Recruiting Class of 2002--Rating

[stxbuck]

I don't know if LordJeff follows recruiting nationally, but if the 2002 class is 3 stars-then what classes are 5 star? Miami has had a few sick classes lately-namely the class of 00'-DJ Williams, Jonathan Vilma, Vernon Carey, Willis McGahee,-but other than that class-what are you comparing them do. Yes, we all fantasize about recruiting 10 college AAs in one class, but it doesn't generally happen.

 

[NevadaBuck]

LordJefff--
Eddie George was NOT considered an ELITE back 0r GREAT by anyone(including Coach Cooper) until his break-out senior year.

BJ Sander(another you list as a PREMIER player) had only ONE year of even playing--

using your criteria Santonio Holmes should certainly be considered great--

you keep contradicitng yourself--

Face it, in the limited time that he played Maurice Clarett was a GREAT college player--not a GREAT guy or ambassador for the OSU---

but to deny his accomplishments on the field(and the NC) is ridiculous...

he single-handily won several games that year(Wash St and Michigan come to mind) and contributed mightily in others.

Show me another class where 17 players have started games prior to their senior years.....please.........especially in light of the success of this team 3-1 vs Michigan and 3-0 in our last three bowl games...

give me facts, not emotion.....no other recruiting class is even close....

 

[jimotis4heisman]

did pittock not make honorable mention all B10?? i think he may have.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

give me facts, not emotion.....no other recruiting class is even close....

I have been doing just that - you are the one who is relying on passion.

Eddie George was NOT considered an ELITE back 0r GREAT by anyone(including Coach Cooper) until his break-out senior year.

That statement is preposterous - the numbers speak for themselves.

I don't know if LordJeff follows recruiting nationally, but if the 2002 class is 3 stars-then what classes are 5 star? Miami has had a few sick classes lately-namely the class of 00'-DJ Williams, Jonathan Vilma, Vernon Carey, Willis McGahee,-but other than that class-what are you comparing them do. Yes, we all fantasize about recruiting 10 college AAs in one class, but it doesn't generally happen.

I do follow national recruiting, but I don't know right now if I can name a "five star" class. I would doubt that it's ever happened, or that it ever will. BTW, according to Rivals, OSU's recruiting class of 2002 was 3.8 stars overall (95 stars divided by 25 recruits = 3.8 average). To say that the class is currently performing at a "three star" level is to dock them eight-tenths of a star - not exactly the huge slam that some of you are suggesting.

I never implied that the class of 2002 would have ten All-Americans; I thought that it might produce four; so far, it has produced one. FWIW, Ohio State has had four or more All-Americans in the same season 14 times:

1917 (4)
1932 (4)
1937 (4)
1942 (5)
1944 (4)
1969 (5)
1970 (6)
1973 (4)
1974 (7)
1975 (4)
1977 (4)
1995 (4)
1998 (4)
2002 (4)

 

[BuckeyeBill]

Damn, this is a good thread! Its the very reason I hit BP daily. The analysis is outstanding on both sides of the aisle (so to speak). I do want to make one point about Clarret and it goes like this.

If you knew beforehand that you could get a phenom for just one season, and you thought you had a legit shot at the NC, would you take him? HELL YES!! (you can repeat that over and over and over). For most teams, shots at the NC don't happen all that often, and if one guy can have such a significant impact, you have to rate him very highly. Aside from the disappointment he has become, his on the field performance was a huge part of that season.

 

[NevadaBuck]

LordJeff,
I would just like to understand the criteria--you list Chris Carter(who disgraced OSU and was declared ineligible for his senior year) as a GREAT player--but you knock MC-13 for virtually the same offense...


as far as productivity is concerned..no class even comes close to 2002. As far as AA's you have Hawk, Holmes, Clarett and a slew of other players to consider including Carpenter, Pitcock, Salley,etc... Throw into the mix two true freshman linemen(unprecedented) who STARTED the NC game in Mangold and Sims and the raft of other potential stars and the quality from TOP TO BOTTOM of the class becomes evident.

I would dare say that there has never been another class that even had as many players see ONE PLAY as there has been "productive" members of the 2002 class. How's that for a challenge??

 

[jimotis4heisman]

I have been doing just that - you are the one who is relying on passion.


That statement is preposterous - the numbers speak for themselves.


I do follow national recruiting, but I don't know right now if I can name a "five star" class. I would doubt that it's ever happened, or that it ever will. BTW, according to Rivals, OSU's recruiting class of 2002 was 3.8 stars overall (95 stars divided by 25 recruits = 3.8 average). To say that the class is currently performing at a "three star" level is to dock them eight-tenths of a star - not exactly the huge slam that some of you are suggesting.

