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Tony Joiner (Former S Florida Gators)

DaddyBigBucks;950471; said:
Then why are there 26 posts of yours in this thread (some of them very long)? Do you often invest so much time on things from which you expect little?

OK, I just described marriage. I mean besides that.
:groove:


What'd you expect the ignorant dregs of a corrupt program to say?
:slappy:
 
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A classic example of the law being about the proof and not about the truth. What he did was felony.... he just won't be convicted. Fortunately for this kid he's in the perfect situation (right town, school, coach and luckily the right fan) to do something criminal and face no real consequences.
 
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OK, come clean. Is that you X-Ray? :slappy:

Gatorubet;950465; said:
As to your "we" comment, I haven't seen a lock step uniformity of thought on this site on most issues, and so decline your invitation to make my response a "me versus the Buckeye board" dynamic, so I will limit my response to just you right now....

Clearly, your comments are addressed to a Buckeye board. Perhaps you haven't realized from the posts here that your supporters seem to be few in number, in fact (0)? :confused:

Gatorubet;950465; said:
As to whether TJ had spoken to the tow lot people before he went there to get his girlfriend's car back, I can only say that only anyone who was actually there could know. I also think that anyone who was not there - but who is dead certain of what did or did not happen (absent being Tony or the person at the lot) is a greater risk of wearing the stupid label than those who aren't sure but assuming. But that's just me...

So if you come through my gate into my back yard, and I had spoken with you earlier and said to come on over, you are a felon. Interesting.

I dunno - about as reasonable as assuming that the attendant appeared and confirmed his story before the arrest, I guess.

Of course, that is the home-cooked story, but it isn't what happened. There was no mention of a pre-arranged meeting to collect the car in the arrest report, by Joiner or the tow company employees, in fact, quite the opposite. Joiner admitted that he pushed open a large electric sliding gate and entered, then stole and impounded car, and then returned it when he was caught by an employee trying to get the gate shut.

This is the basis on which Joiner was formally charged with felony burglary (not trespassing, link):

According to the GPD arrest report obtained by Florida Today, arresting Officer Robert Concannon wrote: "According to witnesses, the defendant did commit a burglary by forcibly (pushing an electric gate open) entering a fenced compond with the intent to commit an offense therein. The compound was not open to the public and the defendant was not licensed or invited to enter."

The statement also reads that Joiner was attempting to pull the gate shut when he was stopped by a witness. Joiner then drove the car back inside the gate and waited for the police to arrive."

The GPD arrest report also states that Joiner was talking on a cellphone when Concannon arrived and said, "I am probably about to go to jail 'cuz I did push the gate open."

Gatorubet;950465; said:
My experience with cops is such that I think that they will arrest anybody for anything under almost any condition. I am rather certain in my view that the simple fact of an arrest is not a perfect indicator of a crime.

So, we should ignore the witness statements, the police report, and all other evidence and accept some good old home cooking? You are probably right, it's all a conspiracy by the local police to take advantage of the football players that bring so much revenue to the local economy.

Gatorubet;950465; said:
I'm sorry Mr. Moderator, but the "puffing chest out" emoticon appears to be broken.

Bash a mod on BP and you won't be around here very long.

Gatorubet;950465; said:
Here, I agree with convenient, but hesitate to believe as "untrue or dishonest" the fact of his prior arrangment without more facts than I know. You are free to draw your own conclusions of course.

Oh gosh, thanks so much for the validation. Actually, I prefer to rely on witness reports, police reports and other objective evidence. Looking at the world through homer-colored glasses, just doesn't seem to be very productive to me.

Gatorubet;950465; said:
Here, I think you are taking your 0-8 frustrations out on this particular SEC related issue. Again, my opinion. Maybe you are right and there is a vast SEC Wing conspiracy...I have really very little expectations regarding this thread. :biggrin:

Conspiracy? SEC? Again, you have tried to put words in my mouth that I did not endorse, so you can build a straw man to knock down and bolster your pathetic homeristic argument.

You're right, of course. Florida does not seem to have a discipline problem, charges are never dropped when their players are arrested, and this is an isolated incident...(link)

GAINESVILLE, FL (AP) -- Safety Tony Joiner is the eighth Florida player in the last nine months to get in legal trouble, a growing concern for the defending national champions.

