Game Thread Tostitos Fiesta Bowl: Ohio State 34, Notre Dame 20 (final)

[NOTREDAMECHIEF]

AS for ND and the BIG10, well I just got thru reading a little about ND's football history and here is what I found out.

ND went to the BIG 10 about joining at least 5 times only to be turned down every time. Years ago Rockne used to go to the BIG1O meetings every year just to lobby for ND getting in.

As I said all along, blame the BIG1O.....

 

[osugrad21]

As I said all along, blame the BIG1O.....

However, in today's era, one would have to blame ND...

You been hanging out with Michigan fans again? Rockne? C'mon...join a conference for the Gipper.

 

[NOTREDAMECHIEF]

ND did not refuse, the were in the works with the team of the 90's NEBRASKA a team they did play with those 2 games.

 

[jwinslow]

Jwins, I certainly didn't say anything about weak, fearful scheduling. What I said is that Notre Dame use their independent status to set out a schedule that front loads some tough games and finishes easy.

excellent stuff steve19... my beef was not with your posts. I think you have an excellent point, and I will read thru it again later after a long nap (been up all night).

If you think it is unfair to say their schedule was weak this year, well here are the teams they played and their power ratings and win-loss records. It's not the Sisters for the Poor, but it also is not a punishing schedule. As for the pattern of a weaker late schedule, their previous schedules and team power ratings are listed on Marsee http://www.marsee.net/fb.html. I draw that conclusion from what I see.

I think the schedule turned out to be weak, which I stated previously as a reason they were overrated this year in the polls. What I was arguing was that ND scheduled some tough teams this year that should have been better: Michigan, Tennessee, Pittsburgh, Purdue all were huge underachievers. I feel those to be two separate topics in this thread, tho you do make an interesting observation about the scheduling inflating their rankings.

 

[ulukinatme]

Oh yeah, we didn't beat Wisconsin--we didn't play them!

Uhhh, I never said you didn't, you and Wyobuck need to go back and read my post again because I said the only team Northwestern beat that was any good was Wisconsin.

A few unlucky breaks/calls for Ohio State go differently, then this would have been more like 45-20.

And...it wouldn't have for us? I get blasted about a "what if" because Tennessee and Purdue are usually decent teams, but I guess it doesn't go both ways? There were plenty of what ifs in the Fiesta Bowl, but the Buckeyes won in the end and deserved to. Despite OSU having 600 yards of offense, the game was within one score late in the 4th.

As long as ulukinatme keeps thinking that Tennessee was a tough as Ohio State and that the schedules are comparable this season, I am happy,

Don't believe I ever mentioned Tennessee as being as tough as Ohio State, especially with the kind of offense UT put up this year.

So, in reply to ulukiatme's argument that there was little difference between our schedules, in fact, we played perhaps the toughest schedule in college football this year -- Notre Dame didn't

According to that site you listed, here were the schedule ranks for this year:
5. Ohio St (605,000,605)
12. Notre Dame (582,000,582)
Out of 117 Div 1 teams, #5 and #12 are both pretty high. In 2004 Notre Dame's schedule ranked #6 in the nation, while OSU's was a #28. 2003 Notre Dame had the #1 schedule, OSU was #18. 2002 Notre Dame had the #10 schedule, OSU had #37. 2001 Notre Dame had the #6 schedule, OSU had a tough #47. I think you get the picture. While there were two years this wasn't the case, on average our schedule is tough year in and year out.
Obviously #5 is higher up than #12, but its certainly not far off....which was all I was trying to point out in the first place.

you act like schedules are put together with the purpose of being tough.

Maybe, but if we have the opportunity to schedule any team for all of our games each year, why don't we play a lot more cream puff teams to improve our schedule? According to Steve19's website, we usuallly have a pretty tough schedule, sounds to me like we try to keep it pretty tough.

Looking at your order (scUM, MSU, Purdue, USC, "academies"), you had them totally backwards. Sort of blows your credibility away...

True, I wasn't too sure about the Purdue rivalry like I said, but to be fair I wasn't chronologically listing them off, I was really just pointing out how our usual schedule breaks down. On top of that, its hard for me to remember many great games against Purdue, especially in recent years where they usually end up as blowouts for either team.:tongue2: Anyway, the gist of the post was that I'm pretty sure ND isn't afraid to play even more of a Big 10 schedule, the order of the rivalries was irrelevant.

 

[ohiostate=life]

Better hope the NCAA doesn't investigate this. Those 'm's could mean anything.

The M's stand for Muck City. That is the nickname of their hometown of Belle Glade, Fl.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Maybe, but if we have the opportunity to schedule any team for all of our games each year, why don't we play a lot more cream puff teams to improve our schedule? According to Steve19's website, we usuallly have a pretty tough schedule, sounds to me like we try to keep it pretty tough.

ADs don't put schedules together with the hopes of winning the SoS award. Once everybody in this thread realizes it, we can stop with the annual cries of "we scheduled it years in advance!" and "it's not our fault they had a down year". Those lines are used like you're defending your AD for scheduling a weak schedule. He doesn't go out trying to make an impossible schedule just for the sake of having the #1 SoS every year......despite what ND fans claim.

 

[osugrad21]

ADs don't put schedules together with the hopes of winning the SoS award. Once everybody in this thread realizes it, we can stop with the annual cries of "we scheduled it years in advance!" and "it's not our fault they had a down year". Those lines are used like you're defending your AD for scheduling a weak schedule. He doesn't go out trying to make an impossible schedule just for the sake of having the #1 SoS every year......despite what ND fans claim.

