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QB Dwayne Haskins Jr. (All B1G, B1G OPOY, Silver Football, Rose Bowl MVP, R.I.P.)

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DaddyBigBucks said:
Upon further reflection, this just blows me away.

This was the first time ever that a credible opponent had time to game plan for him and try to confuse him. Gary Patterson might be one of the five most respected defensive minds in college football. He had a crack at Dwayne in the youngster's 3rd-ever start and did his best to confuse him. Dwayne produced a very good efficiency rating anyway.

Preseason, many were calling Trace McSorely the best QB in the B1G. Dwayne did better against TCU than McSorely has averaged against App St, Pitt and Kent St. ...in his 3rd-ever start. ...while dealing with low snaps all night.
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Yep I agree. He’s the real deal and I would add that his first two starts he dealt with unfavorable weather. Currently Saturday is looking perfect so can’t wait to see how he spins it...
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
He was a galactic long-shot as it was, and now with him missing at least a full game's worth of production...
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Yeah, there's always a token defensive player or two, but there's a reason only one defensive player (undeservedly) won it...and he got a boost from returns and moonlighting on offense. If any defensive player has ever truly deserved it, it was Ndonkeykong Suh. He was, IMO, the true best player in the country that year. But Ingram got it because Bammer was at the beginning of their resurgence and, well, Alabama.

Of course, the media tried to recreate Woodson with Peppers, but that whole campaign was fucking laughable and did nothing but prove that pure hype can get you to New York.
 
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dragurd said:
I'd feel better about their projections if Alex Hornibrook wasn't somehow their top rated passer in the Big 10. How, why, did you use your eyes?
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Small sample size. It'll work itself out over 12 games. One of the dings against Haskins by PFF's model is that they don't look at counting stats, they actually grade every player on every play. By that model, Haskins doesn't get that much credit for big gains on touch-pass jet sweeps or tunnel screens to guys like Dixon or Parris. That alone wipes three of his passing TDs off the books.

That's not a defense of PFF, but their stats offer a context that tries to normalize player value to a team the way Bill James and Billy Beane changed MLB 20 years ago with looking at WAR, OPS, run creation, and run prevention. It is a companion to traditional counting stats and scouting. PFF's advanced analytic advocacy should not be considered a complete replacement.

Obviously, in the wrong hands, analytics alone also leads you to erroneous conclusions so far down the spectrum the opposite way you begin rationalizing Billy Hamilton and Jabrill Peppers are good players and should be on your professional roster as everyday contributors.
 
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Dryden said:
Small sample size. It'll work itself out over 12 games. One of the dings against Haskins by PFF's model is that they don't look at counting stats, they actually grade every player on every play. By that model, Haskins doesn't get that much credit for big gains on touch-pass jet sweeps or tunnel screens to guys like Dixon or Parris. That alone wipes three of his passing TDs off the books.

That's not a defense of PFF, but their stats offer a context that tries to normalize player value to a team the way Bill James and Billy Beane changed MLB 20 years ago with looking at WAR, OPS, run creation, and run prevention. It is a companion to traditional counting stats and scouting. PFF's advanced analytic advocacy should not be considered a complete replacement.

Obviously, in the wrong hands, analytics alone also leads you to erroneous conclusions so far down the spectrum the opposite way you begin rationalizing Billy Hamilton and Jabrill Peppers are good players and should be on your professional roster as everyday contributors.
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Analytics gave us Peppers and Coleman.
That said, great insight and good to know that something is out there which grades differently.
What they really need is to grade decision making of a QB.
Then match that up against their accuracy... and start categorizing the types of throws QBs have demonstrated similar a MLB pitcher's repertoire.
The idea isnt to give 1 singular all-purpose grade ... but a multi-dimensional analysis where different attributes are isolated from each other.
 
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Dryden said:
Small sample size. It'll work itself out over 12 games. One of the dings against Haskins by PFF's model is that they don't look at counting stats, they actually grade every player on every play. By that model, Haskins doesn't get that much credit for big gains on touch-pass jet sweeps or tunnel screens to guys like Dixon or Parris. That alone wipes three of his passing TDs off the books.

That's not a defense of PFF, but their stats offer a context that tries to normalize player value to a team the way Bill James and Billy Beane changed MLB 20 years ago with looking at WAR, OPS, run creation, and run prevention. It is a companion to traditional counting stats and scouting. PFF's advanced analytic advocacy should not be considered a complete replacement.

