*Warning - optimistic post* - compare to 2001, NC in 2005??? (Long)

[MistriBuck]

funny thing though, everyone thought that we were primed for a NC run in 03 not 02 with that team and we made it happen. no reason we can't in 05.

this is very much my point.......we had guys step up/come out of nowhere in '02 and that's all we need is a few of those guys to make it happen, like Krenzel/Gamble/Peterson/Wilhelm (all-american season), etc.

1. we need zwick/smith/boeckman/whoever to play like an all time great craig krenzel. certainly possible but not likely statistically.

agreed, maybe boeckman in his 3rd year steps up and equals krenzel in his 4th year? maybe smith gets some significant PT and blossoms into this role? zwick? not sold..........i'm not counting on it though, and this is the most critical aspect without a doubt in my opinion

2. we need pittman, haw, or recruit to play like maurice, another all time great. certainly possible but not likely statistically.

stop and think about this one for a second, do we REALLY NEED a Reecie type back or Reecie type production? as great as he was in the first half and as much press as he garnered, how many games did we win that year WITHOUT him? how many games was he the TRUE difference in? THREE........Wazzu, could of done it without him that game was about the D.........Michigan, different story, this is the ONE game we would not have won without him.........Miami, but not because of his production, because of "THE PLAY".........so if you really think about it we just need some solid production.........but that will depend HEAVILY on the o-line situation as was pointed out by SDGO and KN1F3.........hey the talent is there, will they step up and will constructive actions be taken??? god i hope so

HOw much has our defense suffered by losing our D coordinator? Or is it just loss of talent that has made such a big difference this year?

check out the other post i just put up........this answers your question in great detail, there are INCREDIBLE similarities between D'Antonio and Snyder's first years........and i offer up some reasons why we can actually be more excited about the '05 defense than the '02 as crazy as it sounds, and some answers to those that question if this current d-line (or more importantly front 7 as a whole) has the same potential as the '01 d-line


<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

 

[tundra1]

Hopefully we can get a running back to come in like Clarett. Come on JStew.

As long as he doesn't go out like Clarett. And I agree with you 100%--come on, JStew!

 

[FKAGobucks877]

Dude, that is a great post. All three of them. You have actually inspired me....I have been feeling better the last couple of days or so, knowing that we were now playing the rest of this season solely for November 20 and next year. These kids and their coaches are gaining very valuable experience right now, and a shitload of them will be back next year. I also like the fact that Tressel was playing a lot of the underclassmen back-ups as well, gaining them valuable PT. Next year's schedule is not easy, but having Purdue and Wisky off the schedule will help...although they both lose their best offensive threat...Minny could still be tough, but in the B10, it's all about rushing offense, and even more so, DEFENSE. I will feel extremely good if a coaching change on the OL is made before spring ball....otherwise, I really don't think we have a very good chance. The OL MUST perform. I actually believe the talent we have, especially next year, is outstanding....but the coaching needs to improve. It needs to.

 

[MistriBuck]

Dude, that is a great post. All three of them. You have actually inspired me

hey thx man - seriously, i really surprised myself with this stuff, and i'm inspired now too..........BELIEVE ME, i've been as negative and critical as ANYONE until i thought this up, on "that other board", justifiably i haven't had anything good to say about the coaches........it was actually someone else, wish i could remember who, that pointed out that D'Antonio wasn't great his first year either and give Snyder some time, that got me thinking, and that's what this whole thing spun from.......and as i started thinking more and digging more (especially with the last one with the stats) i started getting REALLY excited............the x factor here (aside from qb play) is the constructive changes on offense that we're all so desperately craving, and IF THAT HAPPENS, my god, watch out!!! but even if it doesn't i can live with knowing that based on JT's history and this team's history that a top 5 team, and maybe another run will still be highly possible, will just have to stay on the heart meds

P.S. - i broke out the Avatar, i've come full circle on BuckeyePlanet!

 

[3yardsandacloud]

WTF! Um, yeah, well, I just might have to ban you for that optimism Mistri. Didn't you get the memo? This season will be pessimism, followed by dispair, then bashing of the players and coaching staff ... and that's all I'm going to say about that!











BTW, well done.

 

[MistriBuck]

hey i put a disclaimer!! you entered at your own risk :tongue2:

 

[3yardsandacloud]

Ok, ok, but next time try and hide these positive posts in the Romper Room. It's password protected and all, so people will actually have to work to read this stuff.

 

[UpNorthBuckeye]

re: Good things in 2005....

When you were running down the players who might make a difference next year, you left out Sirjo Welch. I think he has been awesome on the kickoff teams, and he oughta be a great DB. The dude hits like Jack "TCMA" Tatum!!

