Game Thread Tostitos Fiesta Bowl: Ohio State 34, Notre Dame 20 (final)

[jwinslow]

you're such a dumbshit.
They ALWAYS play USC - that's not part of the equation.
Them stepping up and playing Penn St next year is better than their normal B10 selection.
We played a tough B10 schedule PLUS TX this year.
you played a weak B10 schedule PLUS USC this year.

it's convenient that you're compartmentalizing their schedule into what big ten teams they play, but that's not very useful for comparing to OSU.

Are Georgia Tech, Purdue, UCLA, and North Carolina all pushovers?

USC - Texas cancel each other out, as do UM, MSU and Penn State.

Iowa is gonna be ok. Minny will struggle without their lineman and maroney. Who is left, Northwestern?

ND's schedule isn't world beating next year, but its not easy by a long shot. Same thing goes for OSU's 06 schedule.

 

[ulukinatme]

you're such a dumbshit.
They ALWAYS play USC - that's not part of the equation.
Them stepping up and playing Penn St next year is better than their normal B10 selection.
We played a tough B10 schedule PLUS TX this year.
you played a weak B10 schedule PLUS USC this year.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Ok, schedules are made several years in advance, theres really no "stepping up" involved, its more luck and guess work than anything. Yeah, we played 3 or 4 teams this year that are always powder puff teams, while most of the other decent teams didn't do well this year, but what about OSU's schedule? They had their share of crummy teams too, namely: Miami(OH), SDSU, Illinois, and Indiana, as well as a few other good teams that didn't have a great year either like Iowa and Northwestern ( The only decent team they beat was Wisconsin ). Basically the schedules aren't that much different.

 

[WyoBuck]

Ok, ( The only decent team they beat was Wisconsin ). Basically the schedules aren't that much different.

Uh....check your schedule. We didn't play Wisconsin this year. And yes the schedules are THAT different. When was the last time any of the military academies OR Stanford were good? The 4 worst teams on our schedule are better than the 4 worst teams on ND's Year in year out. I still contend that if we were givin the love in the polls that ND gets, I'd take that schedule 10 time out of 10.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I'm pretty sure ND isn't afraid to play even more of a Big 10 schedule, many times they're schedule is tougher than the Big 10.

And there are many times (such as this past season) it's not.

Certainly not this year, but if Tennessee wouldn't have played like crap, as well as scUM and Purdue, things would have been normal.

Yeah, and if we beat both Texas and Penn State, we would've played in the Rose Bowl. "If" means shit.

We already play scUM and MSU because of long standing rivalries, Purdue isn't as long I think but its more of an in-state thing. After those three theres USC always, then one or two military academies

Michigan isn't even close to being a "long-standing rivalry" (20 games in the past 27 years, and 33 games all-time). Your rivalries are Navy (79 games, every year since 1927), Purdue (77 games including the last 59 years straight), USC (77 games, every year since 1926 except for 1943-1945), and Michigan State (69 games, including every year since 1948 except for 1953, 1958, 1995, and 1996). Looking at your order (scUM, MSU, Purdue, USC, "academies"), you had them totally backwards. Sort of blows your credibility away...

 

[ohiostate=life]

Pics from the game...

Don't ask me how I got these:

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Ok, schedules are made several years in advance, theres really no "stepping up" involved, its more luck and guess work than anything. Yeah, we played 3 or 4 teams this year that are always powder puff teams, while most of the other decent teams didn't do well this year, but what about OSU's schedule? They had their share of crummy teams too, namely: Miami(OH), SDSU, Illinois, and Indiana, as well as a few other good teams that didn't have a great year either like Iowa and Northwestern ( The only decent team they beat was Wisconsin ). Basically the schedules aren't that much different.

you act like schedules are put together with the purpose of being tough.

 

[Steve19]

Basically the schedules aren't that much different.

Keep thinking that. Make sure you share your opinion with Charlie. And don't forget that Tennessee is a tougher defense.

I hope that I don't offend you, because you are a respected poster on this board and we like it that you are here, but you have to lose this Notre Dame-centric view of the world and be more objective if you hope to have a discussion here.

On your board, people reacted with horror and dismay when I proposed that ND had not seen a defense like Ohio State. They were offended. Give Charlie a month...You look at my posts there and tell me what I said that did not prove to be true.

While I don't mean to show disrespect to you or your team, some reality needs to be brought into this conversation.