I never implied that the class of 2002 would have ten All-Americans; I thought that it might produce four; so far, it has produced one. FWIW, Ohio State has had four or more All-Americans in the same season 14 times:

1917 (4)
1932 (4)
1937 (4)
1942 (5)
1944 (4)
1969 (5)
1970 (6)
1973 (4)
1974 (7)
1975 (4)
1977 (4)
1995 (4)
1998 (4)
2002 (4)

how many of 1917s were chics 3? a better way to classify that might be total aa's and players whoh made aa

 

[NevadaBuck]

or better yet(and actually APPROPRIATE to the thread) would be how many AA's were from the same recruiting class....that part is left off--because once you examine that, the hypothesis comes rapidly apart...

 

[jimotis4heisman]

on the 94 george thing to, he ran behind pace and stringer...(not to knock him but two all pro tackles)

 

[LordJeffBuck]

how many of 1917s were chics 3? a better way to classify that might be total aa's and players who made aa

To follow is a list of all Buckeye All-Americans. I have highlighted all of the "four plus" years; as you can see, there were also many years where the Bucks had three All-Americans.

1914
Boyd Cherry E

1916
Chic Harley B
Robert Karch T

1917
Charles Bolen E
Harold Courtney E
Chic Harley B
Kelley VanDyne C

1918
Clarence MacDonald E

1919
Chic Harley B
Gaylord Stinchcomb B

1920
Iolas Huffman G
Gaylord Stinchcomb B

1921
Iolas Huffman T
Cyril Myers E

1923
Harry Workman QB

1924
Harold Cunningham E

1925
Edwin Hess G

1926
Edwin Hess G
Martin Karow HB
Leo Raskowski T

1927
Leo Raskowski T

1928
Wesley Fesler E

1929
Wesley Fesler E

1930
Wesley Fesler E
Lew Hinchman HB

1931
Carl Cramer QB
Lew Hinchman HB

1932
Joseph Gailus G
Sid Gillman E
Lew Hinchman HB
Ted Rosequist T

1933
Joseph Gailus G

1934
Regis Monahan G
Merle Wendt E

1935
Gomer Jones C
Merle Wendt E

1936
Charles Hamrick T
Inwood Smith G
Merle Wendt E

1937
Carl Kaplanoff T
Jim McDonald QB
Ralph Wolf C
Gust Zarnas G

1939
Vic Marino G
Esco Sarkkinen E
Donald Scott HB

1940
Donald Scott HB

1942
Robert Shaw E
Charles Csuri T
Lindell Houston G
Paul Sarringhaus HB
Gene Fekete

1943
Bill Willis T

1944
Jack Dugger E
Bill Willis T
William Hackett G
Les Horvath QB/HB

1945
Warren Amling G
Ollie Cline FB
Russell Thomas T

1946
Warren Amling T
Cecil Souders E

1950
Robert Momsen T
Robert McCullough C
Victor Janowicz HB

1952
Mike Takacs G

1954
Dean Dugger E
Howard Cassady HB
Jim Reichenbach G

1955
Jim Parker G
Howard Cassady HB

1956
Jim Parker G

1957
Aurealius Thomas G

1958
James Houston E
Jim Marshall T
Bob White FB

1959
Jim Houston E

1960
Bob Ferguson FB

1961
Bob Ferguson FB

1964
Jim Davidson T
Ike Kelley LB
Arnie Chonko DB

1965
Douglas Van Horn G
Ike Kelley LB

1966
Ray Pryor C

1968
David Foley OT
Rufus Mayes OT

1969
Jim Stillwagon G
Rex Kern QB
Jim Otis FB
Ted Provost CB
Jack Tatum CB

1970
Jan White TE
Jim Stillwagon MG
John Brockington FB
Jack Tatum CB
Mike Sensibaugh S
Tim Anderson CB

1971
Tom DeLeone C

1972
John Hicks OT
Randy Gradishar LB

1973
Van Ness DeCree DE
John Hicks OT
Randy Gradishar LB
Archie Griffin TB

1974
Van Ness DeCree DE
Kurt Schumacher OT
Pete Cusick DT
Steve Myers C
Archie Griffin TB
Neal Colzie CB
Tom Skladany P

1975
Ted Smith OG
Archie Griffin TB
Tim Fox S
Tom Skladany P

1976
Bob Brudzinski DE
Chris Ward OT
Tom Skladany P

1977
Chris Ward OT
Aaron Brown NG
Tom Cousineau LB
Ray Griffin S

1978
Tom Cousineau LB

1979
Ken Fritz OG
Art Schlichter QB

1982
Marcus Marek LB

1984
James Lachey OG
Keith Byars TB

1985
Thomas "Pepper" Johnson LB

1986
Cris Carter SE
Chris Spielman LB

1987
Chris Spielman LB
Tom Tupa P

1988
Jeff Uhlenhake C

1991
Steve Tovar LB

1992
Steve Tovar LB

1993
Korey Stringer OT
Dan Wilkinson DT

1994
Korey Stringer OT

1995
Eddie George TB
Terry Glenn FL
Orlando Pace OT
Mike Vrabel DE

1996
Orlando Pace OT
Shawn Springs CB
Mike Vrabel DE

1997
Andy Katzenmoyer LB
Rob Murphy OG
Antoine Winfield CB

1998
David Boston SE