I also remember that the sweet thing about beating Michigan in 01 was that over the span of the Cooper years, the UM fans had stopped CARING about Ohio State --- it almost seemed like they got more fired up for the Sparties, because they were just ASSUMING they were going to beat the Buckeyes.

My point is, it's the bad years (like all of the 90s!) that inspire the great years, and I hope that lessons are being learned by the players AND the coaches this year that will make 2005 a huge year. Good coaching can take a negative experience like going 6 and 5 and turn it into a positive attitude in 2005.

Go Bucks!

 

[StoRMinBrutus]

When OSU's offensive line matures a little and kids like Kirk Barton and Steve Rehring, Kyle Mitchum, Ben Person, and John Skinner start pushing these present Offensive linemen to step it up or else, then you'll see the team as a whole have something to build on and the team will do better. The Offensive line will do better one way or another (can't do any worse). Ohio State has such a great future with all these young, big, agressive Offensive linemen coming in. Its just a matter of will the present Offensive linemen step it up or do the fans have to wait until the next generation comes in and gets the job done. That saying "Games are won or lost in the trenches" couldn't be more apparent as it is with this present OSU team. I sure hope there are changes in the O-line coaching as well because the O-line has not improved in 3 years. At least have one of the coaches teach them to have proper footwork and sustaining blocks. I don't care if its Brutus out there teaching them proper techniques, it would look better than we have seen. Keep the faith though it will happen one way or another !!!

p.s. Good post MistriBuck

 

[MistriBuck]

i wanted to resurrect this thread.....i planned on coming back and comparing the '01 and '04 defenses when it was all said and done

well, this whole thing started because of the doom and gloom that was pervasive on the boards after the Iowa embarassment.....particularly everyone was VERY DOWN on our defense and Mark Snyder at the time........my main point was to show how the '04 defense was strikingly similar to '01 (D'Antonio's first year), and to show that we could expect an '02 type of defense back in '05.......i also pointed out overall similarities with the offense in the meantime............well now that the optimism for next year is already high due to our strong finish and predictions of preseason top 5, it's time to add some more fuel to that fire

in my earlier posts, at the time i presented evidence that our '05 defense could actually be STRONGER than '02.........now that it is all said and done, if we're using statistics as a measure, there is even MORE REASON to believe that our '05 defense will be much more stout than '02 (hard to believe eh?)........just look at the numbers i present below..........'04 defense ended up STRONGER than the '01 defense, and we have A LOT more returning, plus tons of young talent to push the starters, and potentially step up........we don't have a Will Smith but we have probably our best LB core ever........Snyder showed a lot in the last few games, and he has a year under his belt now..........also consider how terrible our offense was for most of '04, and how much our defense was on the field, makes it that much more impressive!!

some of the ?'s i had as to whether it would compare to '02 was someone stepping up at corner ala gamble, we have that in Youboty.........also we needed a leader to emerge at QB, if Smith keeps his nose clean we most likely have that, and Zwick showed promise too, so if not Smith, Zwick may be primed as well..............the other ? was RB, we have no Clarett, but an evolving offense with Ginn, Holmes, the rest of the young talented receivers, and the speed at RB i think should be ATLEAST as potent if not more than '02.........the only ? left is kicker, please lord let somebody step up

now for the #'s

--------------------------------------------------------------

2001 Defense___________________2004 Defense
PPG: 20.3______________________PPG: 18.2
Rush YPG: 138.8________________ Rush YPG: 130.4
Attempt: 3.6___________________Attempt: 3.5
Pass YPG: 197.0________________Pass YPG: 201.6
Attempt: 6.5___________________Attempt: 5.6
Total YPG: 335.8________________Total YPG: 332.0
Avg. Play: 4.9__________________Avg. Play: 4.6
3rd Down%: 46%_______________3rd Down%: 38%

Now, I broke down what we have returning in the front 7 production wise.......i did this intially because the question was if our D-line could compare to the '02 D-line.........i don't think that's possible, but i think the LB's make up for it, and i even believe our secondary will be stronger.........we had Nickey/Doss returning in '02, a soph. first year starter in Fox at corner and a huge ? at the other corner...........in '05 we have Salley/Whitner/Youboty, and a bit of a ? at the other corner, give me the '05 secondary any day, there are plenty of options to shore this unit up including Mr. Super Ginn

Sacks and TFL '01
22 sacks by DL and LB's, 72 TFL by DL and LB's...........of the 22 sacks, 73% of those were registered by returning players...............of the 72 TFL, only 68% were registered by returning players

Sacks and TFL '04
22 Sacks by DL and LB's, 60.5 TFL by DL and LB's...........of the 22 sacks, 89% were registered by returning players!!.........of the 60.5 TFL 92% were registered by returning players!!

