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A true athiest shouldn't care about "under God", etc. as they would realize these are mere words with no real power.
Again, Athiests are not permitted to hold public office, so they are forced to have a pledge of alliegence including a christian oath, and are denied equal protection under the law. The point is, that the use of a religious oath is discrriminatory to those who don't profess that religion. I've seen some arguments that the words "under god" can be applied to other religions, like Buddhism, but this is incorrect, since Buddhism does not have "a god."

Thump, in answer to your question, I can say that I love living in the United States, because I am free to voice my opinions without fear of being thrown in prison, or being told to get on the boat and go back to where I came from (Incidentally, since my grandfather was Native American, this latter suggestion poses a problem).
 
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WTF!! Please explain you're ridiculous connection here.
My point is, some people find the notion of including God in the Pledge to be as arbitrary as including this fictitious "Darrell". Additionally, I was trying to make the point that adding words to the Pledge that nearly everybody disagrees with is morally equivalent to adding (or leaving in) words that even most people agree with.

What do you suggest we replace the pledge with?
I have never suggested replacing the Pledge. I only wish that "under God" is dropped. I want to pledge my allegiance to our flag, and our Republic for which it stands. As for God, that's something completely different, which each of us should be able to pledge our allegiance to in a different manner, and definitely not one sanctioned by our government.

Under your guys plan you just want to have everyone live in this utopian society!
What plan? If you're talking about the plan set forth in the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights, then yes. As far as "utopia" goes, if striving for continual improvement of our society for all people makes me utopian, then so be it.

As far as atheists, who says we have to cater to them? It's their problem for living in a country that they are in the vast majority. Wecan't cater to every single person's needs?
My point is that the Pledge of Allegiance should cater to nobody's religion, not Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, or anybody else.

You think this is ridiculous but I'll say it again, if you like bad-mouthing this great country, get the hell out!!
I'm not bad-mouthing this country, I'm merely pointing out room for improvement. I'm arguing for inclusiveness and upholding the Constitution, and I'm the one that needs to get the hell out?!
 
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Surpeme courts view

Let us not forget West Virginia State Board of Education V. Barnett

The state law required school children to recite the pledge of allegience
Jehovah Witnesses objected

Courts ruled in favor of Barnet and his Jehovah friends saying the law required students to show support for a specific political idea-thus it violated the first amendment.
 
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*moderatly steamed*


As far as atheists, who says we have to cater to them? It's their problem for living in a country that they are in the vast majority. Wecan't cater to every single person's needs?
who said we had to cater to YOU dick? I dont want a government that says you have to be athiest or in any way promotes it, i just want a government that doesnt FAVOR one side.. got it dick?

You think this is ridiculous but I'll say it again, if you like bad-mouthing this great country, get the hell out!!
and why dont YOU get the hell out? you say that trying to change things is bad mouthing our country? I SAY THAT SITTING ON YOUR ASS AND GOING WITH WHATEVER ANYONE SAYS IS BETRAYING OUR COUNTRY, dick..
there are numerous countries the world over you can go and be a sheep and do whatever your government tells you to do, we live in one of the few where we are allowed to challenge and try to make things better but you call that unpatriotic? fuck you go live in russia.. and you can be a sheep all day.. dick..

I said that you have the right to not say it.
yea and i shouldnt have to sit and be the outcast bcuz my government is holding a mandatory proclamation of being under god..

BTW, when's the last time I've heard you guys say anything positive about the US?
I love my country, I am proud for what it stands and i will be proud to defend it. I am NOT proud to sit idolly by why some right wing jackass picks apart our bill of rights and turns the world against us or turns it into another stronghold for religious zealots... i love my country and fuck you for assuming otherwise...dick..


oh, and by the way... i DO intend on running for public office..
 
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Souldjah,


I'm sure your great use of the English language will suit you well for public office. Words like "Dick" and "Fuck" are guaranteed to get you elected! What a moron.

Can't you come up with anything better. Are you an Atheist or something, is that why you are such bitter man?

Get laid or have a beer or something.

Are you a member of Greenpeace and PETA as well?
 
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i apologize 3 yards, and anyone else offended by that except to that who it was intended for.

im not running for office NOW there buddy so i can still say exactly what i think of someone.

yes, i AM an atheist. and proud of it too.

not a member of green peace or peta, just the army and the american academy of anti-aging medicine.
not a bitter man but what was being spewed is the same bullshit that prevents progressive thinking and lets ppl like rumsfield and cheney have power..
 
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"BS"oldier,

You may have great points but your venomous language leads you not being able to be taken seriously.

I wasn't asking if you were an atheist to ridicule you but to rather see if that is why you were so upset.

We've had a lot of people comment about atheists but everyone who posted was not an atheist until you commented.

Although I did add the PETA and Greenpeace part to jab at you a bit.

Seriously though, if you're thinking about running for office you better learn to bite your tongue a bit more. I can't help but think if you react like this now that you don't react that way in your normal life.
 
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BuckeyeSoldier, apology accepted. Just reign it in a bit. Topics will get "heated" in this forum and that's OK. The open exchange of ideas and opinions is great and I find it stimulating and though provoking. Crossing the line into flamming of others will only limit the openess of discussion and cause folks to be hesitant to post. In the worst case, this is just a message board and everyone can agree to disagree. Thump's a big boy and can handle himself on a forum. I doubt he's overly worried or offended by your post. I highly doubt he will change his posting style (or opinions) because of the post. It's the other folks who are reading and debating on whether they should post or not that this most likely will affect negatively. I would hope that everyone feels they can add their 2 cents without being attacked.
 
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i DO intend on running for public office..
i AM an athiest...

You may want to steer clear of: Massachusetts, Maryland, North and South Carolina, Pennsylvania, Tennesee and Texas based on the info from Woody's link.

I think the logic behind these restrictions must be something like, "If they have no belief in a Supreme Being of some kind then they would have no reason to uphold law and order." Perhaps I'm just "in the box" but I can see their point. If there is no-one in control but us, then why obey when it's in your best interest to disobey and you know you won't get caught? If there is no-one in control but us, why would you ever put someone else's needs above your own?

My dad used to claim to be an athiest (he's backed off that a bit as he's gotten older) but I've never really believed that there wasn't at least a small part of him that said, "but what if?" The tip-off? He's a decent guy, meaning he follows the rules even if he would never get caught. Why would you be decent if this life was it? Look out for number 1!
 
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cant call it said:
Pepsi has a new "patriotic" can coming out with

pictures of the Empire State Bldg. and the Pledge of

Allegiance on them. However, Pepsi left out two little

words on the pledge, "Under God". Pepsi said they did

not want to offend anyone...except Christians, of course.
Fixed it for ya. :wink2:
 
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