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This is worse than Clarett.

Look, I'm not saying what Troy did is WORSE than what Clarett did, I'm saying the ending result of what's going on makes this more damaging than the Clarett fiasco. More of a "straw that broke the camel's back" type of thing.

you're absolutely right, there are very few facts about what is going on, I'm just using logical speculation that Troy was receiving illegal benefits.

This is the 3rd major violation in the last 2 years, that's what is frustrating! Actually it's well over 3 violations, but it just involves 3 different parties. Clarett, O'bie, and now Troy Smith.

There are some very serious problems going on at the university and it's not ESPN's fault nor the NCAA's. Yes, it's boosters and greedy athletes, and in Obie's case personally paying money to a recruit. What will it take for people to realize that there is a control problem here?

We can't control our players, Geiger didn't control Obie, and we can't control the Boosters. I'm proud that our players as a whole are performing better in the classroom, and I'm certainly glad that we whooped Michigan. But, I'm so very disappointed in our athletes in the community. More arrests than ever and more scandals than ever. Somebody has to pay and the common thread through all this is Geiger.

Of course if it comes down to Troy receiving a free t-shirt or something, I'll recant all this and ding myself into scum oblivion. However, the speculation points elsewhere.
 
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The thing that disturbs me about Smith is a deep character issue. He has had problems with character dating back to high school. I understand that he is still young, but I'm tired of that fucking excuse. I am young, but does that make me do what is wrong, and use the whole "I didn't know better" as an excuse, hell no. He has now messed up a couple of times in his career at OSU, so this is not an isolated issue. Is this the direction that Tressel wants his program to go? I truly believe that they need to come down hard on Smith to stop the bleeding.

What tone does it set for the team if your leader is not leading by example?
 
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The thing that disturbs me about Smith is a deep character issue. He has had problems with character dating back to high school.

First things first... what are these HS 'character issues'?

And by the way (daddy, I'm not talking to you on this impneding rant)... all of you "I told you soers" on this board today who have all of the sudden brought about Troy Smith because of said issues... whatever they may be... go fuck yourselves. You know who you are...where the fuck were you after the Michigan Game? kissing his ass... not telling us the kid is really a slimebag... which by the way, I don' think he is.

What tone does it set for the team if your leader is not leading by example?

Is Smith the leader or is Tressel the leader?

Just a question. Should you expect more form the Quarterback? What about Zwick?
 
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Is Smith the leader or is Tressel the leader?
Both. I've heard many people talk up Smith and his leadership ability, and that is one of his strong points to the team.

Just a question. Should you expect more form the Quarterback? What about Zwick?
What about Zwick? Has he ever been suspended? Maybe he takes money too, I guess that he doesn't flash it around as much :wink2: . I will never doubt Smith's ability on the field, I think he is a great QB. I am just saying that these incidents have to stop. Smith has been suspended twice in two years.


what are these H.S. 'character issues'?

I have highlighted the stuff below, and comments that I find hypocritical.

TROY SMITH
Extra ordinary
With several influential experiences behind him, this product of East Cleveland has risen to the challenge of playing QB at Ohio State
Sunday, July 25, 2004
Ken Gordon
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

CHRIS RUSSELL | DISPATCH
Troy Smith had an offer to play at West Virginia but picked the Buckeyes. "Ohio State was a perfect fit for me," he said.

DORAL CHENOWETH III | DISPATCH
Troy Smith could have taken an easier road in college, but instead he welcomed the opportunity to prove himself with the Buckeyes.

he streets of East Cleveland shaped Troy Smith. They stamped toughness and resilience into him. Those traits have helped him overcome adversity and led him somewhere most people didn’t think possible a few years ago: Smith has a legitimate chance to be Ohio State’s starting quarterback this fall.
But, ironically, Smith didn’t fully grasp the lessons of the street until he left them.

Spending several years out of his neighborhood and his element led Smith to his lowest point — an ugly incident during a basketball game — and showed the youngster that he was not meant to flee his neighborhood, but embrace it.

Only after returning home did he begin to realize that for him, the tougher path was the one he must travel.

