UFOs and the existence of other life

[dman010101]

What's more telling to me is people's willingness to blindly believe in aliens when the same people won't believe in a lot more credible existence of jesus... but then again believing in aliens doesn't force them to change their lifestyle. Anyway, no need to hijack this thread into a religion discussion, just pointing out something interesting.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

What's more telling to me is people's willingness to blindly believe in aliens when the same people won't believe in a lot more credible existence of jesus... but then again believing in aliens doesn't force them to change their lifestyle. Anyway, no need to hijack this thread into a religion discussion, just pointing out something interesting.

People have been saying for generations that Jesus will return. These are the same people that believed so firmly the world was flat and that the Earth was the center of the universe that they imprisoned and sometimes killed those who said otherwise. We see how right they were.

We are constantly learning more and more about the universe outside our solar system and outside our galaxy. The possibilities of other life are greater than most of us had ever thought.

 

[dman010101]

People have been saying for generations that Jesus will return. These are the same people that believed so firmly the world was flat and that the Earth was the center of the universe that they imprisoned and sometimes killed those who said otherwise. We see how right they were.

We are constantly learning more and more about the universe outside our solar system and outside our galaxy. The possibilities of other life are greater than most of us had ever thought.

People have NOT been saying for generations that Jesus would return at a specific date. If you're interested in a religion that can be debunked by errant predictions, check out mormonism. And I would not place the blame for the flat Earth upon Christianity... I would agree tho that there were many who lost sight of what Christianity was about (heck the majority of Europe did) back in those days. There's definitely a fundamental difference between those "Christians" and the martin luther's of the world (I'm not condemning catholicism here, merely those who were merely christians by tradition).

There are possibilities for life on other planets. However we have not yet found one that supports taht argument. Clearly this is because of a lack of resources on our part that we have not been able to do enough research... that and the fact that without warp drives any expeditions would be pointless as we would return 100's of years from now.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Personally, I am of the opinion that we are the only "intelligent" life in the universe (based on my religious beliefs, which says we are unique--i.e. created in the image of God).

I really don't get it. There is a huge disconnect between allegedly being "created in God's image" and being "unique" as applied to whether there exists intelligent life in the universe. Hell, there is intelligent life on this planet that looks unlike man (Dolphins) so one of us must not be "in his image" But then, in my mind "in his image" isn't really talking about anything other than man and God sharing attributes, i.e man and god are both creators. Man and god are both converters of energy to mass. and so on. In any case, man need not be unique for God to exist, or for God to be powerful, or for God to love us. In fact, a God who was able to do those things in a universe with a couple billion intelligent species out there would be a more powerful God than the lightweight you've described who can only keep up with 1 group of "unique" things.

A God the is "supreme" would "rule" over every life form, in any universe, this one or any parrallel universe. Don't make God so weak that he can only have one group of people to keep up with. It's insulting to God, and frankly, makes you look like you're going out of your way to be decieved. And there is no reason for it whatever.

I've never seen any scientific proof that God doesn't exist. In fact, maybe I don't understand it well enough, but I think M-Theory - with it's "Every possible universe exists" business - actually goes a long way towards allowing room for this infinite God I think you believe in.

I don't know, I don't want to sound like I'm stepping on your nuts here, but I really don't get the fear of reality that I think I'm observing in your post. I may be drawing too many inferences from the words you used, but it looks to me as if you're one of those people that wants us to take a step backwards, scientifically, and keep our eyes closed to reality to perserve your vision of a limited God who acts without mercy on a mere whim. A God who kills. A God who is jelous. A God who is to be feared. A God who must be pleased, or you face eternal damnation. If guys like Gallileo and DaVinci were afforded the support of the church.... do you realize how more technologically advanced we'd be? DaVinci's inventions were hundred of years before there time... hell, he even invented SCUBA gear that I saw on the Disc. channel once, works.... He had the idea 400 years before SCUBA became a reality, give or take... 400 wasted years.

Why did we waste so much time? Because religion was worried if the truth got out then they'd become unimportant. As Mili mentioned, there is well documented evidence of religion leading people astray. The church has been wrong on damn near every thing - with the possible exception of the existance of God. Why, then, would you throw away your rational brain and choose to believe something that requires you to completely ignore reality, or to twist it in to a form that is almost a hallucination?

I mean, for God's sake... there are those who seriously assert that dinosaur bones have been "planted by the devil" to cover up that the earth is only about 6,000 years old... and for what? So some joker's version of some biblical timeline works. It's absurd, and it makes religion lose credibility when it has to stretch so far.

Again, I don't mean to bust your stones here, and I'm probably assuming too much, but it pisses me off when so called religious folks don't give ultimate glory to God and insist on making God a "Super human" and apparently one that is not "super enough" that he can have 2 intelligent life forms worship him. Oh, and real quick.. speaking of unique.... Jews have been made certain promises by God, right? Jews are God's choosen people, after all.... If uniqueness is what you're looking for, you may be able to give up this Jesus fella and join in to quite the exclusive club! Hell, with nose jobs being what they are today, you'd probably be able to blend in unnoticed entirely.