Notre Dame did not do so this year but has played a tough schedule for years. However, being out of a conference lets you front load the tough teams, schedule patsies between them, and then finish out with easy games. So, you start out over-rated (moreso than any other team, as is well documented) and then rise in the rankings to a position of being over-rated when the season ends, because people in conferences are playing tough rivalry and conference championship games while you guys are trying to convince yourselves that Stanford is a good test. You fool yourselves into thinking your team is better than it is.

It's a good shell game that makes for a good showing in the polls prior to the bowls but it has one result: Notre Dame plays in bowl games it doesn't deserve to play in and THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE LOST EIGHT STRAIGHT BOWL GAMES.

Notre Dame was not a top 10 team this year. The schedule you played this year did not even have a winning season. Take USC and Ohio State out and it is dismal. Look at any objective measure, on any set of objective ratings such as the computer ratings, and you will see that what I have said is true.

Oh yeah, we didn't beat Wisconsin--we didn't play them!

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

It's a good shell game that makes for a good showing in the polls prior to the bowls but it has one result: Notre Dame plays in bowl games it doesn't deserve to play in and THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE LOST EIGHT STRAIGHT BOWL GAMES.

Ahhhhhh yes...the summation of Notre Dame's perennial modus operandi in a nice, concise, one-sentence paragraph.

 

[jwinslow]

I agree ND is often overrated... however putting down ND for Tennessee sucking is misguided. ND's pre-bowl ranking in 05 was inaccurate due to teams like Tenn, however their scheduling this year was very respectable.

 

[BUCKYLE]

I agree ND is often overrated... however putting down ND for Tennessee sucking is misguided. ND's pre-bowl ranking in 05 was inaccurate due to teams like Tenn, however their scheduling this year was very respectable.

tOSU schedules Miami (FL), and USC when they are at the top of thier game, or close to it.

It would be of great interest to me, to see when ND decided to schedule PSU. Is it because they are a perennial powerhouse, or, is it because they get the "name recognition" from the pollsters for beating a powerhouse in a "down period"? Just wondering.

 

[jwinslow]

that's evading the fact that they continued to schedule Tennessee when they were excellent and had more NFL draft picks than any team in that span of 5-10 years. Fulmer's team tanked beyond anyone's wildest predictions. Heading into the season, USC, Tennessee and Michigan represented a better trio than anything OSU had when evaluating the schedules before 05 (Texas/Iowa were close to USC/Tenn... but they had the #1, #3, and #4 teams).

Can someone explain how the 2005 schedule was weak, fearful scheduling?

I'm no AD, but I've heard that games are often scheduled 5 years in advance. If this was scheduled 3 years ago, PSU was showing signs of their old greatness.

However, now that the season is over, we like to thump our chests about playing PSU, despite that not being a very impressive game before the season started (notice I dind't say an easy game to win... since they always play us close for some reason).

Sort of blows your credibility away...

sort of blows your credibility away when you ignore the context of what he said. He was asked about playing more of a big ten schedule, and so he mentioned the big ten teams that are on there b/c of a rivalry, and then mentioned USC b/c that's another strong team they play. He was not ordering the rivalries.


It really boggles my mind the amount of people who say Michigan is worthless on ND's schedule when they are #30. How many of those same people said that regardless of record, The Game 05 was gonna be an extremely tough test. Why is it that OSU gets that allowance and not ND? B/c OSU has been playing them longer? Please, both games are big. In some ways, playing UM early is tougher, b/c your team has not had a chance to develop. Tressel teams have struggled early and exploded late the last two years. Again in 06 we will have growing pains, and it is a luxury that The Game is not until mid november.

 

[NOTREDAMECHIEF]

And what is funny about this? ND will play scUM? So? Maybe if they (scUM) finished in the top 30 it would matter.

But the point Nightmares Dad makes is that ND is afraid to play even more of a B10 schedule than they already are. Both from, IMO, a PR viewpoint and from a win-loss viewpoint.

Oh yeah:
LOL!

Yeah and all this 'tough' talk after I just found out that Woody was the one who did not want to play ND.....

 

[Buckeye513]

Better hope the NCAA doesn't investigate this. Those 'm's could mean anything.

 

[Steve19]

Jwins, I certainly didn't say anything about weak, fearful scheduling. What I said is that Notre Dame use their independent status to set out a schedule that front loads some tough games and finishes easy.

It has been well noted that Notre Dame are the most over-rated team in football. There is no disputing this fact based on pre-season and final season rankings.

