Game Thread tOSU at Indiana - Oct 13, 8 ET, BTN

[Woody1968]

Lack of tackling technique aside, it almost seems like there's two defensive teams out there. Not clear which part of the defense is lacking, but it sure appears that there's two philosophies at work. Can there be two coaches teaching different ways to go about defense? Fickel and Whithers are co-coaches, but I do not see one cohesive unit.

There's no way that Indiana out-personnels us. None. Yet it appeared time and time again that their D person was out-doing (is that a word?) their OSU counterpart. No push from the D-line, it seemed like everyone was being double-teamed. Yet no penetration from the 'backers in the gaps. OSU has always been known for corners, yet OSU is giving up more yards in the air than anyone (10th in the B10 anyone?). Let's go back to man-to-man, cover-two, and scrap this zone stuff. Hit the seam and he's gone a la Wynn (and I'm certain he enjoyed that play!). This bend but don't break crap went out with the old Browns defenses of the 70's. But when you break, what's that about 70 points given up in the last two games, it's time to rethink things.

Anticipate changes to the defensive coaches over the winter.......


:gobucks3::gobucks4:

Who on this unit do you trust to play man-to-man?

 

[lvbuckeye]

Who on this unit do you trust to play man-to-man?

the problem isn't the corners and safeties.

 

[ArmyVet83]

It has taken me until now to discuss this game.

Before the game even began, me and my Buckeye brothers discussed the oddity of playing Indiana, at 8:00PM, on the BTN, away from the man cave because none of us have the BTN, and watching the game at the Carolina Ale House from a table rather than the bar like we normally do. Needless to say NONE of us had a very good feeling about the game and did not rule out the probablity of a perfect storm brewing in Indiana's favor which luckily it did not.

Bottom line is the Buckeyes escaped with a WIN when all the odds were stacked against them...so to speak.

I will use the line that Bruce Lee used in Enter the Dragon and modify.

Dude: What's your style?

Bruce: The art of fighting without fighting.

In the Buckeyes response, it would be:

"The art of losing without losing."

Hopefully, this is one of those games where maybe that final lesson is learned by the team, especially the defense and coaches, that they are painfully close to losing a game they have no business losing.

 

[Woody1968]

the problem isn't the corners and safeties.

Howard and Barnett are both banged up. Bryant's play has been mixed at best. I have not made up my mind about Johnson yet. Grant did not play well against Indiana.

 

[BlufftonBuckeye]

One of the things I have been hoping to see with the new staff was more consistent pass catching skills. OSU receivers have been dropping passes consistently for years.

I think that's because we haven't had many good receivers in the last 10 years.

2011- Posey. Eh.
2010- Dane. He didn't drop passes.
2009- Robiskie and Hartline. Robiskie dropped his fair share of passes, and really wasn't/isn't that good. Hartline was good, didn't drop passes.
2007- Roy Hall, Gonzo, Ginn. Ginn was never a great pass catcher, just incredible elusiveness. Gonzo was a guy you could count on, didn't really have issues with drops. Roy Hall...eh.
2004- Drew Carter, Mike Jenkins. Carter wasn't really special or anything. Jenkins was good/great.
2001- Ken-Yon Rambo, Reggie Germany. Neither were that good.

So, in 10 years we had 4-6 solid pass catchers. I don't care who your coach is, gotta have someone to throw to.

it's true though. It shouldn't be though because I still believe we have the best DL in the big ten with talent/experience/depth all being assets. We have two of the better corners as well and while the middle of the defense isn't that great it shouldn't negate what the other 6 players on defense bring to the table.

Comparing those laughable defenses from the RichRod era to this years Buckeye d is interesting.

2010 scUM
PPG Allowed: 35.2
Rush YPG: 188.9
Pass YPG: 261.8
YPG Allowed: 450.8
INT's/game: .9
Fumble recoveries/game: .5
TO's forced/game: 1.4

2012 Buckeyes:
PPG Allowed: 24.6
Rush YPG: 122.3
Pass YPG: 277.7
YPG Allowed: 400.0
INT's/game: 1.4
Fumble recoveries/game: .4
TO's forced/game: 1.8

Each bolded category is one in which the Buckeyes defense has performed better.

Sorry, but I just don't see a *lot* of similarity here. The Buckeyes are still only allowing 24ppg, dramatically different than those scUM teams.

 

[Dryden]

I think that's because we haven't had many good receivers in the last 10 years.

2011- Posey. Eh.
2010- Dane. He didn't drop passes.
2009- Robiskie and Hartline. Robiskie dropped his fair share of passes, and really wasn't/isn't that good. Hartline was good, didn't drop passes.
2007- Roy Hall, Gonzo, Ginn. Ginn was never a great pass catcher, just incredible elusiveness. Gonzo was a guy you could count on, didn't really have issues with drops. Roy Hall...eh.
2004- Drew Carter, Mike Jenkins. Carter wasn't really special or anything. Jenkins was good/great.
2001- Ken-Yon Rambo, Reggie Germany. Neither were that good.

So, in 10 years we had 4-6 solid pass catchers. I don't care who your coach is, gotta have someone to throw to.

You forgot Chris Vance, Chris Gamble, and a Super Bowl MVP.

 

[Muck]

I think that's because we haven't had many good receivers in the last 10 years.

In other news...

Buckeyes Led NFL with Seven WRs in 2011

Ohio State had the most wide receivers in the National Football League during the 2011 season. A total of seven former Ohio State Buckeye receivers were on the opening day NFL rosters this year, according to NFL Communications.

.../cont/...

 

[BlufftonBuckeye]

You forgot Chris Vance, Chris Gamble, and a Super Bowl MVP.