‘‘God chooses different roads for you — you’re put in different situations for a reason," Smith said. ‘‘That’s what separates the men from the mice."
sidenote: Or you can put yourself in those situations.
Smith spoke for about 30 minutes after a recent summer morning workout, relaxing in a chair in the Woody Hayes Athletic Center players’ lounge. Smith is bright, engaging and surprisingly contemplative for someone who turned 20 on Tuesday.

He talks of his upbringing not with bitterness, but matter-offactly. Tracy Smith was a single mother (Troy’s father has never been part of his life), and she worked hard to give direction to Troy and older sister Britany, now 24.

‘‘I worked a lot with them at home," Tracy said. ‘‘I started early with them on the colors and the ABCs, like age 1 or 2."

Still, life beyond their door was not pretty. Troy Smith said he grew up witnessing fights, drug sales and ‘‘cops beating people up."

There was a code to follow, as well.

‘‘Being an African-American child growing up in the ghetto, it’s not easy," Smith said. ‘‘It’s not a cakewalk, because every day your character and your strength, all of that is going to be tested (by) your peers. You either show up or you stay in the house."
Fortunately for him, he found his life’s passion early. By 7, he was bugging his mother to let him watch practices of the local Cleveland Municipal League football team, the Glenville A’s.

At 9, he joined the club. Coaches Irvin White and Clay Thompson became Smith’s first male role models, demanding their players pull a B average in school or not play.

‘‘They always stressed being extra ordinary," Smith said, ‘‘and I say it as two words because they really were extra ordinary."

As high school approached, Smith was being wooed by parochial schools. His public school, Glenville, had an upand-coming football team, but Smith and his mother decided on Lakewood St. Edward.

Smith said he was seduced by St. Edward’s reputation and schedule, playing many of the powerhouse Cleveland schools.

And Tracy said, ‘‘I thought academicwise (St. Edward) would be a better surrounding."

Racial tension


Even though St. Edward is only about 10 miles west of Glenville, the schools are worlds apart culturally. Smith said he constantly faced racism.

‘‘There were a number of times where I would come back to my locker and there would be (a sign on my locker), ‘Go back to Africa’ — all types of crazy stuff," he said. ‘‘It was bad. I was filled with so much anger."

Smith did not tell his mother about these incidents, though.

‘‘I used to come home and tell my mom, ‘I do not want to be there,’ " Smith said. ‘‘She was like, ‘When you start something, finish it out.’ I wouldn’t tell her about the (racial) things that went on because she would’ve protested — came up there, did something."

Nor did he ever complain to a St. Edward coach or official.

‘‘I didn’t think they cared," Smith said.

Eric Flannery, Smith’s basketball coach at St. Edward, said that in general he did not think St. Edward had a race-relations problem.

‘‘The only thing I can say is that our school is not very diverse," Flannery said. ‘‘The student population is about 4 or 5 percent minority. So there’s no question (an African-American) is not the norm, and I’d be blind to say nothing like (Smith described) has ever happened.

‘‘But we’ve had a very successful rate of minorities come through school who have done very well without much complaint."

Smith starred on the football and basketball teams, but by the winter of his junior year his anger boiled over.

In a Dec. 16, 2000, basketball game against Toledo St. John’s, Smith said he endured constant taunting from St. John’s guard John Floyd. Finally, Smith leveled Floyd with a flagrant elbow to the head. Floyd left the game with a concussion.
Although the officials missed it and Smith finished the game, a later video review revealed the act. St. Edward principal Eugene Boyer kicked Smith off the team for the rest of the season.

Smith didn’t disagree with the punishment and was resentful that the story appeared in the newspaper on Dec. 24. ‘‘I’m getting ready for Christmas and that story broke," he said. ‘‘That hurt my family big time. My mother was crying."

Smith never returned to St. Edward. He enrolled at Glenville, where the student population is 99 percent black.

He had to apply to the Ohio High School Athletic Association in order to be reinstated for spring sports. Commissioner Clair Muscaro asked Smith to write a letter of apology to Floyd. Copies were sent to St. Edward and the OHSAA.

