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Spanish Election

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Nixon said:
Liberals are people who believe that government is the solution for many "social problems" such as health care.
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Nixon - I know woody1968 has pointed this out to you already, but you have no idea what a liberal is. Which has me wondering if you have any idea of what a conservative, let alone an ultra-conservative, really is.
 
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Only a socialist or a person with socialist leanings would suggest that the government take over even more industries than it already controls.
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Yeah, nice tactic. Someone disagrees with you call them a socialist, rather than contribute meaningfully. Very effective.

Yeah, and Canada's national health care system is the ideal, right? shheezz
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I don't recall saying anything about Canada's health care system. If I did, please point it out to me.
 
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Boro

Both democrats and republicans will be voting their pocketbooks. I don't see this as a democrat phenomena. What this particular poll favored by Buckeye69 suggests is that across the country at this point in time more people are worried about how the economy affects their lifestyle than any other issue. Those wanting better drug coverage under medicare are no more or no less "selfish" than those who fall into the top 1% income class and who desire further tax cuts.
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???

Where did I bring political parties into it? You sound very defensive. I spoke about why I thought it was a bad idea to "vote with (really for) your pocketbook." A novel approach would be to look at what would be best for the long-term good of our country and vote accordingly. You might do that and come up with a very different answer than me, but at least you'll have respected the decision and voted with your brain and/or heart instead of your pocketbook. I can respect the way you make a decision even if I disagree with the decision you make. Conversely, I can disagree with the reasoning you use for making a choice and still agree with the choice.


In summary:
The assertion was made that most people will be voting with their wallets.
The response was basically, "Gosh I hope not"
I was surprised that so many people seemed to disagree with the response.
I agreed with the response and backed it up.

This has nothing to do with political parties and/or socioeconomic status, just my opinion on whether or not it is misguided for ANYONE to "vote their wallet".
 
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I know exactly what a liberal and a conservative is by today's common parlance. I don't give a flying crap what you think these things are by your scholarly academic definitions. I am using "liberal" and "conservative" as they are commonly used in modern American politics.

"Yeah, nice tactic. Someone disagrees with you call them a socialist, rather than contribute meaningfully. Very effective."

It is not a tactic. It is a fact. Just because you feel that the word socialist has negative connotations does not change that fact. People who think the government should nationalize an industry are socialists or have socialist tendencies. You are very defensive of your belief when somebody calls it for what it is.
 
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ashlandbuck said:
Yeah, and Canada's national health care system is the ideal, right? shheezz
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I'm amused that people actually think the war on Iraq had anything to do with terrorism. Oh yeah, that's right. The 19 terrorists were actually born in Iraq, right? At least that's what the majority of Americans think so it must be true.

:shake:
 
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Nixon:

Well, since you admit that you have no interest in scholarly and academic things, it is no wonder that you have to resort to accusing people of being socialists, rather than providing us with a thoughtful well drafted response to our opinions on the issue of health care in America.

I really don't associate socialism as being inherantly negative, but I can see that you do, which is why I called you out on your wrong definition. It's cool though, if you don't want to learn anything new.

Now, as to the issue of this thread, which I believe is the Spanish Elections, It shouldn't be a suprise that the Socialist Party won. The socialist parties in France and Germany have been in control off and on for the past 20 years.

(and no, Nixon, Those countries have not imploded)
 
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Nixon said:
I know exactly what a liberal and a conservative is by today's common parlance. I don't give a flying crap what you think these things are by your scholarly academic definitions. I am using "liberal" and "conservative" as they are commonly used in modern American politics.




Nixon

I'm sure Woody and prof think that a liberal is a broad minded person that is tolarant of others view. They do not absolutely agree with the literal meaning of everything which of course means that if you are a conservative you are the opposite of these things. You must be dogmatic, intolerant, and narrow minded.
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ashlandbuck said:
Germany and France......The models of economic boom and stability.
What is the unemployment rate in France today? 20%?
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Who cares? The point is that socialism is a widely practiced system in Europe! Do you even bother to read the posts, or do you just throw a hissy fit everytime you see "Germany and France" mentioned?

ashlandbuck said:
I'm sure Woody and prof think that a liberal is a broad minded person that is tolarant of others view. They do not absolutely agree with the literal meaning of everything which of course means that if you are a conservative you are the opposite of these things. You are dogmatic, intolerant, and narrow minded.
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On the contrary, I know many conservatives who are not intolerant or narrowminded. I never said such nonsense.
 
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"Well, since you admit that you have no interest in scholarly and academic things,"

That is a proposterous strawman. I said that I do not care about buckiprof's scholarly definitions of "liberal" and "conservative"--I am using them in the way they are commonly used in American politics today. To take this and jump to your conclusion is laughable.

"it is no wonder that you have to resort to accusing people of being socialists"

I am not accusing you of being anything. I am taking what you have said your position is and saying that it is a socialist position...which it is. Socialism does not have to be a negative. I of course think it is, but if I was Lenin, I would take it as a compliment.

"rather than providing us with a thoughtful well drafted response to our opinions on the issue of health care in America."

My opinion on health care in America is very simple. I know of no industry which is cheaper, more efficient, and more responsive to consumer demand when run by the state than when run by private capitalists. And I have no reason to believe that health care is an exception to this.

"I really don't associate socialism as being inherantly negative, but I can see that you do, which is why I called you out on your wrong definition."

No, you don't which is fine. But then you shouldn't be afraid to accept what your beliefs are.

If you "accuse" me of being a capitalist, of despising utilitarianism, and of having some Randian/libertarian leanings on economics, I will not be angry. That is who I am. I am proud of that. I am not ashamed of what I believe. I do not care if somebody who does not like lassiez faire capitalism is opposed to me because I support some if not all of those ideals.

"(and no, Nixon, Those countries have not imploded"

I sure as heck wouldn't want to live there.
 
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My opinion on health care in America is very simple. I know of no industry which is cheaper, more efficient, and more responsive to consumer demand when run by the state than when run by private capitalists. And I have no reason to believe that health care is an exception to this.
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OK, one more time. I siad nationalize health insurance, not health care. Do you not understand the difference?

Believe me, I do not condone the nationalization of very many industries. I am as capitalistic as you. Capitalism pays my bills.
 
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Woody

Wait a second there learned one..... I can't believe you said "who cares" after chiding nixon for not caring to learn something.
You were the one that brought France into this conversation and when I try to enlighten you to the fact that their system is inherently bad and all you have to do to know that is to look at various economic indicators, you respond by saying,"who cares"? Rather narrow minded, don't you think.
 
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Wait a second there learned one..... I can't believe you said "who cares" after chiding nixon for not caring to learn something.
You were the one that brought France into this conversation and when I try to enlighten you to the fact that their system is inherently bad and all you have to do to know that is to look at various economic indicators, you respond by saying,"who cares"? Rather narrow minded, don't you think.
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Uh, excuse me, but Nixon was throwing a bunch of terms around and using them incorrectly. I mentioned, in reference to a completely different topic, that the victory of the Spanish Socialist Party is not an anomoly in comparison to other European countries.
 
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