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Picture Help

Discussion in 'Buckeye Football' started by BretGoBlue, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. BretGoBlue

    BretGoBlue Wolverine Spy

    I can't believe I'm defending you guys over this but two of my roomates and one of my roomate's dad argued with me for a solid half hour last night that Miami got screwed on that PI.

    I argued that you guys won the game legit and that it shouldn't have even gone to OT but they still don't think I know what I'm talking about.

    Can somebody post the picture of A. Gamble being held on a pass that would have let you run out the clock and B. That picture of the PI play from the wide angle with the ball circled in the air and the obvious interference.

    Thanks.
     
  2. osugrad21

    osugrad21 Capo Regime Staff Member

    HERE is all you need...

    I'm still waiting on the Woodson clip you promised me last year...the one handed INT vs scUM St.
     
  3. BretGoBlue

    BretGoBlue Wolverine Spy

    I'll have it soon

    I just copied the entire '97 season onto DVD and can now do it next time I'm home in Ohio.

    Thanks.
     
  4. osugrad21

    osugrad21 Capo Regime Staff Member

    That is still one of the most incredible displays of athleticism I have ever seen....
     
  5. MililaniBuckeye

    MililaniBuckeye The satanic soulless freight train that is Ohio St Staff Member Tech Admin

  6. BuckeyeNation27

    BuckeyeNation27 Goal Goal USA! Staff Member

    dont forget on that play where gambles jersey gets ripped off....he still caught the ball and they said he didnt. if either call gets made....first down.
     
  7. JohnnyCockfight

    JohnnyCockfight Beer is God's proof that he loves us.

    That is a glorious website, and bless the person who put it together.

    I also think this article by Dennis Dodd will help you Brett. It gives a good perspective on why so many incorrectly thought the pass interference call was wrong, by a sportswriter not known to be in the good graces of the Buckeye faithful.

    Notes: Months later, 'Canes interference call looks right

    July 16, 2003
    By Dennis Dodd
    SportsLine.com Senior Writer


    Terry Porter was right.

    Six and a half months after the most controversial call of the Bowl Championship Series era, the Big 12 field judge has been vindicated.

    That's not going to please Miami players, fans and coaches who are still grinding their teeth over Porter's decision to signal pass interference against Miami defensive back Glenn Sharpe in the Fiesta Bowl.
    *
    Earlier this year Big 12 commissioner Kevin Weiberg said game films had been reviewed and that, in fact, Porter had made the right call. The Big Ten supervisor of officials, who is used by the NCAA to assign officials for bowl games, concurred this week.

    The problem is, few people saw the actual infraction. All the replays focused on Sharpe jumping for a ball in the end zone intended for Ohio State receiver Chris Gamble.

    The penalty occurred on fourth-and-3 from the Miami 5 in the first overtime of Ohio State's 31-24 victory. At the line of scrimmage, Sharpe tried to "jam" Gamble and impeded his progress. When the official who apparently had the call in the end zone didn't make one, Porter came rushing from the back of the end zone to throw the flag four or five seconds after the play had ended.

    "The timing of the flag might have looked not good," said Dave Parry, the Big Ten supervisor of officials, who works with the NCAA. "Terry was probably trying to be very thorough. He signaled a push for a defensive pass interference, then a signal for holding. There is a time lapse there. When the camera showed it they didn't see the line of scrimmage. They saw the downfield play about 7 or 8 yards."

    Porter has been the subject of Miami fans' message board rants for months since the call. Miami's stance seems to be that while the call might have been right, it was inexcusable that Porter waited those pregnant seconds before throwing the flag after running from the back of the end zone.

    "I replayed it in my mind," Porter said after the game. "I wanted to make double-sure that it was the right call."

    Without saying it was the case, Parry said this week there could have been a "small, small little downgrade" in Porter's evaluation for shoddy mechanics in waiting so long to make the call. Crews are assigned to the national championship game on a rotating basis. The crews are "all-stars" made up of the best official at each position in that conference.

    A Big 12 crew was supposed to do the 2002 Rose Bowl but was delayed a year when Nebraska made the game. That allowed Porter and his mates a chance at the Fiesta Bowl. What bothered Porter and the Big 12 was a report that two letters of apology had been sent to conference schools after games Porter worked.

    The Big 12 was upset by the report. Porter, a Stillwater, Okla., food broker, denied that was the case.

    "I ain't talking about (the call)," Porter said brusquely this week when reached by phone. "You can call the Big 12 office."

    Big 12 supervisor of officials Tim Millis, an NFL official himself, said this year that Porter would be NFL material if he were younger. Porter is in his mid-50s. Millis was out of the office this week and could not be reached.

