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2020 tOSU Recruiting Discussion

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NFBuck said:
5* RBs are fun to get, but it's one of the positions I'm least concerned with stars. A look at tOSU's top RBs with their star and national ranks (per 247) over the past 15 years:

Antonio Pittman (2004-06) *** / NR
Beanie Wells (2006-08) ***** / #7
Boom Herron (2008-11) *** / #361
Carlos Hyde (2011-13) **** / #227
Zeke Elliott (2014-15) **** / #69
Mike Weber (2016-18) **** / #75
JK Dobbins (2017- ) **** / #46

Beanie was the only 5*, and he met the hype. Zeke/Weber/Dobbins were all high 4*/Top-100 kids...Zeke became an all-timer, Weber was very good, and the book's still open on Dobbins, but he's been very good. Pittman was a middling recruit who racked up 2600+ yards in 2 full seasons as a starter. Boom was a 3* kid who was excellent his last two years. Hyde was a mid-4* recruit who had two monster seasons before leaving for the NFL. So, we've traditionally recruited very well, but have gotten by with guys like Pittman, Boom and Hyde who weren't really "elite" recruits.

Lets see where the guys above checked in:

Demario McCall (2016- ) **** / #44
Master Teague (2018- ) **** / #228
Steele Chambers (2019- ) **** / #231
Marcus Crowley (2019- ) **** / #370

I have no doubt at least one of those guys becomes a star.
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That's all interesting information, but kind of irrelevant, at least to my way of thinking.

The Ohio State staff identified (at least) seven running backs as their top tier prospects, the six who already made official visits and subsequently committed elsewhere - Kendall Milton, Bijan Robinson, Sam Adams II, Blake Corum, DeaMonte Trayanum, Jaylan Knighton - plus Zachary Evans, who canceled an unofficial visit and now appears wholly uninterested in Ohio State. The staff targeted and pursued seven players, and they struck out with all seven (including two who were nearly Buckeye locks). That's bad recruiting on their part. No other way to spin it.

Now the staff might very well sign a Heisman winning running back in the class of 2020, but that will be much more a matter of luck than solid recruiting. Kind of like hitting a shot into a bunker, then holing the next one. A good result, but not a solid plan for continued success.

PS - running back recruiting got off to a bad start when the staff accepted an early verbal from Darvon Hubard (July of 2018), then gracefully cut him loose after the coaching change (February of 2019). Not only did Hubbard's decommitment leave a hole at the RB position, but after his decommitment the staff had a lot of catching up to do with their top tier targets. They almost got the job done with Bijan Robinson and Jaylan Knighton, but lost on both in the eleventh hour. If they'd begun seriously pursuing those guys last summer, would one (or both) of them be Buckeyes now? Who knows, but the Hubbard recruitment is another sorry chapter in this 2020 running back saga.
 
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LordJeffBuck said:
That's all interesting information, but kind of irrelevant, at least to my way of thinking.

The Ohio State staff identified (at least) seven running backs as their top tier prospects, the six who already made official visits and subsequently committed elsewhere - Kendall Milton, Bijan Robinson, Sam Adams II, Blake Corum, DeaMonte Trayanum, Jaylan Knighton - plus Zachary Evans, who canceled an unofficial visit and now appears wholly uninterested in Ohio State. The staff targeted and pursued seven players, and they struck out with all seven (including two who were nearly Buckeye locks). That's bad recruiting on their part. No other way to spin it.

Now the staff might very well sign a Heisman winning running back in the class of 2020, but that will be much more a matter of luck than solid recruiting. Kind of like hitting a shot into a bunker, then holing the next one. A good result, but not a solid plan for continued success.

PS - running back recruiting got off to a bad start when the staff accepted an early verbal from Darvon Hubard (July of 2018), then gracefully cut him loose after the coaching change (February of 2019). Not only did Hubbard's decommitment leave a hole at the RB position, but after his decommitment the staff had a lot of catching up to do with their top tier targets. They almost got the job done with Bijan Robinson and Jaylan Knighton, but lost on both in the eleventh hour. If they'd begun seriously pursuing those guys last summer, would one (or both) of them be Buckeyes now? Who knows, but the Hubbard recruitment is another sorry chapter in this 2020 running back saga.
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A quibble: I know those guys are all committed elsewhere as of now, but it seems like stretch to call August 2019 "the eleventh hour" for the 2020 recruiting class, with schools and recruits still to play an entire season of football.
 
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LordJeffBuck said:
That's all interesting information, but kind of irrelevant, at least to my way of thinking.

