Personal Accountability

[muffler dragon]

Frankly, I see a better work ethic and better accountability among young people today than I've seen for years - certainly better than my own (baby-boomer) generation.

It's probably pretty obvious from my comments here that, when I hear people preaching on about other people's "lack of personal accountability," I get a little testy. Most of the people I've listened to who preached that sermon needed to play it back to themselves in the privacy of their own homes - and to start practicing what they preached. Not to suggest, of course, that Jake has this problem.

I hope that my post hadn't prompted part of this response. It was not my intent. And if it did; then I apologize for my poor initial presentation.

 

[DaytonBuck]

Young people today are one step up from a monkey. I knew a guy at tOSU who got an interview with BP as a poli sci major, top of his class type of guy, and decided because he couldn't tie a tie, he'd show up in jeans and collared shirt and be good

 

[buckeyebri]

My dad had a couple of sayings that he used when we were growing up (holy shit I am quoting my dad). One was to pull yourself up by your boot straps and make something of yourself because no one owes you anything. Now my dad was a Marine Corp officer who served under McCarthur in Korea, so he knew the meaning of working hard and serving.

The other quote was if you have clean underwear, clothes on your back and food to eat, then you don't have anything to bitch about. I think this statement in itself says a lot, because I think people believe they deserve to have a certain standard of living whether they work hard for it or not.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

Young people today are one step up from a monkey. I knew a guy at tOSU who got an interview with BP as a poli sci major, top of his class type of guy, and decided because he couldn't tie a tie, he'd show up in jeans and collared shirt and be good

Is he a back stabbing bastard who spreads rumors about someone to his potential employers? Does he have a socially responsible girlfriend in the Eco club?

 

[DaytonBuck]

Is he a back stabbing bastard who spreads rumors about someone to his potential employers? Does he have a socially responsible girlfriend in the Eco club?

He has an irrational hatred of non-union retailers

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

He has an irrational hatred of non-union retailers

Oh so he's one of those guys. I see.

 

[MaxBuck]

...and so we oppose to providing better opportunities for these pupils under any circumstance...

How has anyone "opposed providing better opportunities under any circumstance?" If you choose to use charter schools as your example, you better pick a better one. College may or may not be a scam, but charter schools definitely are.

With respect to providing vouchers for private school education generally, that is simply another income-redistribution scheme. It baffles me how conservatives, who generally find such schemes anathema, support this one. You'd almost think they support it only so they can further undermine the public schools, except that is a pretty cynical conclusion.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

How has anyone "opposed providing better opportunities under any circumstance?" If you choose to use charter schools as your example, you better pick a better one. College may or may not be a scam, but charter schools definitely are.

With respect to providing vouchers for private school education generally, that is simply another income-redistribution scheme. It baffles me how conservatives, who generally find such schemes anathema, support this one. You'd almost think they support it only so they can further undermine the public schools, except that is a pretty cynical conclusion.

I'm not proposing charter schools. I don't even know what those are. I simply find the positions A. that we have to provide better education to pupils from economically disadvantaged families and B. that we are opposed to sending any aid so that those pupils can attend better schools to be irreconcilable. It's like saying we want to save the injured but we are also opposed to taking him into the hospital.

 

[MaxBuck]

I'm not proposing charter schools. I don't even know what those are. I simply find the positions A. that we have to provide better education to pupils from economically disadvantaged families and B. that we are opposed to sending any aid so that those pupils can attend better schools to be irreconcilable. It's like saying we want to save the injured but we are also opposed to taking him into the hospital.

Unless and until we find a way to improve public inner-city schools (suburban schools are, by and large, just fine in the US), all $$ we use to "aid" students in attending private schools will just leave the students who stay in worse shape.

I guess these are just two very different points of view from people both of whom seek ways of improving educational opportunities for inner-city youth. The real answers, I fear, are not going to be either easy or cheap. :(

 

[Taosman]

The fact that we don't allow unbridled capitalism to enslave workers into a system of working for a non-living wage, or that we oppose draining the cream of underfunded, poorly performing public schools and their accompanying per student funding for insertion into private often religious schools is not "puzzling" at all.

The "school voucher" plan is a philosophy that ignores the larger problem of wretched public school performance (which to be fair is more of a cultural/societal problem) and instead focuses on a high performing few, with the whole idea being a cover for using public tax dollars to fund private religious schools and skirt the separation of church and state wall.

Not singling out anyone or saying that you share those views.

Agree completely.

Our public schools are the foundation of our society. We have let them deteriorate by playing politics with education. It's time to set the ideology that political/religious beliefs come before the country aside. Electing leaders that show personal responsibility and holding them accountable is a good first step.

 

[buckeyebri]

The "school voucher" plan is a philosophy that ignores the larger problem of wretched public school performance (which to be fair is more of a cultural/societal problem) and instead focuses on a high performing few, with the whole idea being a cover for using public tax dollars to fund private religious schools and skirt the separation of church and state wall.

Not singling out anyone or saying that you share those views.

I have paid since Kindergarten to send my daughter to a private Catholic school. I did this not from the standpoint of the Catholic education (my wife not I was raised Catholic) but from the standpoint of the educational system itself. If you or your children have ever attended a private school you understand what I mean. The folks who teach at these schools are there to teach, because they certainly don't earn much. They are also there, because there is a dedication to providing an environment that promotes learning via the administration and the parents and thus accountability.

While it would have been great to take my tax dollars to pay for this education utilizing a voucher system I think this would be disastrous to both the private and public school systems. When we were living in Michigan about 5 years ago there was a push for vouchers that would allow districts whose test scores were below 'x' to give there students vouchers to go to private schools. My father-in-law thought this was great because kids could have come to the rural Catholic school and helped boost the number of attendees to a dying school. Big problem was there was only one school in the 'x' score category that was anywhere close and no method to get the kids there.

Having friends teaching in the public school system and parents that taught in the system, as well, the biggest issue is there is no accountability for the students with/from their PARENTS. Some where along the line parents have, in many cases, become apathetic towards the educational institution. Kids are not taught respect and personal accountability.

Full circle here is that giving vouchers to private schools is not going to change the societal accountability issue that exists with many families today.

 

[mooktarr]

We need to improve the public schools true, but we can pump all the money we want to and it won't mean diddly without parental backing of standards.
Most people on welfare for life won't do this or they wouldn't be on welfare to begin with.

 

[BigWoof31]

It's time to set the ideology that political/religious beliefs come before the country aside.

An excellent suggestion. We can start by putting "politically correct/social justice" education programs aside.

It would be great if current students were taught how the government currently operates - rather than how it should work for a small percentage of people.

 

[Bucklion]

The biggest problem with the education system (and the downfall of "No Child Left Behind") is the inability to hold schools "accountable". OK, a school is failing. What do we do? Take money away and close it? Where will the students go then? Most inner city and even suburban schools are overcrowded as it is, and there's already a shortage of good teachers. Do we throw MORE money at a failing school? This seems perhaps logical to send more resources to places that are failing, but it is counterintuitive to do so in terms of promoting success. How can we reward failure by throwing MORE money at it, and how can we prevent failure WITHOUT doing so? This is the no-win quandry there seems to be no way out of.

 

[mooktarr]

It doesn't take any money to teach a child how to be responsible for thier actions, that only needs parental and teacher guidance.
All the rest will follow.
Too many parents want the schools to "raise" their kids. What BS.