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Personal Accountability

Bucklion;1409429; said:
The biggest problem with the education system (and the downfall of "No Child Left Behind") is the inability to hold schools "accountable". OK, a school is failing. What do we do? Take money away and close it? Where will the students go then? Most inner city and even suburban schools are overcrowded as it is, and there's already a shortage of good teachers. Do we throw MORE money at a failing school? This seems perhaps logical to send more resources to places that are failing, but it is counterintuitive to do so in terms of promoting success. How can we reward failure by throwing MORE money at it, and how can we prevent failure WITHOUT doing so? This is the no-win quandry there seems to be no way out of.

Most public schools now are being judged and their financial well being determined by their standardized test scores. A friend of mine who teaches in an inner city public school says she spends most of her time teaching the kids how to take the standardized test so they don't lose the money from the State.

I agree that throwing more money at a failing school doesn't make much sense, but I don't believe that teaching kids how to take a test as a majority of their education make sense either. What happened to teaching people the skills they needed to succeed and how to be able to think there way through problems???
 
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buckeyebri;1409461; said:
What happened to teaching people the skills they needed to succeed and how to be able to think there way through problems???

I agree with this too. One of my big problems with NCLB is its insistence on keeping all children in a standard academic program. My dad is an assistant principal at in suburban Atlanta.

He hears alot of requests from students who'd like a more technical program. They really don't give a crap about chemistry - but they'd love to learn plumbing skills or have a program built around auto mechanics.
 
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mooktarr;1409459; said:
It doesn't take any money to teach a child how to be responsible for thier actions, that only needs parental and teacher guidance.
All the rest will follow.
Too many parents want the schools to "raise" their kids. What BS.

Well that may be true (and I totally agree about some parents wanting schools to raise their kids), but we all know we can't legislate parental responsibility, and it's awfully hard to get dedicated teachers to go to the inner cities and appalachia. The problem isn't going to go away on its own, and there are no easy solutions.
 
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buckeyebri;1409461; said:
Most public schools now are being judged and their financial well being determined by their standardized test scores. A friend of mine who teaches in an inner city public school says she spends most of her time teaching the kids how to take the standardized test so they don't lose the money from the State.

I agree that throwing more money at a failing school doesn't make much sense, but I don't believe that teaching kids how to take a test as a majority of their education make sense either. What happened to teaching people the skills they needed to succeed and how to be able to think there way through problems???

Oh I agree completely (and my late mother, who was a teacher, did too). It reminds me of the line from Mr. Holland's Opus: "Keep this up and the kids won't have anything to read or write about". A well-rounded, skill-based education is going the way of the dinosaur (or the dodo bird for all you hardcore creationists out there :wink2:)
 
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MaxBuck;1408312; said:
Frankly, I see a better work ethic and better accountability among young people today than I've seen for years - certainly better than my own (baby-boomer) generation.

Level of work ethic is debatable, but the research on the millennial generation (i.e. those born between 1982 and 2001) almost unanimously indicates that personal accountability is extremely low among this generation when compared to others.

The good news, if you buy into Howe and Strauss' theory of a generational cycle, is that you find the same lack of personal responsiblity among the Great-Depression/WWII generation prior to those events occurring. The bad news is that an event that threatens the security of the country at the same level as those two is required for the change to occur. Again, if you buy into the theory.
 
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buckeyegrad;1409641; said:
Level of work ethic is debatable, but the research on the millennial generation (i.e. those born between 1982 and 2001) almost unanimously indicates that personal accountability is extremely low among this generation when compared to others.

The good news, if you buy into Howe and Strauss' theory of a generational cycle, is that you find the same lack of personal responsiblity among the Great-Depression/WWII generation prior to those events occurring. The bad news is that an event that threatens the security of the country at the same level as those two is required for the change to occur. Again, if you buy into the theory.
Very interesting stuff. I'm curious, grad, can you enlighten us as to what metrics are used to characterize "personal accountability?" Is this the result of tests taken by psychology test subjects or something else? (I find social science research fascinating.)
 