The Ohio State staff identified (at least) seven running backs as their top tier prospects, the six who already made official visits and subsequently committed elsewhere - Kendall Milton, Bijan Robinson, Sam Adams II, Blake Corum, DeaMonte Trayanum, Jaylan Knighton - plus Zachary Evans, who canceled an unofficial visit and now appears wholly uninterested in Ohio State. The staff targeted and pursued seven players, and they struck out with all seven (including two who were nearly Buckeye locks). That's bad recruiting on their part. No other way to spin it.

Now the staff might very well sign a Heisman winning running back in the class of 2020, but that will be much more a matter of luck than solid recruiting. Kind of like hitting a shot into a bunker, then holing the next one. A good result, but not a solid plan for continued success.

PS - running back recruiting got off to a bad start when the staff accepted an early verbal from Darvon Hubard (July of 2018), then gracefully cut him loose after the coaching change (February of 2019). Not only did Hubbard's decommitment leave a hole at the RB position, but after his decommitment the staff had a lot of catching up to do with their top tier targets. They almost got the job done with Bijan Robinson and Jaylan Knighton, but lost on both in the eleventh hour. If they'd begun seriously pursuing those guys last summer, would one (or both) of them be Buckeyes now? Who knows, but the Hubbard recruitment is another sorry chapter in this 2020 running back saga.
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Oh, I'm not making excuses for them messing up this year, just saying that it shoudn't seriously hamstring the program going forward. They can recover, but have to lock up a couple of good backs in 2021.
 
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I think Lord Jeff's point still stands. We evaluated the talent, set our targets and went 0 for 7. That is not how we populated the rest of our roster.

The past two years there were only 2 five star RBs in each class. This year there are 5 - and they are going to Clemson, Oklahoma, Georgia and likely Alabama. All of the teams we will be competing with for a spot in the playoffs.

That said, I agree with the point on recruiting kids before their senior year as well. Imagine the NFL conducting the draft this weekend.

Sure, we see them in camps (a poor man's combine), but their most significant season is yet to come. And they are 16 and 17 - still seeing enormous development (and sometimes not).

But if you are going to play a wait and see game before you recruit you are going to end up being a Wisconsin or MSU.
 
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Oh8ch said:
I think Lord Jeff's point still stands. We evaluated the talent, set our targets and went 0 for 7. That is not how we populated the rest of our roster.

The past two years there were only 2 five star RBs in each class. This year there are 5 - and they are going to Clemson, Oklahoma, Georgia and likely Alabama. All of the teams we will be competing with for a spot in the playoffs.

That said, I agree with the point on recruiting kids before their senior year as well. Imagine the NFL conducting the draft this weekend.

Sure, we see them in camps (a poor man's combine), but their most significant season is yet to come. And they are 16 and 17 - still seeing enormous development (and sometimes not).

But if you are going to play a wait and see game before you recruit you are going to end up being a Wisconsin or MSU.
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Keep in mind, we’re SPECIFICALLY speaking of RB recruiting. I don’t think you can add Wisconsin in that context. They never sign 5 stars and consistently have a good RB.

Again, you don’t need a 5 star RB to beat Clemson, Oklahoma, UGA, or Bama. It’s nice to have, but not a make or break thing.

Clemson didn’t offer Travis Etienne until January of 2017.

Alabama didn’t offer Josh Jacobs until January of 2016.
 
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Agreed on what is being said on RB. Staff going 0 for 7 is not good. But the rest of this class is absolutely stellar and RB is one of the lowest positions on the totem pole of recruiting. It's only August and we'll get a good back or two. That being said, Robinson is the one that stings to me. Absolutely dynamic back that is going to be a star at UT. Especially hurts when we had him all but locked up.

Alright, enough about that. Hopefully we can get back in with Drennen. I hate the thought of him leaving Ohio.
 
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buchtelgrad04 said:
Keep in mind, we’re SPECIFICALLY speaking of RB recruiting. I don’t think you can add Wisconsin in that context. They never sign 5 stars and consistently have a good RB.

Again, you don’t need a 5 star RB to beat Clemson, Oklahoma, UGA, or Bama. It’s nice to have, but not a make or break thing.

Clemson didn’t offer Travis Etienne until January of 2017.

Alabama didn’t offer Josh Jacobs until January of 2016.
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Wiscy is an interesting study in RB development. A look at their RBs in the same period I covered earlier:

Anthony Davis (2001-04) *** / NR
Brian Calhoun (2005) **** / #124 (Transferred in from Colorado)
P.J. Hill (2005-08) *** / #817 (Redshirt 2005)
John Clay (2007-10) **** / #59 (Redshirt 2007)
Montee Ball (2009-12) *** / #377
James White (2010-13) *** / #511
Melvin Gordon (2011-14) **** / #251
Corey Clement (2013-16) **** / #151
Jonathan Taylor (2017- ) *** / #371

They've recruited ONE top-100 back going back to 2001, but each of those guys eclipsed 1000 yards at least once, and Davis, Hill, Ball, Gordon and Taylor were All-Americans (Ball & Gordon were Heisman finalists). Helps that they develop OL like nobody else, but they've never recruited a 5* back, and the average national rank of their RBs is #333, or a borderline 3*/4* kid.
 