Smith and his mother recall him spending several hours composing the letter, which read:

‘‘I would like to apologize sincerely to you, your parents and everyone at Toledo St. John’s. It is a moment I have thought about over and over again. I regret my actions and your injury and am truly sorry you had to miss a game. I sincerely regret it. I understand now the magnitude and seriousness of the infraction and regret it not only athletically, but spiritually and from a moralistic standpoint, as well. I pray you can accept this in the manner it is given, and I wish you continued success in basketball and your future career. Sincerely, Troy Smith."

He was reinstated.

Flannery marveled at the letter.

‘‘That was very impressive, and speaks to what kind of kid he is," he said.

Looking back, Smith views the experience as happening for a reason. That reason might well have been Ted Ginn, Smith’s football coach at Glenville.

In a short time, Ginn became a father figure to Smith, to the point that Smith now says, ‘‘I don’t make a move without consulting him. If it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t have had anything now."

Ginn said that when Smith arrived from St. Edward, ‘‘He was just like a lemon — sour. We had to take that bitterness out of him before we could really see the real Troy Smith."

Perfect fit


Smith and his pals hit the football camps in the summer of 2001, and he performed well enough to be invited to the Elite 11 camp in California for top quarterbacks.

By February 2002, he was weighing college offers. Mid-American Conference schools and West Virginia promised him immediate shots at starting quarterback jobs. Ohio State was pursuing him ‘‘as an athlete," and also was wooing All-American Justin Zwick in the same class.

Smith, though, chose the Buckeyes. He did it to challenge himself.

‘‘There were situations where I could have gone in and been ‘The Man’ " Smith said. ‘‘But that’s not what I needed, that type of pressure on me. I needed to be where I can come and be comfortable within myself, where my coaches (and) my family can come (watch me play) because I need that backbone, I need that support.

‘‘Ohio State was a perfect fit for me."

Passing game coordinator and quarterbacks coach Joe Daniels said he thought the challenge of proving himself at OSU ‘‘actually intrigued Troy.

‘‘I think that Troy wants to play at the highest level he could play and challenge himself the most, and I believe that’s why he came here. He’s not going to choose the easy road."

Smith said he already is proud of himself for getting to where he is now: A close second to Zwick in the quarterback competition, probably a lot closer than most people predicted.

He has a burning desire to start but said he won’t pout if he’s No. 2.

‘‘(Backup quarterback) Scott (McMullen) came in and was very, very, very positive for the team last year," Smith said. ‘‘If we didn’t have Scott in a couple situations, we wouldn’t have been able to win a couple games we won. Regardless of if I start or Justin starts, we need a good, solid guy to back one another up.

‘‘That’s a team, because football is not going to be life-lasting. And how you tackle situations in football is the same way that you tackle situations in life. Because if I’m not the No. 1 guy in a business corporation, I’m still going to fight and pull for the corporation that I work for."
Did Troy demonstrate this with the selfish actions that he just demonstrated?
Smith and his mother look back and realize their error in deciding to have him flee East Cleveland.

‘‘His culture as a black young man, he needed to enhance that more," Tracy said. ‘‘You can’t do that by leaving the ’hood."

A communications major who made the dean’s list winter quarter, Smith is active in mentoring Glenville youths when he returns home.

He is passionate that his children one day will attend his alma mater, because now he appreciates the fire that forged him.

‘‘I don’t want my kids to have to go through a cakewalk," he said, eyes gleaming with conviction. ‘‘If they’re not faced with adversity, (then) when adversity comes, you don’t know how to deal with it. My kids are going to Glenville. That’s what made me who I am."


[email protected]

archive

At the time this was a fantastic piece, but it loses its luster if Smith does not practice what he preaches. He came across as a changed man in this article who has survived the hardships of the ghetto, great story. But how can you throw this spiritual shit out and talk about being a role model when you are doing wrong things behind closed doors. Its hypocritical, and reminds me of the stories that I used to read about MoC and how he had such a hard life, and he used that as fuel to play ball, but in turn used it as fuel to do the wrong things off the field.