    "I talked to Terry about it," Parry said. "His view was the snuggle (contact) was right at the line of scrimmage. (Sharpe) took (Gamble's) shoulder away from him as he tried to get away. That's why he went with holding."

    Jay Hansen, sports editor of the Mansfield (Ohio) News-Journal, was one of the few lay persons with a closeup look at the play. While everyone else was concentrating on the two players in the end zone, Hansen was watching the line of scrimmage from the floor of the Fiesta Bowl.

    "From what I saw there was definitely contact," said Hansen, who had come down from the press box and was on the sideline near the end zone when the call was made.

    "I thought it should have been holding. Gamble caught the defensive back on his heels. I was concentrating on Gamble. Definitely, in my opinion, there was a penalty on the play."

    The view from South Florida is that the call cost the Hurricanes the national championship. Not even close. During that drive and before the call, Miami's vaunted defense allowed Ohio State to convert a fourth-and-14. A stop there would have won Miami its second consecutive national championship.

    Even after the controversial call, it took the Buckeyes two plays to score from the Miami 1 in the first overtime to tie it. Then, after trailing 31-24 in the second overtime, Miami had four cracks at the tying (or eventual winning) score from the Ohio State 2.

    On fourth down, Ken Dorsey crumbled in the face of a withering Ohio State rush and the upset was achieved. Porter was a stand-up guy, explaining the call after the game.

    In retrospect, Miami, an 11-point favorite, had plenty of chances to put the game away and in the end was outplayed by an Ohio State team that was better prepared. And whether it takes five seconds or five minutes, they teach officials, above all, to get the call right. Porter did.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2005
  8. BuckeyeTrail

    BuckeyeTrail Michael Jenkins...does it again!!!

    this could end up being a long post, so bare with me.

    there are several common misconceptions about the call, and about the game itself.

    here is what happened that caused "the call" to be so controversial

    - on the replay, dan fouts yells "bad call! bad call!"

    why did he say this? it's not because he "hates" the buckeyes. on the replay, you can only see the miami defender (sharpe's?) left hand. YOU CANNOT SEE HIS RIGHT HAND, AND YOU CANNOT SEE THE LEFT SIDE OF GAMBLE'S BODY. THAT is where the contact took place. On the replay, Fouts watched as Sharpe appeared to cover Gamble fairly. As the ball went past them, Sharpe then makes obvious, but legal, contact. Because the flag was late, Fouts assumed that the ref made the call based on this late contact. This, obviously, would have been a bad call, and that is what Fouts was reacting to.

    - the fact that the call was late, and the fact that it came from a ref farther from the play than the ref who immediately signalled incomplete, is probably the biggest factor in the controversy. They think that, "how can it be interference? the ref that was right on top of the play immediately signalled incomplete, while the ref that was far away made a late call. the close ref was probably right."

    but, contrary to popular belief, this is false. the close ref was responsible for a different part of the field. at the last moment he saw gamble and sharpe as the ball whizzed by and signaled incomplete. the back judge, who made the call, was watching gamble and sharpe THE ENTIRE TIME, FROM THE MOMENT THE BALL WAS SNAPPED.

    There is an excellent article, written by a referee, that explains it very clearly. I don't know if it's still on the web, hopefully someone can dig it up. I think it was in a Tulsa, Oklahoma paper.

    - the biggest misconception, and the biggest hypocrisy, is how people contend that osu was lucky to receive that call and that miami "got screwed". nobody remembers the 3rd down play with 2 minutes left in regulation. If OSU completes the pass for the first down, they would have been able to run the clock down to a very small amount, and then pooch the punt out of bounds. miami would have had very little time to move the ball a lot of yards; the odds would have been slim to none on them being able to tie the game.

    on that play, gamble is CLEARLY held, multiple times. there is no point in even debating that. furthermore, he actually catches the ball inbounds (there is another website that has pictures to prove this, although it is extremely borderline). So the refs missed 2 calls on one play (one obvious, one difficult); if they had gotten just one of the calls right, OSU would have had a 1st down and miami would have been at death's door. Instead, Miami lucked out and was given a chance to tie the game, which they did (thanks to a punt return aided by a questionable block, but for the sake of argument we'll assume it was a legal return). OSU then lucked out (though not to the degree that miami lucked out; in my mind I believe that sharpe technically committed PI, but it was minor and we were lucky that it was called) and was able to force double OT. The 2 situations EVEN OUT. To say that miami got screwed out of winning in the first OT, while failing to acknowledge that OSU got screwed out of winning in regulation, is incredibly hypocritcal and contradictory.

