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self driving cars...

Discussion in 'Open Discussion (Work-safe)' started by martinss01, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. Thump

    Thump Hating the environment since 1994

    You're on crack. No way in 20-30 years they are common. Emphasis will be on an alternative fuel fleet before self-driving.

    All it would take is a GPS satellite or two getting effed up or solar flares to halt traffic nationwide. Also, would terrorists be able to easily hack in and remotely control vehicles?

    Self-driving cars are just not that important.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
    LovelandBuckeye likes this.
  2. OHSportsFan

    OHSportsFan Fan of Ohio Sports in Indy

    lol just get a professional chauffeur like me, you peons.
    jwinslow and LovelandBuckeye like this.
  3. Dryden

    Dryden Sober as Sarkisian Staff Member Tech Admin

    Outside of maybe five minutes of autopilot on I-70 while on a road trip, no red blooded American man is letting go of the wheel.
    LovelandBuckeye and Mike80 like this.
  4. Muck

    Muck Enjoy Every Sandwich

    Your mom may be a pro but....
    Jaxbuck, scarletmike and OHSportsFan like this.
  5. exhawg

    exhawg Mirror Guy Staff Member

    Maybe I'm not a red blooded American, but if I have the option between spending 2 hours holding onto the wheel and keeping an eye on all the idiots around me or kicking my feet up and watching Big Hero 6 with the kids while the car does the work I'll watch the movie. Noted this isn't an option with any current system and my kids will probably have kids of their own before it truly is. With how far technology has come in the past 20 years I find it funny that so many people think that cars driving themselves won't happen in the next 20 years. I'm pretty sure my phone is 10x more powerful than the first Windows computer I bought back in 96. Maybe they won't ever force you to use it, but my guess is your new car will have a fully functional autopilot in 2036.

    On the other hand you are all probably right. We'll be gliding along in our Hyperloop pods by then. :p
  6. jwinslow

    jwinslow A MAN OF BETRAYED JUSTICE Staff Member Tourney Pick'em Champ

    Computational power and adaptation are not the only roadblocks. Vulnerability and fault tolerance are major concerns. Throughout the decades you referenced, the viruses and exploits are virtually always ahead of the security measures and the latter are often reactive. There is also a measure of expected and acceptable failure when it comes to computers. As long as it isn't that frequent and nothing too critical is lost, we put up with a lot of freezes, stalls and other malfunctioning software. There is zero tolerance for that with a self driving car.
    Jagdaddy and scarletmike like this.
  7. scarletmike

    scarletmike Researching the Magic!

    While a fully autonomous vehicle would be awesome, I don't need or necessarily want that. I think Tesla's current system as is is a great base and look at where car manufacturers will all be within 5-10 years, and I think that's the sweet spot for most general consumers. A "permanent" cruise control system that locks on to the known speed limit with an allowance for slight manual adjustment up or down (i.e. within 5mph of posted) and is viable at all speed ranges is about the only missing feature I'd like to see. The Garmin I used before I had an iPhone was scary accurate with the speed limits as long as it was kept up to date. It was usually only off in construction zones, but smart cars with the expected cameras/sensors can easily adjust to construction markers on the fly.
  8. Muck

    Muck Enjoy Every Sandwich

    No we won't, but Elon Musk will probably be rolling around like Scrooge McDuck in the billions that idiots will throw at him over it.
  9. OHSportsFan

    OHSportsFan Fan of Ohio Sports in Indy

    Don't have a dog in this fight, but are there not also zero tolerances for the systems and machines that guide an airplane?

    Devil's advocate against myself: the sheer volume of traffic on land vs air obviously adds scary/tragic variables.

    Oh god *shudders* construction zones. Nope. No thanks. Nevermind. Do not want automatic cars navigating those death traps.
  10. martinss01

    martinss01 blissfully stupid

    first, sorry for starting a thread then disappearing :(

    depends on the scenario. is your 95 yr old physically and mentally capable of driving a car? note, that is not the same as having a valid drivers license. just because our laws for licensing individuals to drive needs work doesn't make self driving cars suddenly a good idea. but yes, assuming your grandfather/mother is mentally and physically capable of being a responsible driver... i would absolutely trust them more than a computer. while i would expect the computer to be more "efficient" behind the wheel. ie properly obey the driving laws to the letter and making efficient use of said laws and using them to create an effective driving plan. i DO NOT trust a pc or any code i have yet come across to intelligently handle a scenario for which it is not currently programmed.

    the reality is that i don't need you or anyone else to signal for a full mile before changing lanes on the highway. what i do need from the drivers around me is the ability to react and adapt to scenarios that can not be forseen in a reasonable manner.

    self driving cars are a fix for a problem that already has a much simpler, more efficient and less expensive fix. its called a "driver safety course". make people take one to get AND renew their license. then, have the bmv work with individuals primary care physicians to flag individuals who may need more review before being allowed to get behind the wheel of a car. the drunk bit is even easier. the u of wisky (i think it is) recently announced the invent of a blood test system that literally just has to come into contact with the skin on your finger. no poking required. put something similar to that in the steering wheel and insto super chango! :)

    how do you plan to make that work specifically? you do know there are places here in ohio where your gps nor cell phone will work right? the people who live there... do they have to start walking or move or....?