Buckeye Football Players Charged With Disorderly Conduct
Charges Come After Geiger Called Investigation Over

UPDATED: 9:30 a.m. EST November 21, 2003

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Ohio State starting wide reciever Santonio Holmes and fourth-string quarterback Troy Smith were charged with disorderly conduct Thursday, four days after they were allegedly involved in an altercation near Ohio Stadium.

WCMH also reported that five women were also charged in connection with the incident.

Holmes 19, and Smith, 19, were allegedly involved in an incident near the loop around Morrill Tower early Sunday.

The university released a statement late Thursday afternoon, not including either players' name. According to the statement, one of the women also will be charged with misdemeanor criminal damaging for allegedly kicking out a window in a car.

According to a complaint, Ohio State police received separate phone calls early Sunday morning from two groups of women regarding a fight that occurred between them in a parking lot near Morrill Tower. Police learned that the two groups had been involved in an altercation, and that the disagreements began Saturday night at Studio 69, a nightclub located on Sinclair Road.
link Although this was not in high school, it signifies another incident.

Buckeyes' QB Smith suspended for bowl game
Columbus, OH (Sports Network) - Quarterback Troy Smith will not play for the Ohio State Buckeyes in the Alamo Bowl because on Monday head coach Jim Tressel suspended him for violating team and NCAA rules.

"All of our players, including Troy, know they have a number of responsibilities to fulfill in order to have the privilege of playing at Ohio State," said Tressel. "Troy has not fulfilled those responsibilities and therefore will not be able to play in the Alamo Bowl."

Smith started the last five games of the regular season and directed the Buckeyes to a 4-1 record.

"I am aware of what is expected, both on and off the field, at Ohio State and I have fallen short of those expectations," said Smith. "I accept this penalty and wish my teammates the very best in the bowl game."
continued link

Third issue now. If he wasn't the starting QB what would be said about him? I think more on this board would share my opinion. I understand that these are all separate issues that are not a huge deal, but I am saying that he seems to be around when bad things happen. Playing at OSU is privlege, and I think that you owe it to the university to keep your nose clean.
 
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I also remember him saying that. My point is that someone who is always in the wrong place at the wrong time shouldn't be there in the first place

Oh bullshit..

Honestly- while I do see some mildly hypocritical things in his statements in those articles... I don't see any "Deep Character" issues... the only bad thing he did previously (HS) is give a kid a concussion in a Basketball game... Big Fucking Deal. I'm defintely a bad seed if a concussion is all it takes.

Great Post Award? For trying to show what a bad kid Troy Smith is?

Where was all this shit all season.. daddy? Why didn't you tell is this was coming... Why didn't you tell the coaches? you knew he was a bad seed and you didn't say anything?

What a fucking joke....
 
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found it

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</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- / user info --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1><!-- message, attachments, sig --><!-- message -->DuJuan was in the towers parking lot, so was Dennis Kennedy, Anthony Reddick, Nate Salley, Chris Gamble and myself. It was a BS incident, that did not involve any of my kids. It had nothing to do with Morgan's offer being pulled. It was a mater of risk that Coach T. did not want to take, as he had not been playing for a year.

With Rutledge, he had only 2 years of playing. 6'7"/ 4.87 speed and 24 pancakes. His grades were never an issue. Snyder just did a extreemly bad job of recruiting and selling kids to Tressel. I see or talk to Chris daily. He will be the next Pace, only for Miami.

Jacky, who had been offered, did have a grades concern. However, he had been up to Camp, 2 unofficals and never given an official. Jacky is actually a better player than Chris. Again, Snyder did a very bad job with him. He will be a great lineman for FSU.
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What is it going to take to send a message to these IDIOT boosters that give money to these IDIOT players? Seriously, why aren't people more outraged about the jackoffs who claim to be fans giving these players money, getting them and the university in trouble, ultimately punishing other innocent players and the rest of us fans?

Where's the outrage? Screw these boosters... ban them from Ohio Stadium.
 