And, for what it's worth, it's possible that the Bible itself admits to the existence of UFO's... See Eziekel.

 

[Saw31]

Not so crazy if time and the universe are truly infinite (no beginning or end). Every possibility would therefore have occurred infinitely and will occur infinitely. That would mean not only is there another planet exactly like earth, but an infinite amount of earths.

If one considers the beginning of time to be the Big Bang, then if time is infinite (and infinite in only one direction) the universe will have a cold dark ending. Your second and third sentences seem to be indicating that at this precise point in time, there are an infinite number of possibilities that could occur. In this existence (universe), I have decided to reply to this thread; in another I did not. The idea of multiple universes (an infinite number of universes if you will) has been around for several years. I remember discussing it with profs at OSU during the 1980's.

I've heard a couple different theories of the BIG BANG. The first is that everything will continue to move away or spread apart endlessly from the point in space where the BIG BANG occurred, meaning time is only "infinite" in one direction. In other words, there was a beginning of time, but there is no end. This indicates the possibilities are in fact "infinite" and that all possibilities will in fact occur, but haven't necessarily occurred yet.

I've also heard that instead of endlessly moving away or spreading apart, at some point gravitational pull will actually slow this spread and eventually reverse this spread. Everything will once again meet back at the point where it all started, creating another BIG BANG and start the cycle all over again. This would indicate that time is/was "infinite" in both directions with a new "starting point" every so often. This would also indicate that even though time is "infinite" in both directions, there is only a "finite" time between "starting points" to achieve these "infinite possibilities" that I suggested in my first post. If this theory is correct, although time and space are in fact "infinite", the possibilities would not be "infinite" because of the repeating cycles of BIG BANGS, where everything is destroyed and recreated at the same instant. This indicates to me that, while every possibility may occur, they do not occur at the same time or don't have enough time to occur. So instead of there being an infinite number of Saw31s replying to this thread at the same time, there were and will be an infinite number of Saw31s who have replyed and will reply to this thread, since this possibility has occured at least once.

I may have just infinitely confused myself or will confuse myself in the future again, infinitely of course.....

Unfortunately for us, none of us will be around to ever know the answer to these questions. But it is fun to throw around ideas.

 

[buckeyegrad]

UFO's and these visitors have been recorded by the Mayans, Alexander the Great's armies, WW II fighter pilots, etc....

Maybe, maybe not. As the program on the History channel indicated, people who read Mayan, Biblical (e.g. Ezekial) or other ancient accounts are placing a modern interpretation filled with our biases and misunderstanding of the past on them. Or as they stated, "interpreting one mythology through the lenses of another."

Not to slam the astronomers on the program, as I am sure that they are very respected, but this type of thinking is too confined to our experiences and our progress as a species. For me, the problem with saying the distances are so vast (and they are mind boggling vast) that it is highly improbable that anyone has visited us leaves out the possibility of another life form having a few million years on us in the evolutionary sense.

Originally, I agreed with this statement from a hypothetical standpoint (i.e. assuming other intelligent life does exist), but one of the astronomers actually stated even accounting for a civilization well advanced beyond our understanding of the space, time, and energy, the numbers are still against them finding us and then being able to travel here. This same guy stated that the scientific community has done a very poor job of conveying to the general public that there are certain things they can confidently rule out as being probable...visitors from other planets is one of these things. (NOTE: I don't know how reliable this astronomer is since I'm no scientist or astronomer, I'm just repeating what he said to add to this conversation.)

I really don't get it. There is a huge disconnect between allegedly being "created in God's image" and being "unique" as applied to whether there exists intelligent life in the universe....

Kickbuttocks, I'm not sure how to respond to your entire message as your depiction of my understanding of God is so far off, it would take about a 10,000 word essay to clear up everything. However, I esentially believe our differences boil down to where we derive our understandings of God. I've stated many times on these boards that it is completely reasonable to believe in the existence of a "God", it takes the leap of faith to believe that a) "God" is benevolent and/or b) He has revealed himself to us.

My leap of faith is that God has revealed Himself to us through the writings of particular Jewish writings and the life of Christ, which is composed in the Bible. Therefore, I try to keep my understanding of God limited to what I believe He has revealed to us. I know this revelation is not complete...the Bible says so itself, but I do not feel at liberty to add anything the revelation simply because I can reason it (Revelation 22:18 actually says a curse will fall onto those who do such). As I can see no evidence of alien life in the universe through the Bible, I cannot assume it exists simply because reason can allow for the possibility. (And yes, I read von Daniken's Chariots of the Gods when I was in junior high, so I know the argument of a spaceship being represented in Ezekiel. However, von Daniken and others like him error in trying to straight-jacket the apocolyptic writing styles popular in the time period Ezekiel was written into their own modern mythology.)

