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Spanish Election

Discussion in 'Open Discussion (Work-safe)' started by Oh8ch, Mar 14, 2004.

  1. Oh8ch

    Oh8ch Cognoscente of Omphaloskepsis Staff Member

    There are a lot of threads on the US election right now. In one of them I stated my opinion that the election will be decided on the issue of terrorism - not the economy and not character or lack thereof. I also said I believe either GW or Osama will make sure this is the case.

    Well, the results of the Spanish election are in. In the wake of their 3-11 they have decided that the party that made them a target of Al Qeida by supporting the US must go. All indications are that the attacks were the deciding facto in this election.

    To put it another way, in a referendum on the effectiveness of terrrorism as a political tool the people of Spain have said that yes, it is an effective tool and they encourage its continued use. Just not in Madrid, of course.

    In their naivete - and righteous anger - they have not sperated the use of terrorism as a generic tool, but have considered it only in the light of its use by one group on one issue.

    I find this result terribly disturbing.
     
  2. DEBuckeye

    DEBuckeye It ain't easy, bein' cheesy.

    Good observation, and I agree with your thinking. I also think that our election will hinge pretty heavily on terrorism and Iraq, and I think that's a bad way to make the decision.

    Whether you agree with him or not, I believe that GW did the right thing by going hard at bin laden after 9/11. He stood up and showed the terrorists, and our country, that we weren't going to take this kind of crap lying down. Regarding Iraq, I support him as well. WMD's or not (and I believe that they are, or at least were, there) Hussien was a threat and needed to be dealt with.

    I really don't think that the Democrats will stand up to these guys the way GW has, and I don't think they'll support the tough stance we need to have here in the US to keep us safe. My fear is that people in the US will vote based on a few issues within the overall problem and we'll make a change that puts us in a dangerous spot.

    Plus, as Oh8ch pointed out, it will appear as though terrorism forced the change. If you asked bin laden who he'd rather have in the White House, I'd guess he'd vote for Kerry. bin laden is an asshole, but he's not stupid. I'm sure he knows that a Democratic win will loosen things up a bit and allow him to continue blowing up the world at his convienience. The last time a Democrat was in office, he had 8 years to sit back and plan his next attack...
     
  3. BuckeyeInTheBoro

    BuckeyeInTheBoro This space left intentionally blank

    Classic quote. I agree 100%

    If a kid cries for candy in the grocery store, the parent has a choice to make: "Do I give the kid what he wants and make him stop crying for now or do I stick to my guns and put up with the crying now to avoid a fight everytime we come to the grocery store?"

    All a terrorist is, is a kid crying in the grocery store. The second you give in... even once... you have taught them that their tactics will work. Unfortunately, I am coming to the conclusion that many people don't even have the discipline and resolve to make the right choice with the kid screaming for candy... let alone actual terrorists.
     
  4. BuckeyeSoldier

    BuckeyeSoldier 2 time Reigning BuckeyePlanet Poker Champion

    eh, just to clarify one point, i dont think there was ANYONE who didnt think we should have gone after osama, dont confuse the dislike of attacking iraq before we had the UN on board to thinking that anyone said we shouldnt be hunting the terrorists... the entire world agreed to get osama..
     
  5. gbearbuck

    gbearbuck Herbie for President

    Now that the terrists know that they can bomb things and get people to vote how they want, I would be very upset if I lived in any large city that is pro-democratic... I would guess France, England, Germany, etc. will prob. get a little attention from the cowards that like to kill people in the name of their "God" who is against killing (is it me or does that make no sense at all... ok different topic, but that still puzzles me, just like the Crusades... lets kill people in the name of God, oh, and by the way our God says not to kill??)...
     
  6. buckeyebri

    buckeyebri Don’t Come Around Here No More....

    I agree BuckeyeSoldier, your point is right on. I don't think one person in this Country has an issue with going after Osama and standing up to terrorists. I also, don't think too many people had an issue with taking out Saddam. Those who had an issue, were opposed to the manner in which Bush went about it.

