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Should semipro/college players be paid, or allowed to sell their stuff? (NIL and Revenue Sharing)

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It's simple. Players should not be paid. People go to college to become professionals, not to be professionals. As far as I'm concerned the NFL has minimum job requirements, and one of them is all applicants must be at least 3 years out of HS. I didn't just get to be a lawyer because I wanted to be. Didn't walk into a law firm and demand to be made partner straight out of high school.

Also, I think a lot of people - including the talking heads - don't understand that the NCAA is an association. The billions the NCAA makes isn't going to some CEO somewhere, it's going to the member institutions. Something like 4% of all income pays for NCAA staff, as it does cost money to pay for administration of the association, as well as it's enforcement body (who, if they get paid a nickel, get paid too much, but that's another thread). Anyway, the rest of that money goes to fund ... wait for it... grants in aid, among several other things. Fact is, the players DO benefit from their play on the field. They ALREADY are paid for their labors. They don't make NFL money. Nor should they... they're students not professionals.

I don't have a real problem with an athlete selling his autograph, or his championship ring, etc. on one level, but it opens the door to too much corruption, so, I have to remain "against" it. But, when it happens, I don't really get my shorts in a bunch over it. I mean, A&M isn't getting an unfair advantage if Money Badger gets paid to autograph something.. he's already enrolled there and not being induced improperly (Well, he does go to A&M, so I'm sure someone has been more than improper with him... but, that's more a discussion about cum jars).
 
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BUCKYLE said:
I don't doubt it. The true powers of CFB should have been in a separate division since schollie limits were enacted. It hasn't been fair since the big boys started building 75k+ stadiums and the facilities arms race began.

How much more will each B1G school make after the next round of tv contract negotiations? I'm gonna guess enough to give every student athlete a chunk while maintaining everything else just fine.

It sounds like all of the [Mark May] people said when the cubs signed Ryne Sandberg to ten mil a year.

The major athletic departments are making more money every year. There's no way they're scraping by. I mean tOSU has had many sports for a long time. It seems after the next tv deal, the income should surpass expenses by a wide margin.
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Here's the problem though. You're only focusing on football. This problem can't be taken in isolation due to the scope of the NCAA (meaning all sports) and how such a decision would affect them.

BTW only a few athletic departments actually ended up in the black for the year. paying players will only push those who are losing money to lose more, and those who actually turned a profit to either make less or go into debt themselves.

As I said, paying football players is probably going to happen. At that point, Pandora's box will open, the NCAA and all it's member institutions will be sued due to Title IX compliance, member institutions will either drop football or schollies altogether and that'll be that.
 
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One other thing that often gets overlooked, or downright neglected, is that individual players--even the biggest stars--have very little to do with the money a program generates. It has a lot more to do with decades of tradition and brand building, alumni and geographic affiliations and loyalties. Ohio State would not have made one penny less during Terrell Pryor's time on campus had he chosen to go to Michigan, so it's rather disingenuous to argue that these student-athletes are "generating" the revenue in the first place. Aggy was still going to get all their SEC! money whether Money Badger played last year or not.
 
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BUCKYLE said:
If college sports are ruined by paying the people that actually provide the entertainment being sold, it was too corrupt to begin with.
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I stand by that they are currently getting paid. They are getting paid with all of the training that they NEED in order to make those big paychecks in the NFL. I say good luck to them if all of the players want to get together to start a league. Put down a couple billion to get set up, make up their teams and sell big TV contracts. The problem is, even if they could do it, they only reason a lot of people watch college ball is to follow and cheer for their school. Yes, the players provide the entertainment, but without the school backing them all of their talents are essentially worthless. The schools put up the investment, and deserve to reap the reward. And the players, if they work hard will also reap the reward, but they have to put in the time. For those that don't want to go to the NFL or can't, they are getting paid with a free education that in most cases they couldn't afford to otherwise. That education greatly increases their earning potential after graduation. All college students are broke. It's called putting in your time for your future. Paying students in addition to the over 100k a year in benefits they get is a very slippery slope, because how much money is enough? Will the more profitable schools like Texas be required to pay their players more, and the schools that lose money, like Clemson won't, or better yet, should the student athletes share the debt? Does the whole team share it, or just the best players on the team? 85 guys on scholarship, and half of them don't make the school any money, so maybe if they don't perform they'll have to pay back their benefits? If they share in the reward, they'll have to share in the risk, or is the school supposed to take all the risk and only share the reward if there is one? The vast majority of even FBS college football programs lose money.
 
