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QB Dwayne Haskins Jr. (All B1G, B1G OPOY, Silver Football, Rose Bowl MVP, R.I.P.)

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Best Buckeye said:
Let me start this off by saying that I think Haskins is a tremendous passer and talent. I also think he isn't as developed overall as a game QB.
I'm thinking we HAVE to be able to run the ball with Haskins. Now it's entirely probable that he has always been able to win games with his arm, No reason not to be able to do that and have the career he has had. But now he's in college football and the team has to be able to run.
The pros need a run game too and if Haskins can't develop his program into a QB that encompasses the run right along with his tremendous passing talents then he probably won't enjoy a long pro career.

At this point in time he is listed as 8th or 9th in the Heisman and there are 6 QB's ahead of him. Maybe 4 will be drafted ahead of him, so where would he go in the draft. Certainly not in the top 5.

He has to learn to get rid of the ball fast. I think he gets rushed at times and makes some errant passes. Think about Clemson's rush. I also think he needs to learn to stay poised under a rush.

Then again maybe I don't know shit.
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What do Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, et. al. do to "develop his program into a QB that encompasses the run" ?? What does that even mean?
The issue clearly lies with coaching; especially Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator.
And agree with BN27's point about heisman below.

BuckeyeNation27 said:
Heisman QB lists is not the best way to guess where somebody will be drafted.

I don't get the criticism of not getting rid of the ball fast. A huge majority of his passes are short. Too many, lately IMO. I think he's being undersold here by a ton. I'm going to be surprised if he's not a top 10 pick and a top 2 QB taken. But I also thought Saquon would drop, so maybe I don't know shit either.
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Teams - especially the bad ones that serially draft high - are very susceptible to hype and likely at the top of the draft b/c their scouting generally sucked in the 5 previous iterations.
So it's rarely a good idea to count on draft stock falling regardless of the film when media hype is so over the top -- like it was for Barkley. The next Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, and Emmitt Smith in 1 body.
Nonetheless, his NFL production vindicates what we thought -- good RB worth 1 big play a game; not elite / Top5 material.

sparcboxbuck said:
Ummm... none of us know shit. That's why we don't get paid for our opinions or our coaching (in)abilities. Best we are is modestly informed speculators.
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Collectively, I'd say this board is a lot smarter than a lot of NFL front offices. At least in terms of identifying talent compared to those teams that draft in top10 for years on end.
 
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sparcboxbuck said:
Here's the rub: attribution. You attribute the issues with the run game to the QB. Everyone else sees it for what it is, a combination of scheme and skills not being in alignment.

And for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that we've not run many read / option plays this year. The issue has been with the RPO and the OL being caught in the DMZ not knowing if they are blocking to protect a passer or blocking for a running play. If you're going to find fault somewhere, I'd not be looking at the kids. I'd be looking at the sidelines at position coaches and coordinators who are calling things that the players aren't ready to execute consistently.
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The O in RPO stands for... Option so thats part of what I mean.

What you aren't getting is I agree. No reason why we can't run the ball with Dwayne and I also think its due to talent/scheme not being utilized.

My point? If we are going to continue running options and reads with Dwayne then do so with Tate. If we are going to call an offense meant for a running QB then we need to play Tate more.
 
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Just to clarify, Players grow up in certain team philosophies, ie. running team, passing team, balanced team etc. Obviously DH grew up in a passing team and so he has a mind set that mirrors that. While that is great to a certain point it leaves him lacking as to a run team mind set. So that is where he needs development in the college game so that it would project in his whole career.
Everybody who thinks we lost to Purdue because we couldn't run the ball raise your hand.
Not many Pro QB's win consistantly without running the ball.
Here's a good question, If the draft were held today where would he be drafted? Please explain why he would go ahead of the other QB's
 
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bukIpower said:
The O in RPO stands for... Option so thats part of what I mean.

What you aren't getting is I agree. No reason why we can't run the ball with Dwayne and I also think its due to talent/scheme not being utilized.

My point? If we are going to continue running options and reads with Dwayne then do so with Tate. If we are going to call an offense meant for a running QB then we need to play Tate more.
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Seriously? Thanks for helping us unwashed masses understand that they are both option plays.

What you aren't getting is that regardless of who we put at QB it's going to be a college kid who is not going to be perfect. You have shown for at least consecutive seasons that you can't be happy with our team. You keep complaining... I'll keep enjoying.
 
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Best Buckeye said:
Just to clarify, Players grow up in certain team philosophies, ie. running team, passing team, balanced team etc. Obviously DH grew up in a passing team and so he has a mind set that mirrors that. While that is great to a certain point it leaves him lacking as to a run team mind set. So that is where he needs development in the college game so that it would project in his whole career.
Everybody who thinks we lost to Purdue because we couldn't run the ball raise your hand.
Not many Pro QB's win consistantly without running the ball.
Here's a good question, If the draft were held today where would he be drafted? Please explain why he would go ahead of the other QB's
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Once again a QB doesn’t call the offense unless they are named Payton Manning especially a 1st year starter in college. So the ability to run the ball has very little to do with the QB outside of an audible at the line as they get older. Haskins issues are he doesn’t appear to scramble well when the pocket breaks down and he gets erratic under pressure. This imaginary can’t be a QB that has a good run game is non existent.
 