-------------------------------------------------------

Overall, in summation, I'm expecting a better team in '05 than in '02, and expecting bigger things from them............there are 2 major keys as I see it: consistent QB play, and the offensive staff utilizing our talent properly............i think if those 2 things happen, we will be unstoppable...........you can argue that we need a kicker to step up, but if these 2 things happen, i think the importance of the kicker becomes diminished, because we should be able to put teams away easier

 

[sandgk]

Mistri --
When you factor in the _far_ stronger finish in 2004 vs that seen in 2001 I'd have to say sky's the limit for the '05 team.
They have enough name games on the schedule to force early and continued respect from Les Papiers and other eSPINners of Truth Football and the American Way.

As you said -- the D will be back and improved in many respects. Nothing I am about to state takes away from anything you wrote concerning the D.

For me though the other hidden jewel from the last half of last season was the improvement made on offense, didn't happen all at once, but happen it did and then it kept getting better.

The O-line -- I have high expectations for them.

What really has dramatically improved my assessment of where the Buckeyes can go in '05 boils down to these other factors.
1 -- We have game breakers in the ST - Ginn.
2 -- We have game breakers and game makers on offense Ginn (again) and Gonzalez and Holmes (and maybe Hall, and maybe Haw, and maybe Pittmann, and maybe Guilford and perhaps Wells and well maybe the D will be VERY WELL RESTED between each series - come out ears pinned back.
3 -- Again on Offense lets consider the state of affairs for our QB's. I'm looking for good things whether the signal calling falls to Zwick -- the way he gutted out the Alamo Bowl well -- that was a sign of greatly matured player. Being on his kyster got Zwick fired up, I think he'll keep that fire going. Like the song says "You Don't Know What You've Got Till Its Gone." Now Zwick knows, betcha he will never, ever forget. We know full well what brilliant skills as a runner Troy can bring to the came -- and I for one want to see his talents put to use in one fashion or another. Finally, should either of the "front runners" not shine or fall victim to injury we have great talent waiting in the wings. I have great confidence in our QB Corps.

Finally, in the column marked "INTANGIBLE ASSETS" we have a team that has been through a river of shit this year, had scorn heaped upon it from "fans" and the media. Yet, despite all the controversies, despite all the naysayers, and in the teeth of a barrage of twisted stories and self-inflcited public opinion faux pas, they finish out in superb style, beating sCUM, and (one better than 2001) convincingly win a Bowl game against a very creditable opponent. If this team isn't an example of circling the wagons - well then I think we need a new dictionary.

And finally, finally there's GINN.

Yep '05 looks very good indeed to me. Very, very good indeed.

 

[brutus2002]

We are 10x better in the return game than we were in 2002. Ginn and Holms can both take it to the house.

In 2002 we had 2 threats at WR in Jenkins and Holms. 2005 we have Ginn Holms and Gonzo not to mention the potential of Hall and Lyons.

If we have a TE that can even be as good as Hartsock production wise we will be fine.

If we can get a pair and a spare at RB will will be unstoppable.

 

[MistriBuck]

sand, i agree with you completely, i knew somebody would come on and talk up the offense, and how much more explosive it looks to be than '02, including our special teams, i only had time to focus on defense, plus i didn't want to make my post too long!!

i think Ginn's presence alone makes up for the lack of a punishing, workhouse RB like clarett, not to mention all of the other speed we have on that side of the ball, as long as they utilize them properly

amazing how much brighter the outlook is then it was when this post originated

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

HOw much has our defense suffered by losing our D coordinator? Or is it just loss of talent that has made such a big difference this year?

Big difference? Did you hibernate through the season? The 2005 defense wasn't any worse than 2004's...in fact it was 10 points better (219 points vs 229 points). Also, the 2004 defense significantly improved from the first half of the season to the second half, while the 2004 defense declined in the second half. And Snyder did this in his very first year despite losing three DL starters, including an All-American (Smith, Scott, Anderson) along with losing Chris "I can shut down anyone when I feel like playing" Gamble. Snyder is going to be a great DC.

 

[brutus2002]

Something to think about

In the last 5 games of the season we scored more PPG than Iowa did.

OSU 28 PPG
Iowa 27 PPG
Michigan 32.2 PPG

Iowa and OSU return virtually everyone on offense and Michigan loses their biggest weapon and best O-linemen.

I hear all this talk about how bad OSU was on offense but the numbers don't lie.

We ran a vanilla offense vs. PSU and we had our bowl game in the bag at halftime. The Purdue game we turned the ball over 4 times(twice in the red zone) or we might have score upwards of 30 instead of 17.

I'm very optimistic

(edit) Merged from its own thread...