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A friend forwarded this article to me after we had a discussion on this subject Saturday night. He was on the "pay the players" side of the argument, but couldn't come up with a solution to preventing corruption by big schools or deciding which players get paid. Anyway, I think this guy puts forth a rough outline for the only realistic solution, making the NFL start taking players out of high school and leaving the NCAA as it is.

How the NFL Can Save College Football—And Make a Profit
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303643304579107890642545178.html
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From the sounds of it, this is the path that the NCAA is trying to push. To their credit, they're at least saying that this is what they want. It's debatable whether this is just lip service, or if they actually believe it would work. The cynical part of me thinks they know that players aren't going to pick playing in some no-name/no-attention league for $30k a year, instead of playing under the lights at OSU or Bama on national TV. There were some comments by Delaney in another article (below) where he sounded like he was saying "go ahead kids, try selling your likeness without us." Either way, if the option for a farm system was available the NCAA could tell everyone to STFU.

College Sports Goes on the Offensive
Colleges Push Pros to Change Their Draft Rules

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303643304579109732901549934.html
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Big Ten's Jim Delany suggests NFL minor league amid pay-for-play debate
By Chris Fuhrmeister @ccfuhr on Sep 26 2013, 9:00a

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/9/26/4772814/jim-delany-nfl-minor-league-big-ten
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Mike80 said:
Here's what you do:

You tell football players or whoever that if they think they can get someone to pay their way, they agree to an academic schedule that they must adhere too, and do not offer them scholarship money in any way, shape or form. If they can't get paid, they don't go to school. Simple. If they DO want to go to school, they agree to never take money on pain of getting kicked out of school immediately and they are a normal student.

Scholarships are still there for everyone, but they have to agree never to take any money at all for anything. This can be the same across all sports and might save some schools some cash in the end.

However, this idea is farrrrr too easy to enact and way too logical for the NCAA to ever adopt.
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Hmm, this idea sound familiar...

BayBuck said:
Just had a thought: What about letting some college athletes opt out of the scholarship model in order to market themselves individually? Let players make whatever they can from endorsements etc., but then make them pay their own way for school/food/housing, as well as still requiring them to maintain basic academic standards for on-the-field eligibility. This way the sky's the limit for the top players who think they can do better than the current model allows them, but otherwise keeps the current system (and amateur/student-athlete status) in place for the vast majority of scholarship athletes who really can't do any better than the full ride with all the perks they get now.
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:biggrin:
 
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58 percent in favor of power conferences splitting to form own division

To many it seems inevitable that the big power conferences will soon be getting a chance to operate somewhat independently of the NCAA system. Whether that is ultimately good or bad for college sports remains up for debate, but if nothing else it could allow for a chance to see the schools with the power to operate on a different level find a way to do so without having to be held back by those without as much clout in the game. With university athletics personnel gathering this week for an annual NCAA convention, the topic of a split among division one schools has been a hot topic, and it appears there is support for a split to be made.

Pat Forde of Yahoo Sports reports 58 percent of administrators from all levels of NCAA membership support the power conferences forming their own division. If majority rules, brace yourself. Changes are coming.

“It makes sense for the five big revenue conferences to have their own voice,” NCAA president Mark Emmert told Yahoo Sports Friday. “A year ago that would have been a very difficult conversation. Now [power member schools] are saying, ‘Yeah, that makes sense.’ … People have just become more comfortable with the ideas and concepts of it.’ “

According to Forde, the structure of the NCAA will be evaluated more in the next general meeting to take place in April. At that time it is expected a potential plan will be shared and taken back to the various conferences to review with university presidents during the various conference meetings. After that revisions will be brought to the table and reviewed before any votes can formally take place. Basically, this is not going to be an overnight process, but nobody expected it to be. The good news, for the sake of finding some sort of resolution, the goal is in place to find some peace by the end of the summer.

At the heart of the idea of a division split continues to be the boiling point of compensation for student-athletes beyond the typical scholarship limits currently in place. The big conferences have the funds available to offer more for players that smaller conferences do not. They are already playing on different playing fields in many respects, but the bigger conferences feel they are held back by not being able to do more because of the limitations the smaller conferences face.