Dammit, just went through the draft list and skipped right over Santonio.

Gamble wasn't a great receiver, he was a great CB. Vance was good too.

Honestly though, having 7 WR's playing in the NFL is cool and all, but a second look...


Dane Sanzenbacher - 1 catch, 7 yards.

Brian Robiskie - Unsigned

Anthony Gonzalez - Out of football

Brian Hartline - 29 receptions, 514 yards, top WR

Michael Jenkins - 19 receptions, 202 yards

Santonio Holmes - 20 receptions, 272 yards (Out with bad injury)

Ted Ginn - 0 receptions, 1 rush for 7 yards

Again, my original post was in response to the comment that Buckeye WR's seem like they've always struggled with drops. My response was that it seems there haven't been many great receivers in the last 10 years, and I came up with 4 (should have been 5, forgot Santonio).

 

[SEREbuckeye]

I think that's because we haven't had many good receivers in the last 10 years.

2011- Posey. Eh.
2010- Dane. He didn't drop passes.
2009- Robiskie and Hartline. Robiskie dropped his fair share of passes, and really wasn't/isn't that good. Hartline was good, didn't drop passes.
2007- Roy Hall, Gonzo, Ginn. Ginn was never a great pass catcher, just incredible elusiveness. Gonzo was a guy you could count on, didn't really have issues with drops. Roy Hall...eh.
2004- Drew Carter, Mike Jenkins. Carter wasn't really special or anything. Jenkins was good/great.
2001- Ken-Yon Rambo, Reggie Germany. Neither were that good.

Lets take a look at who was throwing to those guys during those years:

2011- True Frosh Braxton Miller.
2010- Pryor, had a solid year. Someone was catching his 2772 yards
2009- Pryor, not known for an accurate arm - 18 TDs to 11 INTs
2007- Todd Boeckman. A guy that really had one solid year, sandwiched between two solid QBs (Smith and Pryor). He had a TD:INT ratio of 25:14.
2004- The year of the two QB system. The Bucks couldn't figure out if they wanted Smith or Zwick at the helm.
2001- Steve Bellasari. Enough said?

I noticed nothing was said about receivers during the Krenzel and Smith years.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Sorry, but I just don't see a *lot* of similarity here. The Buckeyes are still only allowing 24ppg, dramatically different than those scUM teams.

The only reason why we're giving up "only" 24.57 PPG is because MSU's offense flat fucking sucks. We gave 485 yards and 38 offensive points to Nebraska, and 481 yards and 49 offensive points to Indiana the last two games. That's 483 yards and 43.5 points per game. Those are our sixth and seventh regular season, and second and third conference, games of the season. The same/similar games under DickRod:

2008: 46 points to PSU, 35 points to MSU (40.5 PPG)
2009: 30 points Iowa, 35 points to PSU (32.5 PPG)
2010: 34 to MSU, 38 points to Iowa (36.0 PPG)

Our defensive performance over the last two games was worse than any similar two-game series under DickRod.

 

[BlufftonBuckeye]

Lets take a look at who was throwing to those guys during those years:

2011- True Frosh Braxton Miller.
2010- Pryor, had a solid year. Someone was catching his 2772 yards
2009- Pryor, not known for an accurate arm - 18 TDs to 11 INTs
2007- Todd Boeckman. A guy that really had one solid year, sandwiched between two solid QBs (Smith and Pryor). He had a TD:INT ratio of 25:14.
2004- The year of the two QB system. The Bucks couldn't figure out if they wanted Smith or Zwick at the helm.
2001- Steve Bellasari. Enough said?

I noticed nothing was said about receivers during the Krenzel and Smith years.

Great point

 

[Abenaki]

The only reason why we're giving up "only" 24.57 PPG is because MSU's offense flat fucking sucks. We gave 485 yards and 38 offensive points to Nebraska, and 481 yards and 49 offensive points to Indiana the last two games. That's 483 yards and 43.5 points per game. Those are our sixth and seventh regular season, and second and third conference, games of the season. The same/similar games under DickRod:

2008: 46 points to PSU, 35 points to MSU (40.5 PPG)
2009: 30 points Iowa, 35 points to PSU (32.5 PPG)
2010: 34 to MSU, 38 points to Iowa (36.0 PPG)

Our defensive performance over the last two games was worse than any similar two-game series under DickRod.

Well that's depressing.

For the full comparison on both sides, at this point in his tenure at TSUN, RichRod was 2-5 (1-2) and his offense never put up 63 and 52 in back-to-back games. He only broke 50 twice, against a 2-win BG team and in triple OT against Illinois, both in 2010.

Still doesn't make me feel any better about the defense though...

 

[Muck]

Our defensive performance over the last two games was worse than any similar two-game series under DickRod.

Luckily that would only be of significant value if the Rodriguez & Fickell & Co D tenures only consisted of two games.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Building on my earlier point: We just gave up 87 points total to UNL and IU, more than any two-game span in our entire history. This was only the second time we've ever given up 38 points or more in consecutive games in the regular season...that was way back in 1893 when we gave up 38 points to Oberlin and 42 points to Kenyon (80 points total). The only other time we've done that at all was at the end of 2006: Regular season finale against Michigan (39 points) and BCSCG against Florida (41 points)...again, 80 points total.

To say the defensive meltdown of the last two weeks has been historic to an epic degree is not hyperbole.

 

[MaxBuck]

Building on my earlier point: We just gave up 87 points total to UNL and IU, more than any two-game span in our entire history.

I don't mean to derail the downer train here, but is our 115 points more than we've ever scored in any 2-game span?