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sparcboxbuck said:
What you aren't getting is that regardless of who we put at QB it's going to be a college kid who is not going to be perfect. You have shown for at least consecutive seasons that you can't be happy with our team. You keep complaining... I'll keep enjoying.
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I don't think anyone is saying whoever we put in will be perfect...it's just a matter of which "kid" is more suited to the task. Haskins simply is not a running QB who executes the read option well...Martell is. Dwayne has had all season to work on the RPO and improve on it, but he hasn't shown much, if any, progression with it...there's a reason why all of a sudden Martel is getting snaps in run situations.
 
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sparcboxbuck said:
Seriously? Thanks for helping us unwashed masses understand that they are both option plays.

What you aren't getting is that regardless of who we put at QB it's going to be a college kid who is not going to be perfect. You have shown for at least consecutive seasons that you can't be happy with our team. You keep complaining... I'll keep enjoying.
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Then dont tell me we don't run many options because we do in many ways.

Matter of fact I've been pretty good this year. I understand now more than ever that sometimes they'll lose and most of the time theyll win.

This is a message board to talk about everything and that especially means potential solutions to our issues we have. If you want a message board full of praise then I'm not sure what you're looking for.

Its fun to talk solutions to our issues and to the contrary I'm enjoying this season very much so. I realize full well its ridiculous to believe I/We have all the answers but it's fun to me to discuss it all.
 
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bukIpower said:
Then dont tell me we don't run many options because we do in many ways.

Matter of fact I've been pretty good this year. I understand now more than ever that sometimes they'll lose and most of the time theyll win.

This is a message board to talk about everything and that especially means potential solutions to our issues we have. If you want a message board full of praise then I'm not sure what you're looking for.

Its fun to talk solutions to our issues and to the contrary I'm enjoying this season very much so. I realize full well its ridiculous to believe I/We have all the answers but it's fun to me to discuss it all.
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I’m making a clear distinction between the read option which leverages a running QB to create a numbers advantage for the offense (what made Urban’s offense famous) and a RPO which yes, is an option in the sense that it requires decision making but does not require a running QB. The advantage of the RPO is having the ability to put the D in a bad position because they are defending the wrong play.

You discuss like my wife... She also has benefits that outweigh some of those frustrations. You don’t.

Your advocation of Tate playing is based on the Read Option being used again. Tate, thus far to my knowledge has not seen many, if any, RPOs called for him. He has seen almost exclusively Read Options.

So, as you bitched last year about a running QB who wasn’t a great passer, you’re advocating this year for another running QB who has made a handful of in game pass attempts at the college level.

Just because they are option-based plays, it does not mean that they are intended to stress the defense in a similar way. Fuck, you left out the triple option... that’s another example. Maybe we put Tate in the triple option and fuck passing if it makes you happy.

I’m done. Discuss all you want. It just won’t be with me until after the season is over and you aren’t bitching about everything that you know the coaches should be doing but aren’t.
 
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sparcboxbuck said:
I’m making a clear distinction between the read option which leverages a running QB to create a numbers advantage for the offense (what made Urban’s offense famous) and a RPO which yes, is an option in the sense that it requires decision making but does not require a running QB. The advantage of the RPO is having the ability to put the D in a bad position because they are defending the wrong play.

You discuss like my wife... She also has benefits that outweigh some of those frustrations. You don’t.

Your advocation of Tate playing is based on the Read Option being used again. Tate, thus far to my knowledge has not seen many, if any, RPOs called for him. He has seen almost exclusively Read Options.

So, as you bitched last year about a running QB who wasn’t a great passer, you’re advocating this year for another running QB who has made a handful of in game pass attempts at the college level.

Just because they are option-based plays, it does not mean that they are intended to stress the defense in a similar way. Fuck, you left out the triple option... that’s another example. Maybe we put Tate in the triple option and fuck passing if it makes you happy.

I’m done. Discuss all you want. It just won’t be with me until after the season is over and you aren’t bitching about everything that you know the coaches should be doing but aren’t.
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No last year I thought we needed to use JT correctly with less deep ball attempts and more RPO. Which we ended up doing and I dropped "my bitching" after the Army game for the most part.

This year is a little different... All I'm saying is Tate has a skill set we sorely need in certain situations. Once again I'm not saying he should replace Dwayne but rather add to what we do.

Also I've said this before and I'll say it again... too much on here do I get attacked personally for what I think we should do. Again, I know I'm not some genious and I know UFM has forgotten more than I probably know. So with that said no need to compare me to women who argue which I take as some kind of manhood shot.

Just relax.

I'm sold that Tate can help this team. If you dont think so then we will just leave it there. It's obvious DH is the best QB we've ever had but he's not perfect (nor do I expect him to be). What DH doesn't do well Tate does very well so in my eyes that's something we should utilize down the stretch.
 
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bukIpower said:
No last year I thought we needed to use JT correctly with less deep ball attempts and more RPO. Which we ended up doing and I dropped "my bitching" after the Army game for the most part.

This year is a little different... All I'm saying is Tate has a skill set we sorely need in certain situations. Once again I'm not saying he should replace Dwayne but rather add to what we do.

Also I've said this before and I'll say it again... too much on here do I get attacked personally for what I think we should do. Again, I know I'm not some genious and I know UFM has forgotten more than I probably know. So with that said no need to compare me to women who argue which I take as some kind of manhood shot.

Just relax.

I'm sold that Tate can help this team. If you dont think so then we will just leave it there. It's obvious DH is the best QB we've ever had but he's not perfect (nor do I expect him to be). What DH doesn't do well Tate does very well so in my eyes that's something we should utilize down the stretch.
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If the vag fits...
 
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