Joiner, a senior captain and defensive leader, was arrested early Tuesday and charged with felony burglary, police said...

Joiner's arrest is the latest in a long list since Florida won its second national championship in January.

Offensive lineman Ronnie Wilson was charged with two felonies and a misdemeanor in April following a gun incident near campus. Wilson pleaded no contest to battery and discharging a firearm and was suspended indefinitely from the team.

Linebacker Dustin Doe was charged in April with fighting in public after a brawl at a downtown parking garage. The misdemeanor charge was later dismissed.

Safety Jamar Hornsby had a sworn complaint filed against him in April after he allegedly tossed a man onto the hood of a woman's car in a parking lot.

Safety Dorian Munroe was charged with felony theft in May when he removed a University Police boot from his car and put it in his trunk. The charge was later dropped.

Safety John Curtis was arrested in May on a probation violation stemming from his failure to complete five days of community service for an alcohol possession charge.

Cornerback Jacques Rickerson was charged with misdemeanor marijuana possession in May. His case was resolved without legal punishment. Running back Brandon James faced a similar charge in June. He was sentenced to six months' probation and community service.

Rickerson and James were suspended for Florida's season opener.

Joiner could be suspended for Saturday's game at No. 1 LSU.

Meyer had to deal with other high-profile incidents before the national title, too.

In February 2006, wide receiver Kenneth Tookes accidentally fired a gun into an occupied apartment, while receiver Andre Caldwell and cornerbacks Reggie Lewis and Dee Webb stood nearby. And defensive tackle Marcus Thomas was dismissed from the team last season after failing three drug tests.

Yep, you are right and I apologize. Classy!
 
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Steve19;950554; said:
Linebacker Dustin Doe was charged in April with fighting in public after a brawl at a downtown parking garage. The misdemeanor charge was later dismissed.


Safety Jamar Hornsby had a sworn complaint filed against him in April after he allegedly tossed a man onto the hood of a woman's car in a parking lot.

Safety Dorian Munroe was charged with felony theft in May when he removed a University Police boot from his car and put it in his trunk. The charge was later dropped.
Looks as though Florida could solve half their disciplinary problems if Meyer could just take away the team's drivers licenses and keep them away from automobiles.
 
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Steve19;950554; said:
Clearly, your comments are addressed to a Buckeye board. Perhaps you haven't realized from the posts here that your supporters seem to be few in number, in fact (0)? :confused:

Yeah. I managed to figure that Buckeye board thing out:roll1: My comments are addressed to you when I respond to you. If you need the back up of the whole board, that is your deal.

Of course, that is the home-cooked story, but it isn't what happened. There was no mention of a pre-arranged meeting to collect the car in the arrest report, by Joiner or the tow company employees, in fact, quite the opposite. Joiner admitted that he pushed open a large electric sliding gate and entered, then stole and impounded car, and then returned it when he was caught by an employee trying to get the gate shut.

This is the basis on which Joiner was formally charged with felony burglary (not trespassing, link):

According to the GPD arrest report obtained by Florida Today, arresting Officer Robert Concannon wrote: "According to witnesses, the defendant did commit a burglary by forcibly (pushing an electric gate open) entering a fenced compond with the intent to commit an offense therein. The compound was not open to the public and the defendant was not licensed or invited to enter."

The statement also reads that Joiner was attempting to pull the gate shut when he was stopped by a witness. Joiner then drove the car back inside the gate and waited for the police to arrive."

The GPD arrest report also states that Joiner was talking on a cellphone when Concannon arrived and said, "I am probably about to go to jail 'cuz I did push the gate open."

Steve, I never said to "ignore the police report". You keep insisting that it can't be anything but some kind of coverup, ("good old boy" coverup, to be exact), and you imply that it is unreaonable to suggest that the local PD could never report anything untrue, inaccurate or incomplete. You also say that Meyer is not "principled". You seem upset because I don't completely agree with your evaluation of it. Tough shit Steve, get used to it. I am happy to read your views, happy to give you mine, but when you make the kind of negative statements about Meyer you make, and when you make the statements that you make with the conviction that you make them, I will disagree with you if I think there is some area for disagreement. That is why the site exists. It should not shock you that I do not agree that Meyer is not an unprinicpled tool. Why it does shock you is beyond me.