However, my point is that even that does not show the upward inflation of their rankings.

The pattern of taking tough games upfront has the implication that Notre Dame avoids the conference bloodbath that others go through and then creeps back up in the ratings as the conference teams take a hit. Next year, USC is late in their schedule and it that argument will fall away.

If you think it is unfair to say their schedule was weak this year, well here are the teams they played and their power ratings and win-loss records. It's not the Sisters for the Poor, but it also is not a punishing schedule. As for the pattern of a weaker late schedule, their previous schedules and team power ratings are listed on Marsee http://www.marsee.net/fb.html. I draw that conclusion from what I see.

As I said, Notre Dame played a tough schedule for years, as I noted in my earlier post, but not this year. They were 2-2 against the Big Ten and if they had played a Big Ten schedule, then that team would probably have lost two more games.

So, in reply to ulukiatme's argument that there was little difference between our schedules, in fact, we played perhaps the toughest schedule in college football this year -- Notre Dame didn't -- and it is my opinion that, based on their schedule and wins, they didn't belong in a BCS bowl. A few unlucky breaks/calls for Ohio State go differently, then this would have been more like 45-20.

As long as ulukinatme keeps thinking that Tennessee was a tough as Ohio State and that the schedules are comparable this season, I am happy,

<TABLE width="95%" bgColor=#d8e9fd><TBODY><TR><TD>Date </TD><TD>Site </TD><TD>Score </TD><TD>Opponent </TD>
<TR><TD>Week 1</TD><TD>Away</TD><TD>W 42-21 </TD><TD></B>vs. #63 Pittsburgh</TD></TR><TR><TD>Week 2</TD><TD>Away</TD><TD>W 17-10 </TD><TD></B>vs. #18 Michigan</TD></TR><TR><TD>Week 3</TD><TD>Home</TD><TD>L 41-44 </TD><TD></B>vs. #43 Michigan Stahttp://teamrankings.com/ncf/mhspower.php3?q=Michigan+State+Football</TD></TR><TR><TD>Week 4</TD><TD>Away</TD><TD>W 36-17 </TD><TD></B>vs. #76 Washington</TD></TR><TR><TD>Week 5</TD><TD>Away</TD><TD>W 49-28 </TD><TD></B>vs. #42 Purdue</TD></TR><TR><TD>Week 7</TD><TD>Home</TD><TD>L 31-34 </TD><TD></B>vs. #2 USC</TD></TR><TR><TD>Week 8</TD><TD>Home</TD><TD>W 49-23 </TD><TD></B>vs. #58 BYU</TD></TR><TR><TD>Week 10</TD><TD>Home</TD><TD>W 41-21 </TD><TD></B>vs. #46 Tennessee</TD></TR><TR><TD>Week 11</TD><TD>Home</TD><TD>W 42-21 </TD><TD></B>vs. #55 Navy</TD></TR><TR><TD>Week 12</TD><TD>Home</TD><TD>W 34-10 </TD><TD></B>vs. #103 Syracuse</TD></TR><TR><TD>Week 13</TD><TD>Away</TD><TD>W 38-31 </TD><TD></B>vs. #36 Stanford</TD></TR><TR><TD>Week 15</TD><TD>Neut</TD><TD>L 20-34 </TD><TD></B>vs. #3 Ohio State</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
http://teamrankings.com/ncf/undpower.php3?q=Notre+Dame+Football

09/03/05 at Pittsburgh ( 5-6 ) 42-21
09/10/05 at Michigan ( 7-5 ) 17-10
09/17/05 Michigan St ( 5-6 ) 41-44
09/24/05 at Washington ( 2-9 ) 36-17
10/01/05 at Purdue ( 5-6 ) 49-28
10/15/05 USC ( 12-1 ) 31-34
10/22/05 Brigham Young ( 6-6 ) 49-23
11/05/05 Tennessee ( 5-6 ) 41-21
11/12/05 Navy ( 8-4 ) 42-21
11/19/05 Syracuse ( 1-10 ) 34-10
11/26/05 at Stanford ( 5-6 ) 38-31
01/02/06 vs Ohio St ( 10-2 ) 20-34 (Tempe AZ)
http://www.mratings.com/team.php?tm=193629

 

[Steve19]

Yeah and all this 'tough' talk after I just found out that Woody was the one who did not want to play ND.....

Come into the present, young man! We offered you a game in 1996 after the two wins and both teams had an open day. Notre Dame refused.