus no longer moved about publicly among the Jews and withdrew to a region near the desert. So, even if the story did reach Roman ears, there would have been little need to concern themselves as he had effectively disappeared from the scene.

Finally, there is a possibility suggested in John 11 that the leading Jewish authorities may have suppressed any stories about Jesus from reaching Roman authorities. As is stated in 11:48, the Pharisees and Sanhedrin worried that Roman attention would lead to their destruction.

So, once again, it is not unreasonable at all that the Romans did not note Jesus during his 3.5 year ministry.

Didn't say it was unreasonable, although you seem to have inadvertantly agreed that the other things I mention are, by exclusion, unreasonable beliefs (And, I'm pretty confident that you'd find the Joe Smith tale not worthy of belief, 'cause if you did, you'd be a Mormon.) Likewise, you just compared your Lord and Savior to a backwoods witch-doctor in terms of importance.

 

[AKAK]

You must have ESPn i saw this today[/YOUTUBE]

I love his diamond ring and rolex.. best quote:
"Are you greater than Jesus of Nazareth?"
"Yes, Jesus taught in parables"

 

[buckeyegrad]

Didn't say it was unreasonable,

Sorry, my bad, you said "unbelievable", but the point remains the same.

although you seem to have inadvertantly agreed that the other things I mention are, by exclusion, unreasonable beliefs

That is a bold and incorrect assertion to argue from silence. Unreasonable or unbelievable to the modern/postmodern paradigm, yes; but I think those paradigms are incorrect, so who cares.

Likewise, you just compared your Lord and Savior to a backwoods witch-doctor in terms of importance.

From the Roman perspective or the evolutionary naturalist, yes they would be comparable. However, since I reject both of these perspectives, I am not making such a comparison. In other words, the simile exists between the Roman and the modern, not between the witch doctor and Jesus.


What's with the "cute hostility" I've been noticing in your posts the last couple of days?

 

[jwinslow]

What's with the "cute hostility" I've been noticing in your posts the last couple of days?

Let's blame the gator influence :p

 

[Gatorubet]

Hey... what's wrong with throat slash/disembowling signs?

I was raised to believe it would result in a drive killing 15 yard personal foul call...

"Thou shalt not throat slash, or yeah verily thou shalt run steps until thou puketh" - Urban 1:21

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

What's with the "cute hostility" I've been noticing in your posts the last couple of days?

Eh... I deleted the other part just cause I don't feel like arguing right now. Besides, as you noted, we've been down that road on the Official Bible thread....

On the cute hostility... not sure what that's about, but I can say on re-reading some of my recent posts, I can surely see what you're meaning... probably haven't been thinking things through before posting them as I should. And, truth is, I have become more recently "openly hostile" to the Bible as a literal word of God thing over the last couple of weeks, and so I have little doubt that some of these more recent revelations on my part are working there way in to my posts.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about an old problem - Omniscience v. Free Will and the ramifications of something I just realized about the nature of reality generally and the relative bluntness of the tool that is Philosophy. So, I guess what I'm saying is, that theory I've been playing with is taking up most of my "God time" and that's part of the reason why I'm not thinking these posts through as well as I should.

Excuses aside, I apologize for the "cute hostility." I'll make a better effort to think things through and thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[Thump]

Eh... I deleted the other part just cause I don't feel like arguing right now. Besides, as you noted, we've been down that road on the Official Bible thread....

On the cute hostility... not sure what that's about, but I can say on re-reading some of my recent posts, I can surely see what you're meaning... probably haven't been thinking things through before posting them as I should. And, truth is, I have become more recently "openly hostile" to the Bible as a literal word of God thing over the last couple of weeks, and so I have little doubt that some of these more recent revelations on my part are working there way in to my posts.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about an old problem - Omniscience v. Free Will and the ramifications of something I just realized about the nature of reality generally and the relative bluntness of the tool that is Philosophy. So, I guess what I'm saying is, that theory I've been playing with is taking up most of my "God time" and that's part of the reason why I'm not thinking these posts through as well as I should.

Excuses aside, I apologize for the "cute hostility." I'll make a better effort to think things through and thanks for bringing it to my attention.

It's the offseason, you're forgiven.

 

[Gatorubet]

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyegrad
What's with the "cute hostility" I've been noticing in your posts the last couple of days?

Let's blame the gator influence :p

I'm a uniterer, not a dividerer...

 

[buckeyegrad]

Excuses aside, I apologize for the "cute hostility." I'll make a better effort to think things through and thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Not a problem. I just noticed more sarcasm in your recent posts when addressing Christian beliefs than I have grown accustom to.

 

[AKAK]

I was raised to believe it would result in a drive killing 15 yard personal foul call...

"Thou shalt not throat slash, or yeah verily thou shalt run steps until thou puketh" - Urban 1:21

Hmmm... a penalty for the penalty sign.

very interesting.

 

[Gatorubet]

Not a problem. I just noticed more sarcasm in your recent posts when addressing Christian beliefs than I have grown accustom to.

And it is probably true that my disbelief in LDS doctrine has resulted in my tone being more confrontational than I'd consciously wanted. My apologies for that.

To be fair, my own beliefs are far from fundamentalist. I was raised to play golf on Sunday, and as an Easter-Christmas attender, had little or no preconceived religious instruction. My church home is on the left of even our denomination's spectrum. The willingness of my church to allow discussions on all topics, even entertaining discussion on what would be considered heretical views by other churches, was the thing that attracted me to the church.

I think that "faith" alone is a pretty piss poor reason to follow any religion, as every religion has adherents with strong faith. Most of these faithful people are wonderfully spiritual people as well, so you cannot judge a religion's doctrines by it adherents. Any religion that resists or hinders its members in any probing analysis of its doctrine I have issues with. And that is a large grouping. To be sure, I, personally, do not have the answer, and cannot claim to know it. I do believe that any church should be avoided if they hinder genuine inspection of doctrine. That is a sure sign of cultish behavior, although discouraging discussion is not synonymous with a cult. I'm not talking about refusing to agree with other views, I'm talking about refusing to entertain discussion on other views. Just my opinion.

 

[lvbuckeye]

If I could make one word change -- Im not expecting everyone to accept it,but contray to popular belief, the book of mormon (for those who belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints) wasnt "written" by JS, rather it was translated -- this is our belief

umm... yeah... i forgot that he gave the plates back to the angel after he finished 'translating' them.

Joseph Smith Bio