    does it become more fair when you factor in the number of people hurt or killed by takata air bags? or chevy's inability to make a car ignition system that doesn't literally kill everyone in the car? these are the SAME types of people who will be writing the software for your self driving car.... just sayin..

    outside of the whole "time travel thing..." yes, we actually do have a pretty respectable approximation to that technology.

    if your just talking about the flying part... we got that too, and likely far closer to the whole iron man bit than either of us realize. flying soldiers have been on the "to do list" for most military contractors since the beginning of the cold war.

    but i will happily check back in 10 years. flying cars, imo, are an epic waste of time and money that could be much better used elsewhere. its just not going to happen. sorry :(.

    there are laws against just about any bad thing the above demographics could ever do wrong. problem is we don't enforce those laws. so we are desperately looking for a technological solution to solve the issue of us being too damn lazy to enforce our own laws.

    why is it "fair" to make an individual purchase something they don't want or need? im starting to think this brainchild is coming from the makers of obamacare. further, one of the more amusing stories out of the self driving car club is the one where a self driving car sat at a 4 way stop for over 10 minutes. the reason? the people at the other 3 sides of the 4 way stop didn't stop long enough for the self driving car to think it was safe to move.

    a lot of people call that a win for the self driving car and a knock on the humans. to me that is absolutely incorrect. a self driving car is only capable of what it is programmed to do. the human mind is able to anticipate and adapt to scenarios it has never experienced before. i have no idea how anyone could expect a developer to sit down and code every possible scenario a car "might" face in the real world. keep in mind ANY scenario you leave out likely ends in an application error of some type. which ya know.... tend to STOP applications. so when your self driving car all the sudden hits an unrecoverable error condition it..... pulls over? slows down? stops immediately? speeds up? explodes? just a heads up... none of the above is a one size fits all solution to every potential issue and any of the above in the wrong scenario could very likely result in human deaths.

    i think there is a lot more functionality in that sentence than you realize. i work for a company that does some reasonably high tech high capacity software development and support. the services we provide are rather life and death. so i think i can speak to this subject a little bit. i don't want to bore you with every issue with what you just said from a technical point of view nor do i think you personally need all the answers. someone does, but you nor i do. however, i could write a 50 page single space report and not come close to covering every single technical challenge related to the above.

    xp???? rofl!!! id be happy if people would just stop using win 95 and NT!!!!

    if i remember correctly that isn't even a self driving car issue but rather a "radio software" problem.
    jwinslow likes this.
  11. Jaxbuck

    Jaxbuck I hate tsun ‘18 Fantasy Baseball Champ

  12. Dryden

    Dryden Sober as Sarkisian Staff Member Tech Admin

  13. Jaxbuck

    Jaxbuck I hate tsun ‘18 Fantasy Baseball Champ

    I wonder if i would still road rage in a driverless car?
    jwinslow likes this.
  14. Muck

    Muck Enjoy Every Sandwich

    More likely the car will road rage on you.

    scarletmike and Jaxbuck like this.
  15. martinss01

    martinss01 blissfully stupid

    so back to this again...

    i guess the good news is we have finally proven that perpetual motion is not only possible, but exists today. albeit only in the form of a wheel of futility...

    human beings can not be expected to safely react quickly enough or pay attention while in control of a motor vehicle so..
    we invented self driving cars, but because they might break we have to have a safety mechanism that can step in and take control at a moments notice so...
    we have licensed drivers sit behind the wheel ready to do exactly that so...
    because human beings can not be expected to safely react quickly enough or pay attention while in control of a motor vehicle so..
    we invented self driving cars, but because they might break we have to have have a safety mechanism that can step in and take control at a moments notice so...
    we have licensed drivers sit behind the wheel ready to do exactly that so...

    so... thats a thing right? self driving cars have the ability to yield right of way to emergency vehicles yes?

    so lets say they do have the ability to yield right of way and a cop pulls them over for a traffic violation. who signs the ticket for the violation? the vehicle itself is operating itself. potentially without a valid drivers license in this case. come to think of it, probably every case. has a single one of these cars passed a drivers safety course through the bmv? but lets say they have and are licensed to operate themselves on a public roadway. because the vehicle is very literally operating itself, it would have to be the "one"? "thing"? "object"? "entity"? this is starting to feel like sovereign citizen-ish territory so lets move on... operating the motor vehicle. as i suspect it lacks the ability to sign a ticket or the necessary pieces of anatomy to talk its way out of a ticket. or talk at all... its going to be arrested for, at a minimum, impeding an investigation. i think its pretty safe to assume the car is going to jail... i can't imagine the journey through booking is going to go very smoothly. likely infinite contempt of courts for refusing to communicate on any level with the judge... so basically we're talking about a life sentence for an improper lane change?

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