    Gbear, so true on this whole issue of killing in "the name of God". I have a huge issue with that. More people have died for that reason. I have talked to a co-worker who is Islamic and he has a real problem with the whole jihad concept that Osama is using saying that it is a blatant misuse. He also had a real problem with Sadam. He believes that both will have to atone on their day of reckoning as they have truly twisted the Koran and truly Islamic followers know this.

    It will be truly unfortunate if the election swings on this one issue as it seems like it did in Spain. Anyone else curious about the timing of the bombing and the convenience of the evidence leading to Al Quida?
     
  7. RAMdrvr1

    RAMdrvr1 All Galaxy '14 NCAA Pick'em Champ

    I'm a little confused here. The way the chain of thought seems to be going here is;
    1. Terrorists used the bombing in Spain to influence the election.
    2. A U.S. Democratic President would never have acted as swiftly and decisively as Bush did.

    Using that logic, why didn't the terrorist attacks in the U.S. happen while a Democrat was in office? Why would terrorist want the son of the last president who invaded the Middle East to be in office when they struck, knowing that he would do the same thing? Why did the swift and decisive attack on terrorism take so long to happen? And the most important question (at least to me) is...

    Looking at the big picture, what has been accomplished? After the losing of so many lives and billions of $ that has almost destroyed our economy, how has this country even broke even? Taking off the Republican-Democrat blinders for a minute, how is this country not worse off now? The elections in Spain may have an extremely negitive fall-out for this country, and that is just one of the things going on right now. Why is almost everything in our stores today "Made in China"?

    (The intentions of this post is not to creat anger, but to provoke thought.)
     
  8. LightningRod

    LightningRod Senior

    I believe people will vote their pocketbooks based on conversations I have had with people as well as tracking polls. Here is an article presently on Yahoo news concerning military family members protesting the war in IRAQ. Many people do not view the IRAQ matter as a terrorist related action.

    <table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="99%">Relatives of US soldiers killed in Iraq protest outside US base
    </td> <td width="1%" align="right">
    </td> </tr></tbody> </table> <table width="420" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr valign="middle"> <td width="40%"> <!-- Yahoo TimeStamp: 1079337828 --> <!-- timestamp 1079337828 42298 secs stale 28800 secs --> Mon Mar 15, 3:03 AM ET
    </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap" width="60%"> <table width="1%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr><td width="1%">[​IMG]</td><td nowrap="nowrap" width="99%"> Add Politics - AFP to My Yahoo!</td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody> </table> <!-- TextStart -->

    DOVER, United States (AFP) - [size=-1] Some 600 protesters, many of them relatives of US soldiers killed in Iraq (news - web sites) or currently on duty in the region, marched against the war outside Dover Air Force Base in the northeastern state of Delaware. [/size]

    <table width="1%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" align="left"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td width="99%"> <center> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="150"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td> <center> [​IMG]
    AFP/File Photo </center>
    </td></tr></tbody></table> </center> <!-- start 2003 07/28 15:07 expire never -->
    <table width="158" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1" border="0" bgcolor="black"> <tbody><tr><td><table width="158" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" bgcolor="white"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td> <table width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr valign="top" align="center"> <td>
    </td></tr></tbody></table> <!-- recent_timestamp 1079379157 969 secs not stale 28800 secs --> <table width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td width="99%">
    </td></tr></tbody></table> <!-- recent_timestamp 1079378897 1229 secs not stale 28800 secs --> <table width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td width="99%">
    </td></tr></tbody></table> <!-- recent_timestamp 1079378614 1512 secs not stale 28800 secs --> <table width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td width="99%">
    </td></tr></tbody></table> <table width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tbody><tr valign="top" align="center"> <td>
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    </td></tr></tbody></table>

    [size=-1] One of the marchers, Fernando Suarez del Solar, said that he was "very disillusioned" with the US government of President George W. Bush (news - web sites). [/size]



    [size=-1] "Bush lies and who dies?" he asked. "My son, Jesus Suarez del Solar Navarro." [/size]



    [size=-1] The Marine lance corporal was killed in Iraq on March 27, 2003. [/size]



    [size=-1] For Bush "to get involved in an illegal war and to play with the emotions of the American people with 9-11 (September 11, 2001) for politics is wrong," he said. [/size]



