Ken
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Talking 10 Trolls Ohio State.. again
Ken via our good friends at Buckeye Battle Cry
Visit their fantastic blog and read the full article (and so much more) here
.. and still can’t get it right.
(Image courtesy gizmodo.com)
I had a little article brought to my attention on Thursday. Basically, Andy weaves a tale with what appear to be two story lines; the first story is to create a context for his second story, which is the real story.
First Fable
Andy starts off with this declaration:
The Ohio State Buckeyes took down Akron in the first round of the NIT on Tuesday night, if you weren’t paying attention. It was but a first step in a stated goal to win the whole tournament for Thad Matta’s crew.
Nowhere in the linked article, read it for yourself, is there any indication that the team’s goal is to “win the whole tournament”. Nowhere. Perhaps that how JaQuan Lyle’s comment of’…
“Nobody in the locker room wants to see this season come to an end.”
… was construed. Or, perhaps it was Cleveland.com’s writer Bill Landis’ opinion that ” If this is all the Buckeyes have to play for right now, then they intend on trying to make the most of however long this lasts.”
If the coaching staff and the team feel there will be benefits accruing to a team, especially this young of a team, through additional post-season practices and games, then there indeed may be some value to it.
If your story is based on a premise that this flawed team’s goal is to “win the whole tournament”, then your premise, and story are flawed. If you are additionally stating something that hasn’t been stated, that’s flawed, too.
Second Fable
The next fable was an extensive narrative that tries to make a point that success in the NIT does not translate to ensuing success in the NCAA’s. He cited NIT titles for Penn State (2009), Stanford (2012) and Minnesota (2014) and the failures of those teams to accomplish much in the NCAA in subsequent years.
There are three flaws with this narrative. Here’s what they are:
So, Andy’s implication that ‘there is no value’ to winning an NIT, based on his select examples, is cherry picking. If you’re going to cherry-pick, use more cherries.
Third Fable
By this point, he is pulling crap out of his netherparts to reach the point of his article; Thad Matta is a short-timer as Ohio State’s coach. Here we go, from the Talking 10 article (ed: emphasis mine):
Of course, OSU is also in a much different position given its historical successes and all of that. But, this is a team that has consistently brought in the upper echelon of recruiting talent over the past few years and couldn’t find a winning formula.
And all of what? In addition to “historical success”, what else would be included in the “all-encompassing-tells-me-nothing phrase, “and all of that”. That’s not showing enough respect to your readers to even give a damn.
Yes, sometimes there is a downside to recruiting “upper echelon” talent. You should know that it takes time to mold ‘players’ into a ‘team’. Sometimes the talent is so “upper echelon” it decides to leave early for the NBA. We can’t all be Kentucky, you realize…
OK, enough of that nonsense; now we sweep to the grand fallacy of the Talking 10 article:
If not, we could be seeing the end of the Thad Matta era at OSU before our very eyes over the next few years.
So, Andy thinks that if Thad doesn’t win the NIT, which was never a stated goal, with a team that is young and “under construction”, his job is in jeopardy? Good god, that is some desperate click-bait trolling. If you knew anything about this team, the fact that they accomplished 20 wins is an accomplishment. Achieving (non-conference) post-season play was a dream, not a potential reason for job termination.
Look, sometimes I get frustrated with OSU teams performances and I am not shy about writing commentary with some “what the hell, Thad?” and “what the hell, Urban?”, but to suggest that a one-off season performance starts the job clock ticking is ludicrous.
To be honest, he does have a point that there is a non-zero chance that “sometime over the next few years”, Thad may not be coaching at Ohio State. There is also a non-zero chance that I may drop over dead. Once we define the “next few years” number, then you can place your over/under bets on both events.
Wrap-up
A couple months ago, I had this response to Andy’s “concern” about how Urban may have to deal with the ‘next man up’ concept at Ohio State and this response to his “concern” about, what he felt, were Ohio State’s football recruiting inadequacies compared to the likes of Michigan and Michigan State. These articles were written in mid-January 2016.
My response, summary form, of this latest go-round of trolling for clicks:,
The post Talking 10 Trolls Ohio State.. again appeared first on The Buckeye Battle Cry: Ohio State News and Commentary.
Continue reading...
Ken via our good friends at Buckeye Battle Cry
Visit their fantastic blog and read the full article (and so much more) here
.. and still can’t get it right.
(Image courtesy gizmodo.com)
I had a little article brought to my attention on Thursday. Basically, Andy weaves a tale with what appear to be two story lines; the first story is to create a context for his second story, which is the real story.
First Fable
Andy starts off with this declaration:
The Ohio State Buckeyes took down Akron in the first round of the NIT on Tuesday night, if you weren’t paying attention. It was but a first step in a stated goal to win the whole tournament for Thad Matta’s crew.