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MaxBuck;1408448; said:
Unless and until we find a way to improve public inner-city schools (suburban schools are, by and large, just fine in the US), all $$ we use to "aid" students in attending private schools will just leave the students who stay in worse shape.

I guess these are just two very different points of view from people both of whom seek ways of improving educational opportunities for inner-city youth. The real answers, I fear, are not going to be either easy or cheap. :(
Honestly, a good way to improve inner city schools would be to identify the 3 or 4 worst "problem children" in every class, yank them, and place them in a lockdown/juvenile school, w/ orphanage facilites if necessary for kids whose parents are crackheads or grossly irresponsible. Removing just a couple of idiots from any classroom can making an amazing difference-it just isn't politically correct to admit that the die is cast for some kids by junior high, and that they need either intensive, indvidualized attention, or a boot camp atmosphere.
I also agree that standardized testing is waaaaaay overdone, and is indeed harmful to the learning process. It seems the state is too lazy to hold schools accountable for curriculum standards in any way other than standardized testing.
 
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stxbuck;1409921; said:
Honestly, a good way to improve inner city schools would be to identify the 3 or 4 worst "problem children" in every class, yank them, and place them in a lockdown/juvenile school, w/ orphanage facilites if necessary for kids whose parents are crackheads or grossly irresponsible. Removing just a couple of idiots from any classroom can making an amazing difference-it just isn't politically correct to admit that the die is cast for some kids by junior high...
Sounds like a good idea! Now our task is to find some PC way to sell the idea to the public. Seriously, almost anything can be sold if the marketing is good enough (pet rocks, Barney, Anna Nicole Smith, etc.).
 
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in this country there is no consequence to action. don't matter what you do or how serious your crime, the chances of your punishment being anything resembling the wrong you committed are slim to none. especially at the higher levels of society where you are typically rewarded lavishly for wronging others. the housing market and peanut butter fiasco both leap to mind. until we start imposing serious and meaningful punishment on those who wrong others we as a society will continue down the road to complete collapse.

we have created a society that cares only for their own individual gain. personal accountability is for suckers.
 
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stxbuck;1409921; said:
Honestly, a good way to improve inner city schools would be to identify the 3 or 4 worst "problem children" in every class, yank them, and place them in a lockdown/juvenile school, w/ orphanage facilites if necessary for kids whose parents are crackheads or grossly irresponsible. Removing just a couple of idiots from any classroom can making an amazing difference-it just isn't politically correct to admit that the die is cast for some kids by junior high, and that they need either intensive, indvidualized attention, or a boot camp atmosphere.
I also agree that standardized testing is waaaaaay overdone, and is indeed harmful to the learning process. It seems the state is too lazy to hold schools accountable for curriculum standards in any way other than standardized testing.
Make the (a ) parent go to school with the kid to be sure he behaves .
 
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martinss01;1421992; said:
in this country there is no consequence to action. don't matter what you do or how serious your crime, the chances of your punishment being anything resembling the wrong you committed are slim to none. especially at the higher levels of society where you are typically rewarded lavishly for wronging others. the housing market and peanut butter fiasco both leap to mind. until we start imposing serious and meaningful punishment on those who wrong others we as a society will continue down the road to complete collapse.

we have created a society that cares only for their own individual gain. personal accountability is for suckers.
I'm sure I've read a post on this board that was more rife with oversimplification and hyperbole than this one. I just haven't gone back to find it yet; it's been a busy day.
 
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MaxBuck;1422224; said:
I'm sure I've read a post on this board that was more rife with oversimplification and hyperbole than this one. I just haven't gone back to find it yet; it's been a busy day.

Hyperbole? What? There has never, EVER been any sort of hyperbole in the history of this great board. This board, the greatest in the history of the internet. This board, the best website on the internet ever.
 
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Bucklion;1423379; said:
Hyperbole? What? There has never, EVER been any sort of hyperbole in the history of this great board. This board, the greatest in the history of the internet. This board, the best website on the internet ever.

Infinity +1
 
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Personally - I have always avoided using oversimplification and hyperbole in every post I've ever posted to win every argument here - as they were always wrong due to not having the good facts.
 
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