    [size=-1] The march was organized by Military Families Speak Out, a group made up of people with relatives in the military, as well as the group Veterans for Peace. [/size]



    [size=-1] The bodies of dead US soldiers are flown into Dover, a base that has the military's largest mortuary. The government however has been reluctant to let cameras record airplanes unloading coffins, and reluctant to let news reporters interview personnel wounded in Iraq. [/size]



    [size=-1] Another marcher, Al McLaine, said he had 10 relatives in Iraq -- including his son, an army captain, who he said is "behind us 100 percent." [/size]



    [size=-1] "What Bush calls the war on terrorism is an impossible war because terrorism is a tactic," said McLaine. "You will not end terrorism by invading a country." [/size]



    [size=-1] The Sunday march was a "memorial procession" to "honor our fallen brothers and sisters, sons and daughters," as well as "Iraqis and the increasing number of people from other countries who have been killed and wounded," the group said in a statement. [/size]



    [size=-1] The protesters marched more than five kilometers (3.5 miles) from a local gathering center to the giant Air Force base, but were not allowed entry. [/size]



    [size=-1] According to the groups, the Bush administration "refuses to acknowledge the toll of this war -- including those who are killed and wounded." [/size]



    [size=-1] "We call on this administration to start telling the truth, and stop hiding the toll," Military Families Speak Out said in a statement. [/size]



    [size=-1] The protesters marched up to the base gates and read one by one the names of the US military personnel killed in Iraq. [/size]



    [size=-1] A similar protest is scheduled for Monday outside the Walter Reed Army Hospital in the US capital, to be followed by a protest march outside the White House. [/size]



    [size=-1] The protests are being held to coincide with the one-year anniversary of the US-led attack on Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s Iraq. [/size]
     
  9. Buckeye69

    Buckeye69 A.K.A. IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY

    "I believe people will vote their pocketbooks"

    This type of misguided voting would cost not only all of our pocketbooks, but untold American lives. Americans are a lot smarter than that. The majority of Americans understand that we won't have any pocketbooks if we don't take care of terrorists. I think its safe to say that Spain is headed in the wrong direction and is now going to be more vulnerable to terrorism. Americans aren't a bunch of pussies like the Spaniards who voted for socialism, the lapdog of the terrorists. That is precisely why a recent Gallop poll found that 80% of Americans placed the war on terrorism as the number one issue.
     
  10. buckeyebri

    buckeyebri Don’t Come Around Here No More....

    Gotta love those polls......

    I can't remember the last time that I was polled on anything remotely resembling current issues.
     
  11. LightningRod

    LightningRod Senior

    How is voting one's pocketbook considered misguided voting? Is the United States safer because Iraq was invaded and Saddam overthrown? If reducing the threat of terrorism is the goal, then find bin Laden and get out of Iraq.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2004
  12. RAMdrvr1

    RAMdrvr1 All Galaxy '14 NCAA Pick'em Champ


    I can't wait to hear the answer to that question.
     
  13. buckiprof

    buckiprof 21st Century Buckeye Man Staff Member

    Me too!
     
  14. LightningRod

    LightningRod Senior

    Since the Gallup Poll was specifically mentioned above as supporting the proposition that 80% of Americans view terrorism as the #1 issue in the upcoming election, I am attaching an excerpt from the most recent Gallup Poll regarding terrorism as an election issue in the US among registered voters:

    http://www.gallup.com/content/?ci=11020
     
  15. Woody1968

    Woody1968 Agent Provocateur

    I couldn't disagree more with this statement. The people of Spain were against the participation in Iraq from the get go. It would be just as easy to say that the terrorists chose to target Spain as a result of Spain's participation in the war.

    I don't have any problem with going after Osama. I do have a problem with tying up our military in Iraq, when the point of the War on Terror hasbeen to get those responsible for 9/11. We knew that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, so why go after him before we catch or kill Osama? It just doesn't make any sense. Also, I am not prone to requiring the use of tinfoil hats, but why now, in an election year 3 years after 9/11, do we suddenly intensify our attempts to catch Osama? It just doesn't make sense to me. This guy should have been caught along time ago.
     

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