So, we should ignore the witness statements, the police report, and all other evidence and accept some good old home cooking? You are probably right, it's all a conspiracy by the local police to take advantage of the football players that bring so much revenue to the local economy.

Here you have a bad habit of trying to set up straw men to knock down. I never said to ignore police reports and "all other evidence". I never said that is was a conspiracy by the cops. The problem is I have read literally hundreds of police reports. Some of them are complete fabrications. Often they are accurate - as they contain what they were told at the time, only to have the facts turn out different. Very often they are correct in the facts that they relate, and those facts remain true, but for some reason leave out other equally critical facts that bear on the charge. And, yes, they are also very often so complete and accurate that their contents tells you all you need to know about the crime.

Here, it looks like TJ commited a crime. You say a felony, and seem sure. I think a misdemeanor, and I'm not so sure. You say that there is no way absent home cooking or fraud that TJ might have inquired about the girl's car, found out the amount owed, and been told that he could come down and pay at 4:30. You say that the report does not mention that, and so assume it could not be true. I simply cannot say it did not happen. If he was simply stealing it, why take the time to close the gate instead of just leaving when he got it out? I dunno.... All I know is that from the get go the owner of the lot said that TJ had arranged to pick it up. I never said that he should have taken it because the guy was not there, nor have I said that the kid should play against LSU.

I am simply saying that while it looks bad, there may be something else besides a sweep under the rug thing. Could it be just what it seems, and a local owner is covering for the Gator player because of the LSU game? Hell yes it could. But is it the absolute truth that you suggest that it is? I am not willing to say yet.

Bash a mod on BP and you won't be around here very long.

"Bash"? You ask if I am "stupid enough" to mean what I say, call me "ignorant", my coach unprincipled, and then call my disagreeing with your post "bashing"??? I suggest you wear a tight sweater when you post. Skin that thin and your internal organs might fall out onto your keyboard. That'd be a bitch to clean up. :biggrin:

This is rather simple. I'm a Gator, weighing in on a Buckeye board on a topic where the board is thumping a Gator player for being an idiot. I think TJ did wrong, and I think he should sit the LSU game. You think he did worse and deserve worse. Fine Steve. It is possible I'm seeing it wrong, and being too partisan. That is a reasonable opinion too. But then, it is possible that you are happy to see the Gators having a problem. Recent events have made the Gators not your favorite team (other than this one time Satuday night:biggrin:), and YOU might be looking at it if it was your guy differently, or if it was not a Gator.

Oh gosh, thanks so much for the validation. Actually, I prefer to rely on witness reports, police reports and other objective evidence. Looking at the world through homer-colored glasses, just doesn't seem to be very productive to me.

Conspiracy? SEC? Again, you have tried to put words in my mouth that I did not endorse, so you can build a straw man to knock down and bolster your pathetic homeristic argument.

"Pathetic homeristic argument":slappy::slappy:Well, if you can't articulate a cogent reply without more name calling, just do the best you can do. YOU said that at "any other major player outside the SEC anywhere else but Florida or the SEC" the press would be baying at the door. Explain please, how that could occur absent some conspiracy. I'm all ears. And that is not a straw man, it is your statement. Back it up how Florida keeps the mean 'ole ESPN at bay, hmmmm?

You're right, of course. Florida does not seem to have a discipline problem, charges are never dropped when their players are arrested, and this is an isolated incident...(link)

Help me out here and post where I ever said any of these things will you?


Yep, you are right and I apologize. Classy!

I never said i was right. I'm saying that I'm not sure of all the facts yet to come to the certainty that you have. . You win the straw man war, that's for damn sure. I hope we can beat LSU. I damn sure hope you can beat Purdue. It would be great if we could meet again in a BCS bowl. The only rivalries worth a shit are the ones where the teams and fans take a little dislike towards each other :biggrin:

Good night all. Go Gators and :gobucks3::gobucks4:
 