    The problem, of course, is that no one remembers that 3rd down play. The announcers noted the missed call, but quickly forgot about and moved on to the game, as a potentially exciting 2 minute drill was about to unfold. The 4th down ovetime call was obviously much more dramatic. But just because it was dramatic, DOES NOT MAKE IT ANY MORE IMPORTANT IN THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME THAN THE MISSED 3RD DOWN CALL IN REGULATION.

    Unfortunately, 99.9 percent of the country will only remember that one call. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. Almost all non-OSU fans (bretgoblue excluded) feel that miami got screwed, because they only know a very, very small part of the whole story.

    In the 2nd OT, miami received a lucky PI call that set up 1st and goal at the 2 (gamble did impede johnson, but the pass was clearly well overthrown and uncatchable). But they could not capitalize on the opportunity.

    The game that I like to point to is Kent St vs Pitt, Sweet 16 in 2002. i believe it is a tied game in the final minute. antonio gates scores a basket despite a guy being all over him, and the whistle blows. obviously, it's a foul with the chance for a 3 pt play, right? Wrong! Inexplicibably, the refs called a jump ball, with the possession arrow going to Pitt. It was a terrible call. In one moment kent st went from looking like they were about to emerge with a clutch victory, to having to come up big on defense just to force overtime.

    Gates was visibly upset with the call, but he immediately calmed down. they forced OT and went to work, eventually dispatching Pitt in a great team victory.

    Note the difference between that and Miami.

    Gates and co. fought hard the entire game. They didn't let a bad call demoralize them. They OVERCAME.

    Miami had a million opportunites to overcome. They didn't. They still are a great team, but on that fateful night, Ohio State was better.

    After that punt return, they had 1st and 10 inside the OSU 30, with 2 minutes to go. PLENTY of time to score the game-winning TD. But we stuffed a run, sacked dorsey with just a 4 man rush, and made them go conservative on 3rd down. That was their chance, right there, to win the game. They couldn't.

    4th and 14. We only have one receiver. Everybody should know that we are looking for Jenkins. We have a QB that couldn't "throw change into a toll booth receptacle" (Mike Biatchi of the orlando sentinel's words, not mine). They have the supposed best pass defense in the country and a secondary loaded with florida speed. We are a "simple" big ten team incapable of throwing a forward pass. Yet we manage to convert. That was their chance, right there, to win the game. An EXCELLENT chance. An UNBELIEVABLE chance. But they couldn't shut the door.

    1st and goal at the 2. FOUR CHANCES to move the ball a lousy six feet. Most teams that get "screwed" don't get that chance to make up for it. But here was Miami's chance. They could easily force a 3rd OT, and prove then that they were the better team. But they couldn't do it. They couldn't punch it in. End of story.
     
  9. HabaneroBuck

    HabaneroBuck Non-Nike Design

    We smashed Miami's face in all game. The only travesty would have been if they actually won back-to-back championships that night.

    Where are the pictures of Gamble getting his jersey ripped on third down, catching the ball, and having it ruled an incomplete pass? Those were great pics.
     
  10. LightningRod

    LightningRod Senior

    The field judge was standing on the goal line with the responsibility in a spread formation for watching the inside receiver (on this play, it was Michael Jenkins) on his side of the field. The back judge had the responsibility for the outside receiver (on this play it was Gamble). The back judge originally had the call right as holding, but becuse the holding continued after the ball was thrown in the area of the hold, the call changes to pass interference. The official made the correct call.
     
  11. wdg01

    wdg01 Freshman

    Well I know this is a few days old but nobody posted a picture of Gamble being held that should have let us run out the clock.


    [​IMG]
     
  12. BrutusBobcat

    BrutusBobcat Icon and Entertainer

    I love reading all of these articles and opinions -- you guys did a great job.

    One fact that will never change no matter how much people argue about it: the big crystal football went to the WHAC and not to Coral Gables. End of story. :biggrin:
     
  13. MililaniBuckeye

    MililaniBuckeye The satanic soulless freight train that is Ohio St Staff Member Tech Admin

    wdg01, here's a few more:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. jwinslow

    jwinslow A MAN OF BETRAYED JUSTICE Staff Member Tourney Pick'em Champ

    This might be a little easier to send around to people (I used mili's picks and shrunk it a little):
    [​IMG]
     
  15. OK_Buckeye81

    OK_Buckeye81 Newbie

    AJ Hawk, the only player with a shot at Roscoe Parrish on the final punt return for Miami that set up their game tying field goal, also got blocked in the back and they didn't call that.
     

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