Talking Religion...

[DontHateOState]

Prove it!

Seriously, there are divergences that make that difficult to say as "fact". However, who's to limit the possibility?

There are divergences, but the genealogy of Abraham through Ishmael and Isaac is the basis of all three major monotheistic religions. Muslims accept that the Jewish God is the same God while Christians do likewise although the incarnate forms obviously present a very different view.

Just a suggestion: it would be best to refrain from such statements as they are not always correct.

You will be hard pressed to find a credible scholar who still believes that Jesus the man was a myth. Robert Price is the only one I can think of at the moment. And he is a Gnostic.

Actually, it is debatable. Are you game?

Very much. My response will have to come at a slightly later time,though.

 

[Taosman]

There is a long history of gods mating with humans going back before the Bible. That cannot be just ignored or dismissed. The Bible is just repeating old, very old stories from other cultures. There is no ultimate "Truth" here. Just more retelling of stories to make a point. This is not to say that there is no value in these stories. Because obviously they have great value in teaching so they get retold, again and again through millennium.

How the Greek and Roman Gods & Goddesses Came to Be

November 30, 2007 by

Charlotte Kuchinsky
The gods and goddesses of ancient Greece and Rome were far closer to human beings than some of the gods of other types of mythology. In fact, they constantly interacted with mankind on the human level whereas many other ancient gods remained "above" it all.

Because of this constant interaction between the gods and mankind, it was an unwritten law of the land that Greeks and Romans should be kind to all strangers, lest one of them prove to be a god who had taken on human form. The Egyptians often went a step further by equating certain humans like the pharaoh as the earthly form of a living god or goddess.

Some of the gods preferred interacting, and even mating, with humans over their own kind. Unfortunately, they weren't always up front and honest about who they were when they chose to mate with a human, resulting in a range of half-human, half-god like creatures that didn't fit into either world. In that respect, they weren't that much different than the inter-racial or inter-culture pairings of modern time.
How the Greek and Roman Gods & Goddesses Came to Be - Associated Content

Plenty of historical evidence of Jesus the man, existing. But, what of the "Immaculate Conception"? And what of the so-called "miracles" he performed?
In matters of "faith" believe what you will.

 

[muffler dragon]

There are divergences, but the genealogy of Abraham through Ishmael and Isaac is the basis of all three major monotheistic religions. Muslims accept that the Jewish God is the same God while Christians do likewise although the incarnate forms obviously present a very different view.

I didn't say this in my original post; therefore, I'll take the time now.

Ultimately, the believers of these three religions (as well as any other) may very well all worship the same G-d. However, this cannot be determined by text. Here's why:

1) Muslims believe that the Jewish Bible is corrupted. Thus, there are major discrepances (not least of which is the Ishmael/Isaac thing).
2) The Christian Testament is a divergence from the Jewish Bible to the point that the foundation is questionable.

I'm not as learned on the Muslim-Jewish differences; however, I'm very knowledgeable on the differences between Jewish Bible and the Christian testament.

You will be hard pressed to find a credible scholar who still believes that Jesus the man was a myth. Robert Price is the only one I can think of at the moment. And he is a Gnostic.

I would say that there are two additional phases that can be looked at in this regard:

1) Was Jesus one person that existed? Or an amalgamation?
2) Were the acts and words by Jesus historical? Or a fabrication?

For me, it's essentially becomes a moot point as Jesus is irrelevant to me; however, the discussions are enjoyable.

I'll attempt to see what credible sources I can find that consider Jesus to have been mythical.

Very much. My response will have to come at a slightly later time,though.

Cool beans. I hope that you realize that by accepting to "debate" the topic, you are admitting that the topic is, indeed, "debatable". Thus, if that's the sole premise we'll be working with; then you've already conceded. However, there are many other things that we can discuss that are tangentially related that would be worth delving into.

 

[Bleed S & G]

Abraham immediately comes to mind as someone with a bigger impact than Jesus..

 

[jwinslow]

 

[muffler dragon]

Abraham immediately comes to mind as someone with a bigger impact than Jesus..

I would agree.

 

[jwinslow]

I would agree.

150 years on a primarily national scale vs 2000 years on a global scale...

 

[JimsSweaterVest]

Good to see you guys kept the discussion going.

3. When religion becomes child abuse... does religious faith take precedence over the child's well-being?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/21/us/21faith.html?_r=2

WESTON, Wis. ? Kara Neumann, 11, had grown so weak that she could not walk or speak. Her parents, who believe that God alone has the ability to heal the sick, prayed for her recovery but did not take her to a doctor......


About 300 children have died in the United States in the last 25 years after medical care was withheld on religious grounds, said Rita Swan, executive director of Children?s Health Care Is a Legal Duty, a group based in Iowa that advocates punishment for parents who do not seek medical help when their children need it. Criminal codes in 30 states, including Wisconsin, provide some form of protection for practitioners of faith healing in cases of child neglect and other matters, protection that Ms. Swan?s group opposes. ...

 

[muffler dragon]

150 years on a primarily national scale vs 2000 years on a global scale...

Actually, considering the first diaspora, we could consider Abraham (and a much closer descendent, Moses) on a national scale a few centuries before Jesus. Furthermore, the Christian explosion didn't occur until post 325 CE.

Lastly, without the former, one does not have the latter; thus, primacy should account for something. Don't you think?

edit: It just came to me that we should probably determine whether we're talking about the religious outcome of the people were discussing or if we're talking about the people in particular. Which way are you talking about?

 

[jwinslow]

It's time to quit and go looking for my brain... lincoln

 

[muffler dragon]

Good to see you guys kept the discussion going.

3. When religion becomes child abuse... does religious faith take precedence over the child's well-being?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/21/us/21faith.html?_r=2

I liken this kind of idiocy to a quote by Einstein:

"He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."

Human beings were given a brain for a reason. Use should be a requirement.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

It's time to quit and go looking for my brain... lincoln

I wondered if that's what you were thinking. Seemed like a strange response.

 

[BayBuck]

150 years on a primarily national scale vs 2000 years on a global scale...

Are we talking about Lincoln or Father Abraham here? (Moses is another biggie.) Abraham's certainly a big name for Jews, Christians and Muslims, but Jesus is THE guy for the religion with the most adherents on earth.

 

[jwinslow]

I wondered if that's what you were thinking. Seemed like a strange response.

I'm pretty sure I'm illiterate today, hopefully temporarily.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Good to see you guys kept the discussion going.

3. When religion becomes child abuse... does religious faith take precedence over the child's well-being?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/21/us/21faith.html?_r=2

Seeing as you're not allowed to commit a crime in the name of religion, these wackos should go to jail since refusing medical care to someone in need is a crime. Put those fuckers in a cell with no food or water and let them pray to whomever to keep them alive.