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The biggest difference I see with this whole situation is the way that I believe JT would've handled this vs. the way Meyer is. It seems as if Meyer is willing to completely brush everything under the rug because the charges were "dismissed" even though a player and team captain has given the team and university an apparent black eye due to his indiscretion and poor judgement. On the other hand it has been proven numerous times that JT will not tolerate this and would suspend said player at least for a game and the captaincy also removed. Wether the kid is actually charged or not shouldnt really matter as far as I'm concerned. The fact that he wasnt thinking of his teammates first and went ahead and tempted the consequences doesnt show a captains leadership or a mature young man making the decision. Yes, I do want that kid to be disciplined correctly if he were to be a student athlete at the Ohio State University and we've seen it happen previously and currently from Jim Tressel. Guys on here have been stating the "Good Ole Boy" way of discipline is the reasoning behind the charges being dropped, because the SEC has a history of this type of incident. The SEC, however, isnt alone in our scorn for this type of "hush-hush" management, Lloyd Carr, Pete Carroll and JoePa are several others that have raised the ire on this board regarding the way they handle their players involved in illegal and immoral activities. Its not just a Gator-Hater thing, even though that part of it doesnt hurt.:p
 
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Gatorubet, it is a fair comment that I personalized my argument and should not have, for which I apologize. That was wrong on my behalf.

That said, the content of your posts is so entirely contradictory that it is nothing short of amazing. Also, you seem to assume an importance of Florida football and the SEC that just does not exist here.

The fact that our teams met in two NC games last year does not imply that we have a rivalry with Florida. Our rivalry with TSUN is the biggest rivalry in all of sports. We don't need anything else. Period.

I don't harbor any resentment because Florida beat Ohio State in both NC games. I could care less is Ohio State is 0-8 versus the SEC over such a long period of years and the hundreds of games we have played.

After all, few people would compare the history and tradition of Ohio State and Florida football.

In the case of football, the structure of the season last year was such that Ohio State waited two-thirds of a season for the NC game. tOSU weren't ready to play and they got beat on the day. I have no illusions that the Gators were the better football team but on that day, Florida was the better team.

In basketball, I can only wonder what might have been had Oden healthy the entire year. I am very proud that a freshman unit got to the NC game.

Now, in respect of this conversation in this thread about Joiner's arrest and its aftermath.

You say that you never said to ignore the police report. Perhaps that is true, but you ignore and dismiss it repeatedly, even in your most recent post. We would agree that some police reports can be inaccurate and not include all details. However, in this case, the policeman took care to accurately record the details that you seem to dispute. He inteviewed Joiner and witnesses and none of them indicated that a prior arrangement had been made. Not Joiner. Not the witnesses, including the one with whom the arrangement was supposedly made. Only later in the day, the owner claims Joiner made an arrangement to pay, and that is why the authorities chose to continue to hold Joiner and to press on with his prosecution until that was not possible due to lack of cooperation by the owner.

Although you express dismay about my characterization of a pattern of "dropped charges" in respect to Florida football, you do not respond to Florida press reports that highlight exactly such a pattern.

You query whether Joiner's crime was a misdemeanor in your posts, repeatedly. Yet, it is a statement of fact that Joiner was arrested and charged with a felony, as the attached press report showed. There is no basis for disputing this. Breaking and entering is a felony in Florida. When you break and enter, you have not Furthermore, in almost every state and including Florida, breaking and entering can only be charged as a felony. Trespassing is not breaking and entering. There is absolutely no disputing this fact.

You argue that I say Urban Meyer is unprincipled. I think he is an excellent coach but what I said is that if the principles of Jim Tressel were to be applied, this matter would have been treated differently. This matter gives us an excellent viewpoint from which to observe Meyer's principles, and time will tell us what they are.
 
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I agree with Gator's assessment that Tony should be held out of the LSU game. We really do not know what happened in Gainesville so I am inclined to give the young man the benefit of the doubt since he has had no issues that I am aware of.....

He showed terrible judgement but a lot of us at that age did stupid things. I wonder if his girlfriend was not involved would he would have done this.....

We all have done stupid and irrational things because of a woman...:biggrin:

Now since I am watching OSU and Purdue is Tony playing tonight against LSU?
 
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From what I was told by friends and fellow CFB fans tonight. Meyer said he would not play in the game on TV prior to the game. They then said they saw him playing in the 3rd quarter.

not sure if this is true or not, anyone know?
 
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Taosman;950534; said:
If you or I try that, who would come to our defense and say it was all just a little misunderstanding?
Our ass would go to jail.

Exactly. The charges would have never been dropped in time to make the team bus on Friday night either.