Obviously, in the wrong hands, analytics alone also leads you to erroneous conclusions so far down the spectrum the opposite way you begin rationalizing Billy Hamilton and Jabrill Peppers are good players and should be on your professional roster as everyday contributors.
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It's hard to watch Alex Hornibrook play and think, yep, that was clearly the best the league had to offer at QB in week 2. But I realize these are unflinching formulas.

It wasn't like Alex had a lot of passes in week 2. He was 8-11 for 148 yds with 1 TD 1 INT (-7 yds rushing)

Meanwhile Tate was 10-10 for 121 yds 1 TD 0 INT and 95 yds 1 TD on the ground (almost 12 ypc)

 
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Why in the world are people not talking about Dwayne Haskins’ Heisman chances?

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I admit that I am not a very smart man. I don’t always understand all of the advanced analytics and “Moneyball” philosophies that have become so engrained in our sports discussion over the past decade or so. However, seeing regular posts from national media organizations— like the one above— touting Heisman Trophy contenders, but not including Ohio State’s Dwayne Haskins is utterly baffling to me. Perhaps there is some sort of data set that my tiny mind just can’t grasp.

Now, I don’t subscribe to the conspiracy theories that ESPN and other sports networks and outlets hate Ohio State. One, because they all employ at least two or three former Buckeyes as on-air talent, and two, at their core, they are businesses, and as evidenced by the fact that the OSU vs. TCU game from this past weekend was the most watched broadcast of the season, it would be bad business to go out of their way to turn off Buckeye fans.

Entire article: https://www.landgrantholyland.com/2018/9/19/17879062/ohio-state-news-dwayne-haskins-heisman-trophy

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OSU Football History Quiz:

Name all of the games in Ohio State history in which the passing game performed this well for a half against a legitimate defense. Take all the time you need.



DaddyBigBucks said:
Dwayne Haskins -- 2nd Half vs TCU

Comp_____ATT_____Yards_____TD_____INT_____Pass Efficiency
__8_______10______148_______2______0________270.32


I believe the phrase you're looking for is "Holy Crap"
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DaddyBigBucks said:
Dwayne Haskins -- After TCU took an 8-point lead:

Comp_____ATT_____Yards_____TD_____INT_____Pass Efficiency
__7_______8_______145_______2______0________322.25



Don't bother looking for a phrase to describe that. The English language doesn't have one.​
Click to expand...
 
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DaddyBigBucks said:
OSU Football History Quiz:

Name all of the games in Ohio State history in which the passing game performed this well for a half against a legitimate defense. Take all the time you need.
Click to expand...

Spoiler:

If you’re tempted to look up the top single-game performances, I’ll spare you the trouble.

  1. John Borton vs WSU 1952
  2. Tony Curcillo vs Iowa 1951
  3. Craig Krenzel vs SJSU 2002
  4. Troy Smith vs MSU 2005 (kids are playing their tails off...)
  5. Todd Boeckman vs NW 2007
  6. Bobby Hoying vs PU 1994
  7. Art Schlichter vs Ill 1980
  8. Joe Germaine vs Ill 1996
  9. Cardale Jones vs Wiscy 2014
  10. J.T. Barrett vs Navy 2014
  11. J.T. Barrett vs NJSU 2015
  12. Art Schlichter vs ASU 1980
  13. Jim Karsatos vs NW 1985
  14. J.T. Barrett vs MD 2014
  15. Mike Tomczak vs Ore 1983

That, for the most part, is a list of abominations that could scarcely be called defenses. The first we come to that you might think had a pulse was 1996 Illinois, which was only one year removed from their 1995 defense which everyone thought was good until Orlando Pace and Eddie George destroyed them utterly. The closest thing to a good defense that I see on the list is 2014 Wiscy in the B1G CG.

So IMHO, Cardale Jones’ post-season performances are in the discussion. I think we also have to consider JTB’s great night in East Lansing in 2014. I’m hard pressed to find anything else that compares to Haskins’ 2nd half against the Frogs.

EDIT: Troy vs TTUN in ‘06 is in the discussion as well. At worst I think Saturday night’s 2nd half is top-5, all-time.
 
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