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I remember the day Jim Tressel made his acceptance speech in Jan. of 2001. I still have it on tape today. What an impressive speech it was. Here stood this "Knight in Shining armour" and from what he said, you had to believe he was gonna be the man to bring us back to prominence. And in 1 short year it amazingly happened. Believe me, alot of people in the sports media, sat up and began to take notice of his accomplishments. 4 N/C's while at Y-Town and now 1 at Ohio State. How could this be ?

As you all know when a football team wins a National Championship, they are immidiately put under the microscope and di-sected. This is the Price you pay. While at Youngstown, Tressel gained fame with all his accolades and he was scrutinized to the hilt, but it did not hit the presses because it was "Only Youngstown and who really cares". Now all things are different since it happens to be Ohio State that is under the knife, so to speak.

My gut feeling is that someone, somewhere in Ohio is out to get back at Jim Tressel and they are going to make every effort possible to bring this guy back to reality in thier eyes. Something along time ago--had to happen between Jim Tressel and whoever wants to get even with him. I lived in Youngstown in his era and alot of things still go on up there. Two of my friends Steve Almasy and Kevin Almasy (his son) have been convicted of Illegal gambling in 2003 and are now being sentened to 15 to 24 months.
The sad part about all of this is that it had been going on for 10 to 12 years and nothing was ever said. Now all of sudden they are going to prison The big question is WHY/

And now the big question is WHY is all this going on at Ohio State. We have great tradition here and I certainly hope its not on the verge of extinction. It would be very sad if all this does Occur. Lets hope its just a minor thing and it goes away before ESPN can go digging around again.
 
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AKA,

Good to see that you are in the holiday spirit, perhaps your last rant deserved a great post award also.

Great Post Award? For trying to show what a bad kid Troy Smith is?
What are you talking about? I am just backing up my claims stating that he has had character issues. As I have stated in earlier posts, from what I hear he is a good kid, and a good leader. My point is that if he is always around trouble he may not be as innocent as you think he is.

Where was all this shot all season.. daddy? Why didn't you tell is this was coming... Why didn't you tell the coaches? you knew he was a bad seed and you didn't say anything?
I didn't know this was coming so quit the petty bullshit, but if you go back to my days at bucknuts you will find posts during the recruiting of Smith, where I stated that he his past problems could be signs of more problems in the future. It was not from anything that I personally knew of Smith, but what others have said. I have supported Smith this season, and thought that he was going to be our star of the future. Maybe I am disappointed with Smith, I thought that he had turned a corner, but now gets into trouble again.

Actually AKA, I did send Tressel an email about Smith, but did not receive any response. :slappy: :bonk:

For the record, I do not have a problem with Smith, but I certainly have a problem with what he has just done. Quit with the kids will be kids shit because it's getting old, Smith is an adult and he knows what he is getting himself into.

By the way, there is a difference between character issues, and "Deep" character issues.
 
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Take a big breath and relax. I sense that many fans and posters are very up-set that this seems to be happening again. However, so far, nothing has been said or done that would indicate that this is anything more than a very bad decision by Smith. I would be very surprised if the NCAA gets involved more wtih this simply because Gieger has been very up front about NCAA involvement or the possibility of their involvement in all the other indiscretions that have presented themselves. I also see this as a possible water shed moment for the team. If Smith and OSU handle this well it really could help turn the corner for this team by truly setting the example so that others on the team will stop themselves before making a similar mistake. Regardless, it is far to early to panic or call for heads to roll. All the details will surface in the next day or two and well will know more then.
 
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I agree, let's not get out of control with wild rumors and Tressel bashing until we know ( if indeed we do get to know) what is was that caused this latest concern. My thinking is that it may be something small but with all the NCAA attention on tOSU Geiger and Tress want to get it out now and get on with the program.
 
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Give it a rest!

A young man made a mistake. As I recall Woody gave a player(s) some pocket money in the late 50's and OSU was put on probation. These kids, I'm 61 are just that kids. If you never screwed up go ahead and rant. Please remember it's only a game, not life and death. I like reading many of the post, but some of you folks are way out of line with what really matters in life. Enjoy the Bucks and remember what it was like to be a kid. How do you think TS must feel, so give'm a break and enjoy the games, whatever happens. NOBODY is perfect.
 
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