I'd love to continue this, but the in-laws just stopped for a visit....I'll try to pick this up later.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

People have NOT been saying for generations that Jesus would return at a specific date...

Where do you see the words "at a specific date" in my statement? People HAVE been saying for generations that Jesus will return, but conveniently never narrow it down...

 

[RugbyBuck]

I don't doubt for a minute that intelligent life exists in some form in other places in the universe. Given the enormity of the scale involved, it would be more surprising if life did not exist other than on one planet near an obscure star on the outerside of a fairly unremarkable galaxy. I don't know whether this life, our existence, and the rest of the universe were somehow created or set in motion by a MUCH higher power, but I don't know enough to doubt it as a possibility. I do doubt the existence of the anthropocentric God created and perpetuated by humans. Similarly, I doubt, very seriously, the existence of aliens purported to have visited earth, UFOs, etc.

 

[Steve19]

Similarly, I doubt, very seriously, the existence of aliens purported to have visited earth, UFOs, etc.

Damn, I knew that eventually we'd disagree. Aliens have visited this earth, and I can prove it. My ex-wife was an alien. There simply can be no other explanation. She had to be an alien.

 

[RugbyBuck]

Damn, I knew that eventually we'd disagree. Aliens have visited this earth, and I can prove it. My ex-wife was an alien. There simply can be no other explanation. She had to be an alien.

Nope, we're on the same page, if in different hemispheres. I should've said that while I doubt both propositions, I am open to each, given the existence of corraborative evidence. Your's is first-hand anecdotal evidence for the existence and visitation of aliens. I stand corrected, cheers.

 

[OilerBuck]

Let me preface this by saying I never did well in physics. In my simple little mind, M-theory is basically a new form of String Theory. I saw a special on it a couple of months ago on PBS and it was pretty interesting. What stuck with me is that scientists now believe there are 11 dimensions and we may have multiple parallel solar systems and more. It really sounded like science fiction as they were theorizing there may be worlds where Hitler won WWII. Really crazy stuff.

http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html

Were you a "Sliders" fan by any chance? A lot of this theory was played out in fiction, but it's really awesome. I bought season 1 on DVD.

 

[Deety]

Let me preface this by saying I never did well in physics. In my simple little mind, M-theory is basically a new form of String Theory. I saw a special on it a couple of months ago on PBS and it was pretty interesting. What stuck with me is that scientists now believe there are 11 dimensions and we may have multiple parallel solar systems and more. It really sounded like science fiction as they were theorizing there may be worlds where Hitler won WWII. Really crazy stuff.

http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html

Heinlein could've told you that.

 

[greatwhitenorth]

I don't doubt for a minute that intelligent life exists in some form in other places in the universe. Given the enormity of the scale involved, it would be more surprising if life did not exist other than on one planet near an obscure star on the outerside of a fairly unremarkable galaxy. I don't know whether this life, our existence, and the rest of the universe were somehow created or set in motion by a MUCH higher power, but I don't know enough to doubt it as a possibility. I do doubt the existence of the anthropocentric God created and perpetuated by humans. Similarly, I doubt, very seriously, the existence of aliens purported to have visited earth, UFOs, etc.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[RugbyBuck]

I couldn't agree more.

Well, in that case, let me do something about all of those red chicklets of your's. Here ya go, eh.

Wow, dude, you must have really pissed some people off because I just hit you with green reps and it didn't seem to make any difference. :)

 

[wdg01]

I think the first one is the generally more accepted at this point. I dont think there is enough matter (mass) in the universe to cause it to colapse and create another big bang. The universe in a couple hundered billion years will just be individual atoms light years appart from each other.

I've heard a couple different theories of the BIG BANG. The first is that everything will continue to move away or spread apart endlessly from the point in space where the BIG BANG occurred, meaning time is only "infinite" in one direction. In other words, there was a beginning of time, but there is no end. This indicates the possibilities are in fact "infinite" and that all possibilities will in fact occur, but haven't necessarily occurred yet.

I've also heard that instead of endlessly moving away or spreading apart, at some point gravitational pull will actually slow this spread and eventually reverse this spread. Everything will once again meet back at the point where it all started, creating another BIG BANG and start the cycle all over again. This would indicate that time is/was "infinite" in both directions with a new "starting point" every so often. This would also indicate that even though time is "infinite" in both directions, there is only a "finite" time between "starting points" to achieve these "infinite possibilities" that I suggested in my first post. If this theory is correct, although time and space are in fact "infinite", the possibilities would not be "infinite" because of the repeating cycles of BIG BANGS, where everything is destroyed and recreated at the same instant. This indicates to me that, while every possibility may occur, they do not occur at the same time or don't have enough time to occur. So instead of there being an infinite number of Saw31s replying to this thread at the same time, there were and will be an infinite number of Saw31s who have replyed and will reply to this thread, since this possibility has occured at least once.

I may have just infinitely confused myself or will confuse myself in the future again, infinitely of course.....

Unfortunately for us, none of us will be around to ever know the answer to these questions. But it is fun to throw around ideas.