I can agree to an extent, but even by scheduling years in advance, an AD still has an idea of how prominent of a program is being scheduled.

 

[ulukinatme]

Yeah...ok, so tell me why our team is usually pretty high on the list? Your theory intrigues me, perhaps its just freak chance each year?

 

[Steve19]

1. We were confused the way you wrote your post. Sorry, you are correct that you did not say that we beat Wisconsin. However, I would note that Wisconsin blew some of that Southern speed away in their bowl game and a victory over them is quite an accomplishment.

2. With over 600 yards of offense and shutting down your quarterback, I can't believe that you are suggesting that Notre Dame was just a couple of lucky breaks away from winning? Is that right? Because, again with respect, if you believe that to be the case, then we need to look at the definition of "ass-kicking" in your dictionary because it is very different from mine.

3. No, you didn't mention Tennessee as being as tough as Ohio State but there was plenty of mention of this by your coach and on your board, which was my intended point and I seem to remember you not disagreeing with this on the ND board.

4. If you search BP, you will find a post in which I analysed the power ratings of the schedules of Ohio State over the last decade, in response to some comments from NDChief.

You can search or let NDChief come in here to verify what I say, but what you mention is true only for the period you choose, go back further and you will see the SOS is in Ohio State's favor (and so it varies).

I did a complete statistical analysis (and I teach multivariate statistics in grad school by the way) and showed that, contrary to the claims of ND fans ad nauseum, there is no statistical difference between the SOS of ND and tOSU. Also, care to comment on the win-loss records of those teams?

5. It is a matter of public record that your SOS is where it is precisely because you played Ohio State. Prior to that it was not in the top 20. Ohio State's SOS was #1 until they played ND. Enough said.

I come back to my original point, which is to dispute your comment that there is little difference between the schedules these teams played. Respectfully, I disagree and I think the objective evidence is in my favor.

Uhhh, I never said...

 

[Dryden]

5. It is a matter of public record that your SOS is where it is precisely because you played Ohio State. Prior to that it was not in the top 20. Ohio State's SOS was #1 until they played ND. Enough said.

To paraphrase an old quip by Bear Bryant, Notre Dame played the toughest schedule in the country because they played us, our schedule was easy because we only had to play Notre Dame.

 

[ulukinatme]

1. No harm, I tend to ramble, and sometimes my posts get all jumbled because I have a million things running through my head while I type. You probably just read from WyoBuck's reply and went from there.

On point #2, as I mentioned the score was within one touchdown of a tie in the 4th quarter, which is pretty close despite having 600 yards offense. I was agreeing that yes, OSU could have blown us out 50 points or whatever with a few breaks as someone mentioned, but with a few breaks our way the same thing could have happened. For instance, if Gonzo's incomplete hadn't been reviewed, or if the hold on Talley near the end of the game wasn't called...or didn't occur we might have sacked Smith or gotten the ball back on a punt. I was only using this argument to combat the "what if" statement, which I got blasted for using. Sorry about that, it was really just a defensive thing. I did say that OSU was the better team and deserved to win.

On point #3 you are correct, our coach didn't think much of OSU's defense, and that was part of the problem when he got outcoached. While Tennessee's defense is their strong point, their defensive backs couldn't guard our receivers half as well as OSU's did, and their offense wasn't even in the same league comparatively.

On points 4 and 5, I see where you're coming from, but its still my opinion each schedule is fairly close in proximity to difficulty this year, with OSU certainly having the tougher one. Each of us played a Rose Bowl team, each of us had 3-4 cream puff teams, and the majority of the the rest of the games was filled with common opponents and/or teams on a downfall like Iowa and Purdue. The real difference was Penn State, thats the breaker for sure. That goes back to the original statement though, Tennessee began the year as a Top 5 team, and for whatever reason they fell pretty flat which is unusual. I think one team is the difference maker in this case, and so I'm going to stick with my opinion.

 

[sandgk]

If Gonzo's incomplete is not reviewed then ND merely gets another look at the OSU defense in relatively poor field position.

Outcome uncertain, though my money is on the Bucks D.

 

[NightmaresDad]

ADs don't put schedules together with the hopes of winning the SoS award. Once everybody in this thread realizes it, we can stop with the annual cries of "we scheduled it years in advance!" and "it's not our fault they had a down year". Those lines are used like you're defending your AD for scheduling a weak schedule. He doesn't go out trying to make an impossible schedule just for the sake of having the #1 SoS every year......despite what ND fans claim.

I remember reading last season a quote by the Notre Dame AD lamenting the fact that they had signed the 10 year deal with scUM. That's one of the main reasons I feel that they in no way will schedule us until that series is over.

And for the record, I would LOVE to play USC every year - in the Rose Bowl - like God intended!

 

[Steve19]

I think one team is the difference maker in this case, and so I'm going to stick with my opinion.

One of the nice things about BuckeyePlanet is that we respect different points of view and I meant what I said about your being here and contributing.

So, in this regard, I guess we will agree to disagree on relative schedule strength. I hope you guys get a rematch for the national championship next year. (It'll hurt to get so close and lose but we'll still respect you in the morning :tongue2: ).

I think we can agree that both teams play tough schedules year in and year out and that a victory over TSUN is just about as pleasurable as, well, it's just really very nice .