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Read it all and hopefully digested it all, but still for the life of me cannot fathom why a young RB would be 'disinterested' in tOSU. Just a look at the Heisman wall (all RBs except for Troy, I believe), and compare that with any other university in the nation. Just wonder what sorta stuff is being said about tOSU and Day. Passing offense first, probably, but looking at two RBs that averaged 1,000 yards EACH, indicate otherwise. Probably will never know, but it is pre-season......maybe it's because tOSU makes them go to class? Anyway, we'll be fine, so go Bucks!!
 
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NFBuck said:
Wiscy is an interesting study in RB development. A look at their RBs in the same period I covered earlier:

Anthony Davis (2001-04) *** / NR
Brian Calhoun (2005) **** / #124 (Transferred in from Colorado)
P.J. Hill (2005-08) *** / #817 (Redshirt 2005)
John Clay (2007-10) **** / #59 (Redshirt 2007)
Montee Ball (2009-12) *** / #377
James White (2010-13) *** / #511
Melvin Gordon (2011-14) **** / #251
Corey Clement (2013-16) **** / #151
Jonathan Taylor (2017- ) *** / #371

They've recruited ONE top-100 back going back to 2001, but each of those guys eclipsed 1000 yards at least once, and Davis, Hill, Ball, Gordon and Taylor were All-Americans (Ball & Gordon were Heisman finalists). Helps that they develop OL like nobody else, but they've never recruited a 5* back, and the average national rank of their RBs is #333, or a borderline 3*/4* kid.
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That’s why I said before that so many other factors go into a RBs success that I’m not concerned at all.

Since Oklahoma was brought up, 4 of their last 5 leading rushers were low 4* recruits. Joe Mixon being the only blue chip recruit.

Clemson’s highest rated RB recruit since CJ Spiller could never grasp the starting job and left. Their last 5 leading rushers were low 4* Travis Etienne twice & 3* OLB Wayne Gallman (who was mainly offered to get Robert Nkemdiche) three times. Before him was low 4* Roderick McDowell.

If you have a good offensive line/scheme, any good RB is going to make an impact.
 
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GoBux20 said:
Zeke was the 5th rated APB. The number 13 ranked RB. It is amazing to see the names listed in front of him.
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It’s damn near impossible to rank RB outta HS....

What’s their competition like, do they have an OL in front of them, what kind of system do they play in, are they getting good coaching?

It’s such a crapshoot.

I think Zeke’s ranking was pretty fair. He flashed, but he didn’t look like a top 5 pick.

Bijan Robinson for example looks like an elite prospect in HS, but what’s his ceiling? Can he run between tackles? He’s manhandling kids much smaller than him.....does he have the ability to grow much or is he already pretty close to his ceiling?

I’d love to land those 5* RB’s, but if you have coaching staff that can identify specific traits, especially within a system, all will be well and then some.

Kareem Hunt
LeVeon Bell
David Johnson
Jordan Howard
Melvin Gordon
James Connor
Tevin Coleman
Etc

So much good talent out there.

And to rank them on size on size or dominance at HS level when they’re about to get the best weight training and nutrition program they’ve ever had is kinda silly IMO.
 
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billmac91 said:
It’s damn near impossible to rank RB outta HS....

What’s their competition like, do they have an OL in front of them, what kind of system do they play in, are they getting good coaching?

It’s such a crapshoot.

I think Zeke’s ranking was pretty fair. He flashed, but he didn’t look like a top 5 pick.

Bijan Robinson for example looks like an elite prospect in HS, but what’s his ceiling? Can he run between tackles? He’s manhandling kids much smaller than him.....does he have the ability to grow much or is he already pretty close to his ceiling?

I’d love to land those 5* RB’s, but if you have coaching staff that can identify specific traits, especially within a system, all will be well and then some.

Kareem Hunt
LeVeon Bell
David Johnson
Jordan Howard
Melvin Gordon
James Connor
Tevin Coleman
Etc

So much good talent out there.

And to rank them on size on size or dominance at HS level when they’re about to get the best weight training and nutrition program they’ve ever had is kinda silly IMO.
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We're talking about OSU coaches ranking these players here. Not a web site.

They absolutely identified and ranked a pool of players that they felt would make a difference for the offense. One can only assume that they ranked them from most likely to be an impact player to least likely.

The OSU coaches just took an 0-fer on the players that they scouted, ranked and recruited.

The "stars don't matter" argument is valid when the coaches big board is different from the recruiting services rankings. When a coaching staff whiffs on it's own big board, "stars don't matter" is completely missing the point.
 
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