Damon Moore SS
Rob Murphy OG
Antoine Winfield CB

1999
Na’il Diggs LB

2000
Mike Doss SS

2001
LeCharles Bentley C
Mike Doss SS

2002
Mike Doss SS
Andy Groom P
Mike Nugent K
Matt Wilhelm LB

2003
Will Allen SS
Will Smith DE

2004
A.J. Hawk LB
Mike Nugent K

 

[jimotis4heisman]

i repped you for it ljb, i dont see this as an argument though, i see this as a really good, and interesting debate.

 

[stxbuck]

I do follow national recruiting, but I don't know right now if I can name a "five star" class. I would doubt that it's ever happened, or that it ever will. BTW, according to Rivals, OSU's recruiting class of 2002 was 3.8 stars overall (95 stars divided by 25 recruits = 3.8 average). To say that the class is currently performing at a "three star" level is to dock them eight-tenths of a star - not exactly the huge slam that some of you are suggesting.

I never implied that the class of 2002 would have ten All-Americans; I thought that it might produce four; so far, it has produced one. FWIW, Ohio State has had four or more All-Americans in the same season 14 times:

1917 (4)
1932 (4)
1937 (4)
1942 (5)
1944 (4)
1969 (5)
1970 (6)
1973 (4)
1974 (7)
1975 (4)
1977 (4)
1995 (4)
1998 (4)
2002 (4)

If you admit a 5 star class is an impossibility-fine, this is not a 5 star class. But, if, in terms of productivity it is the best class OSU has ever had-and comparable to other great recruiting classes-nationally and in Buckeye history, it would have to be a five star class-the best possible. Compared to the past, this class is as good as it gets. Besides, AJ Hawk had 3 stars or whatever his senior year-maybe a star system isn't the way to go about this.
Also, a far as stars go-that is an arbitrary system, that changes each year. The top 5 RBs are given five stars, the next 10 four-whatever. That said, in a weak year nationally for RBs, a "five star" back from 04-this year, might not be as good as a four star RB from 03-a much better year for RBs.

 

[Alan]

Someone hit me in the face with a frying pan.....how in the world did i not see this thread until just now????

both sides have great points and i really enjoyed reading the discussion.....

in an attempt to straddle fences here.....i will say that assigning numbers to recruiting classes is open to evaluation.....thats why i always refuse when someone asks "what are the odds of so-and-so coming to ohio state".....

so....let me do some research....one thing is for sure.....i really like the 02 recruiting class....more for the depth than the stars.....

by quickly scanning the 04 roster....it appears that 12 members of this seasons starters were from the 02 class and a whopping 18 members of the 02 class were major contributors.....

again....i love the depth of that class....

this gets down to conley's approach vs. coach t's approach.....conley went shotgun style, hoping a few would hit.....tressel throws darts......

just my 2 cents....

nobody is right or wrong in this thread.....

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

To follow is a list of all Buckeye All-Americans. I have highlighted all of the "four plus" years; as you can see, there were also many years where the Bucks had three All-Americans.

...

2002
Mike Doss SS
Andy Groom P
Mike Nugent K
Matt Wilhelm LB

...

The four AAs in 2002 is totally misleading. Only Doss and Wilhelm were in the same recruiting class (1999). Groom was a walk-on and Nugent is from the 2001 recruiting class.

To expect 4-6 AAs in one recruiting class in the era of the 85-scholarship limit is mind-boggling to say the least.

 

[NevadaBuck]

Mili--that was my point exactly.

But, ironically enough, you could have four AA's this year all from the 2002 class(in addition to "what would have been" with MC-13) in Hawk, Carpenter, Holmes, and Salley(maybe Pitcock)

2002 was a class for the ages. If its "3 1/2 stars" that better be the top of the scale!