Too bad there wasn't a Vbet on if the charges would have been dropped or not. Lock of the year.
 
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Steve19;951188; said:
Gatorubet, it is a fair comment that I personalized my argument and should not have, for which I apologize. That was wrong on my behalf.

That said, the content of your posts is so entirely contradictory that it is nothing short of amazing. Also, you seem to assume an importance of Florida football and the SEC that just does not exist here.

The fact that our teams met in two NC games last year does not imply that we have a rivalry with Florida. Our rivalry with TSUN is the biggest rivalry in all of sports. We don't need anything else. Period.

I don't harbor any resentment because Florida beat Ohio State in both NC games. I could care less is Ohio State is 0-8 versus the SEC over such a long period of years and the hundreds of games we have played.

After all, few people would compare the history and tradition of Ohio State and Florida football.

In the case of football, the structure of the season last year was such that Ohio State waited two-thirds of a season for the NC game. tOSU weren't ready to play and they got beat on the day. I have no illusions that the Gators were the better football team but on that day, Florida was the better team.

In basketball, I can only wonder what might have been had Oden healthy the entire year. I am very proud that a freshman unit got to the NC game.

Now, in respect of this conversation in this thread about Joiner's arrest and its aftermath.

You say that you never said to ignore the police report. Perhaps that is true, but you ignore and dismiss it repeatedly, even in your most recent post. We would agree that some police reports can be inaccurate and not include all details. However, in this case, the policeman took care to accurately record the details that you seem to dispute. He inteviewed Joiner and witnesses and none of them indicated that a prior arrangement had been made. Not Joiner. Not the witnesses, including the one with whom the arrangement was supposedly made. Only later in the day, the owner claims Joiner made an arrangement to pay, and that is why the authorities chose to continue to hold Joiner and to press on with his prosecution until that was not possible due to lack of cooperation by the owner.

Although you express dismay about my characterization of a pattern of "dropped charges" in respect to Florida football, you do not respond to Florida press reports that highlight exactly such a pattern.

You query whether Joiner's crime was a misdemeanor in your posts, repeatedly. Yet, it is a statement of fact that Joiner was arrested and charged with a felony, as the attached press report showed. There is no basis for disputing this. Breaking and entering is a felony in Florida. When you break and enter, you have not Furthermore, in almost every state and including Florida, breaking and entering can only be charged as a felony. Trespassing is not breaking and entering. There is absolutely no disputing this fact.

You argue that I say Urban Meyer is unprincipled. I think he is an excellent coach but what I said is that if the principles of Jim Tressel were to be applied, this matter would have been treated differently. This matter gives us an excellent viewpoint from which to observe Meyer's principles, and time will tell us what they are.

Steve, I really do thank you for your well thought out post. I'm not going to reply to it all, as I'm butt tired, soon to be hung over, and have to get up to serve communion in six hours. And - y'all should be celebrating your impressive victory instead of reading one of my long replies.:biggrin: Actually, I'm tired, drunk, and still bummed about tonight. So thanks for the apology, which was not required. We all get a little heated, which makes it fun. Plus, my smart-assness has to be considered. :p

I'll send you a pm and spare the the world my 18 point rebuttal:biggrin:
 
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The owner of the towing company involved in Florida safety Tony Joiner's burglary case said Saturday he received more than 200 threatening phone calls.

More than a dozen of the calls were death threats and others were bomb threats, Stan Forron told Florida Today. Several callers even offered to pay the $76 towing bill if Forron would drop the charge.



"I'm just glad it wasn't Tim Tebow, that's all I can say," Forron told the newspaper. "I think I would be covered in 10 feet of concrete right now if it had been Tebow."


Joiner was arrested around 5 a.m. Tuesday for allegedly trying to take his girlfriend's car out of the towing company's impound lot.


The State Attorney's Office dropped the charge Friday at Forron's request.

[snip]

Shortly after Joiner's arrest, Forron said the player had arranged to pay the bill and pick up the car. But Forron said no one was around to take Joiner's money, so he must have thought it was OK to take the car and settle up later.


"He was a perfect gentleman," Forron said. "That had a big influence on why I wanted [the charge dropped]. If he had been yelling and screaming, they wouldn't have been dropped."
link
 
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