Entire article: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaa-p...g-12-212725211.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory
 
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Kain Colter starts union movement

For the first time in the history of college sports, athletes are asking to be represented by a labor union, taking formal steps on Tuesday to begin the process of being recognized as employees, ESPN's "Outside The Lines" has learned.

Ramogi Huma, president of the National College Players Association, filed a petition in Chicago on behalf of football players at Northwestern University, submitting the form at the regional office of the National Labor Relations Board.

Backed by the United Steelworkers union, Huma also filed union cards signed by an undisclosed number of Northwestern players with the NLRB -- the federal statutory body that recognizes groups that seek collective bargaining rights.

"This is about finally giving college athletes a seat at the table," said Huma, a former UCLA linebacker, who created the NCPA as an advocacy group in 2001. "Athletes deserve an equal voice when it comes to their physical, academic and financial protections."

Huma told "Outside The Lines" that the move to unionize players at Northwestern started with quarterback Kain Colter, who reached out to him last spring and asked for help in giving athletes representation in their effort to improve the conditions under which they play NCAA sports. Colter became a leading voice in regular NCPA-organized conference calls among players from around the country.

"The action we're taking isn't because of any mistreatment by Northwestern," Colter said. "We love Northwestern. The school is just playing by the rules of their governing body, the NCAA. We're interested in trying to help all players -- at USC, Stanford, Oklahoma State, everywhere. It's about protecting them and future generations to come.

"Right now the NCAA is like a dictatorship. No one represents us in negotiations. The only way things are going to change is if players have a union."

The NFLPA's Board of Player Representatives passed a resolution supporting the players' union movement, Pro Football Talk has reported: "Resolved, that the NFLPA pledges its support to the National Collegiate Players Association (NCPA) and its pursuit of basic rights and protections for future NFLPA members."

In a Sept. 21 game against Maine, Colter wore a black wristband with the hashtag "#APU" -- All Players United -- prominently scrawled in white marker as part of a quiet protest gesture. He was joined that day by about 10 teammates as well as players at Georgia and Georgia Tech. In all, players on seven teams in the five largest conferences displayed the #APU symbol, according to the NCPA.

Huma said he met with Northwestern players over the weekend on campus in Evanston, Ill., and took the next step in creating a collective voice for players. He said Colter introduced him to groups of players that Colter had talked with over the past couple of months about their interest in taking the unprecedented step of asking for union representation.

To have the NLRB consider a petition to be unionized, at least 30 percent of the members of a group serving an employer must sign union cards.

Huma declined to say how many Northwestern players signed cards other than the number was an "overwhelming majority." To get to 30 percent, at least 26 of the 85 scholarship players had to sign.

Colter told "Outside The Lines" on Tuesday morning that he met with Wildcats coach Pat Fitzgerald to share the news that the union cards had just been filed.

"It couldn't have gone any better," Colter said. "Obviously, he has employers he needs to think about. But he's understanding of what we did, that this is something we feel passionate about, and he wants to make the athletes' experience the best it can be.

"The team is excited. Their biggest worry was how the head coach was going to take it. It was a big relief for them to hear from me how he reacted."

The formal entity that would represent the players, if certified by the NLRB, is called the College Athletes Players Association. It was created by Huma, Colter and Luke Bonner, a former UMass basketball player and brother of NBA player Matt Bonner, with technical support from the United Steelworkers, who will not receive union dues from players, said Huma, who is registered as the CAPA's president.

"When Ramogi first reached out to us years ago, we were like an overwhelming part of the population in that we figured athletes were lucky because they're getting an education," United Steelworkers president Leo Gerard said Tuesday. "But then we looked into it and realized it's a myth. Many don't get a true education and their scholarships aren't guaranteed."

The group has called a news conference at 11:30 a.m. CT Tuesday at the Hyatt Regency Hotel in downtown Chicago, where Kolter, Huma, Gerard and Tim Waters, the union's national political director as well as the NCPA's liaison within the union, will speak.

"The NCAA is a train wreck waiting to happen," Waters said. "What brought them to this moment is they couldn't control their greed. They put all this money in the system."

Spokesmen for Northwestern, the Big Ten Conference and NCAA were not immediately available for comment.

Huma said the goals of the CAPA are the same as that of the NCPA. The group has pressed for better concussion and other medical protections, and for scholarships to cover the full cost of attendance.
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Entire article: http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...cats-football-players-trying-join-labor-union
 
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