Nowhere in the linked article, read it for yourself, is there any indication that the team’s goal is to “win the whole tournament”. Nowhere. Perhaps that how JaQuan Lyle’s comment of’…
“Nobody in the locker room wants to see this season come to an end.”
… was construed. Or, perhaps it was Cleveland.com’s writer Bill Landis’ opinion that ” If this is all the Buckeyes have to play for right now, then they intend on trying to make the most of however long this lasts.”
If the coaching staff and the team feel there will be benefits accruing to a team, especially this young of a team, through additional post-season practices and games, then there indeed may be some value to it.
If your story is based on a premise that this flawed team’s goal is to “win the whole tournament”, then your premise, and story are flawed. If you are additionally stating something that hasn’t been stated, that’s flawed, too.
Second Fable
The next fable was an extensive narrative that tries to make a point that success in the NIT does not translate to ensuing success in the NCAA’s. He cited NIT titles for Penn State (2009), Stanford (2012) and Minnesota (2014) and the failures of those teams to accomplish much in the NCAA in subsequent years.
There are three flaws with this narrative. Here’s what they are:
- It’s not really relevant.
- The Big Ten teams cited by Andy are mediocre-bad basketball programs. Minnesota has not been an upper tier B1G program since the mid-1980’s. Over the past 47 years, the Penn State basketball program has a sub-.500 winning percentage. The NIT championships were outlier accomplishments for these schools.
- In his article, these post-NIT “failures” are placed in a vacuum. We already know that his examples are not championship-caliber teams. Was part of their subsequent NCAA failures due to improvements in the level of play of their conference opponents/competitors? We don’t know. He doesn’t say.
So, Andy’s implication that ‘there is no value’ to winning an NIT, based on his select examples, is cherry picking. If you’re going to cherry-pick, use more cherries.
Third Fable
By this point, he is pulling crap out of his netherparts to reach the point of his article; Thad Matta is a short-timer as Ohio State’s coach. Here we go, from the Talking 10 article (ed: emphasis mine):
Of course, OSU is also in a much different position given its historical successes and all of that. But, this is a team that has consistently brought in the upper echelon of recruiting talent over the past few years and couldn’t find a winning formula.
And all of what? In addition to “historical success”, what else would be included in the “all-encompassing-tells-me-nothing phrase, “and all of that”. That’s not showing enough respect to your readers to even give a damn.
Yes, sometimes there is a downside to recruiting “upper echelon” talent. You should know that it takes time to mold ‘players’ into a ‘team’. Sometimes the talent is so “upper echelon” it decides to leave early for the NBA. We can’t all be Kentucky, you realize…
OK, enough of that nonsense; now we sweep to the grand fallacy of the Talking 10 article:
If not, we could be seeing the end of the Thad Matta era at OSU before our very eyes over the next few years.
So, Andy thinks that if Thad doesn’t win the NIT, which was never a stated goal, with a team that is young and “under construction”, his job is in jeopardy? Good god, that is some desperate click-bait trolling. If you knew anything about this team, the fact that they accomplished 20 wins is an accomplishment. Achieving (non-conference) post-season play was a dream, not a potential reason for job termination.
Look, sometimes I get frustrated with OSU teams performances and I am not shy about writing commentary with some “what the hell, Thad?” and “what the hell, Urban?”, but to suggest that a one-off season performance starts the job clock ticking is ludicrous.
To be honest, he does have a point that there is a non-zero chance that “sometime over the next few years”, Thad may not be coaching at Ohio State. There is also a non-zero chance that I may drop over dead. Once we define the “next few years” number, then you can place your over/under bets on both events.
Wrap-up
A couple months ago, I had this response to Andy’s “concern” about how Urban may have to deal with the ‘next man up’ concept at Ohio State and this response to his “concern” about, what he felt, were Ohio State’s football recruiting inadequacies compared to the likes of Michigan and Michigan State. These articles were written in mid-January 2016.
My response, summary form, of this latest go-round of trolling for clicks:,
- Despite not making the NCAA’s, this program had a pretty good year, particularly when taken in context of inexperience and injuries. I thought it was a nice job of coaching and teaching by Thad.
- Andy showed a dilettantish approach to writing this hit piece. Doing journalistic research doesn’t take all that much time.
- But, if you set the point of an article to be fatuous, you can game the data to support your “conclusion”.
- In addition to the articles from January (above), he has demonstrated what he his. Now, it becomes a matter of haggling over the price.
The post Talking 10 Trolls Ohio State.. again appeared first on The Buckeye Battle Cry: Ohio State News and Commentary.
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