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We Are Still Ohio State

Discussion in 'Buckeye Football' started by Carmen Ohio, Oct 18, 2004.

  1. Carmen Ohio

    Carmen Ohio Freshman

    Saturday wasn't pretty, but as I said last week if teams are going to get their shots in they've got this small window of opporunity. Everything looked shaky becuse we once again lost at the point of attack, but in knowing why there is hope. Yes, the offensive problems start with the line, but it's not because of a shortage of talent. As I've said many times on this board the lack of experience on this line was going to bite us in the butt for a while. The guys seemed to get it together in the second half of the Northwestern game but that was a relatively inferior line to what we faced with Wisconsin and Iowa. Remember this guys - Anttaj Hawthorne owned us last year and there was no reason to believe he couldn't do it again. Last year at Wisconsin CK couldn't do anything until the fourth quarter because Mangold and Clarke couldn't stop him... even on double-teams. We couldn't run or pass - we actually had more points against them this year because of special teams. Why did anybody think we would do a better job wiith Mangold, Datish and Kne when the latter had never seen a front like Wisky's. Remember, Erasmus James didn't play in last year's game. Before Santonio's fumble we were in it, but afterward their defense kicked it up a notch and we had no answer because our guys had never been there before and had no answer for the sheer strength and experience of their line. Iowa elected to expose our youth a different way - through a series of slants and line stunts intended to implode the pocket and totally eliminate any running lanes where either guard was the focus of the play. In other words, make it impossible to run up the middle. Having never seen so much stunting, Datish, Kne and Barton sometimes ended up blocking defenders into whoever was in the backfield. The common thread that made both games look worse for the O-line is that Mangold and Sims, God bless them, got out of position trying to help the young guys out. In talking about how Iowa was in our backfield all day, the commentors tried to illustrate how the stunting was killing us... they just didn't go far enough to explain that with Mangold and Sims sometimes out of position, there was no way we could have any offense in this game. By the way, this year's Wisconsin team would have beaten last year's OSU team as well. When James is healthy their defense is that good. They have a chance at winning the NC.

    On defense, I think because of a lack of experience we are once again very weak at middle linebacker. Anthony Schlegel is constantly overrunning plays and missing coverages because of his overagressiveness.... I think it's the main reason we're getting burned in the running game. I'll say it again, but my MVP from 2002 was Matt Wilhelm. We have yet to replace his nose for the ball in the middle. With D'Andrea out (a guy who also needed more work) we have to hope that Schlegel can pick up his game by laying back and reading more. When the coaches sit him down with the tapes this week I'm sure you'll see improvement. When the middle linebacker is out of position it kind of puts everybody out of position because they have to abandon their responsibilities to help. That is exactly why Iowa, Wisconsin and Northwestern were able to torch us on defense and that my friends is what's happening on both sides of the ball for OSU and why we have to have patience.

    If we can execute this week we could use that momentum to save the season from a win-loss standpoint. But even if it doesn't turn out that way remember that JT struggled with his first team at OSU (those vaunted Cooper recuits) only to go undefeated the next year after he fell under everybody's radar and introduced MoC to the football world. To me the team he's returning has as much potential (noticed JT hasn't unleashed Eric Haw) if we learn our lessons right. Nobody left on the schedule will show us that much more than we've already seen. So before we start throwing out the baby with the bathwater with this team, remember there are reasons behind the broad statements - our offensive line or our defense sucks. Guaranteed these are the same guys you'll be cheering once they know what they're doing... Guaranteed that will happen by the time we play Michigan.
  2. cablebuck

    cablebuck Half Man, Half Buckeye

    Interesting viewpoints. Are you a coach and did you re-watch the game? Everything you stated makes sense and I hope you're right.
    It's nice to see a positive viewpoint.

    "There are no secrets to success. Its the result of hard work, preparation, and learning from failure"

    If OSU believe in this quote, they'll be alright.
  3. GB3

    GB3 Newbie

    Just thought I would add my that I thought Wilhelm was underated while he was here...I would love to see him get a chance at San Diego, but they seem very deep at LB...

    You also have to keep in mind when evaluating this group...No Timmy Anderson, Kenny Peterson, and Will Smith....

    Still now word on Kerr? I heard he wont play this year, but havent heard why...
  4. Elephant

    Elephant Sophmore

    Carmen.....That analysis was beautiful[​IMG]
  5. BuckeyeNation27

    BuckeyeNation27 Goal Goal USA! Staff Member

    we are ........ ohio state?

  6. daddyphatsacs

    daddyphatsacs Let the cards fall...

    Fantastic post.

    I think that you really hit the nail on the head when you touched upon the MLB situation. We really have suffered from all the cutbacks of the running game. Northwestern ate us up with the cut back, Wisky ate us up off tackle, and Iowa ate us up on the cutback. That goes to show that the Middle backer is allowing the line to get a solid block on him, thus forcing the OLB to make the tackle, or possibly the secondary. Why do you think that AJ Hawk has so many tackles this season? There is no way that he should be leading the league in tackles, it goes to show that our D is having problems, especially along the line and at MLB. Normally you'd see an Indiana LB, or a Northwestern LB leading the league in tackles because they are on the field for so many plays. This is happening to us this season.

    I personally would like to see Hawk moved to MLB and Freeman brought in on the outside. I still am high on Schlegel, but it wouldn't hurt to get the young guys some reps so we can be an experienced club next season.
  7. Oh8ch

    Oh8ch Cognoscente of Omphaloskepsis Staff Member

    Great positive post Carmen. I was excited to see Barton get a chance because I thought it might only take one of the OL stepping up to make the entire line fall in place. As you point out, the OL is a unit and a weakness anywhere can affect everyone.

    The problem on the OL is exacerbated by the loss of the entire 2001 OL class and the loss of Derek Morris - whatever you might think of him. However, I am still not sold on how good the OL was last year when it should have been dominant with the experience and talent we had. So I will buy into the OL can get a lot better, but I'm not yet ready to agree it is where it should/could be. Also, the question remains why - if Iowa was throwing stunts at us that we couldn't handle - we didn't make some sort of adjustment from the booth. Don't we control the point of attack?

    The number I can't get out of my head is 24 yards rushing in the last six quarters.

    I would love to be proven a fool on this one.
  8. TallIndian

    TallIndian Rookie


    However, why can't we adjust.

    Why doesn't other teams not miss a beat when they change running backs.

    Mo C was a very good back. He was not Hershall Walker, he may have been a great back ... but we can't have all poor backs in all the backs on this years team.

    Schlegal is a fourth year junior ... he is not a frosh LB learning his position ...
    yea ... he is learning the OSU scheme ... but come on ... D'Andrea also has been in the system for multiple years .... the two of them together would have most teams drooling for their services .... but for some reason they are too inexperienced to be any good at all.

    Why are we so bad that we are not even in the top 100 teams out of 117 in the country on offense.

    I am sorry, but these guys are top 10 classes in the counrty ... to come in and perform inthe bottom 10% of the country is very hard to stomach.

    Our second team players would still be a top ten recruiting class.

    Something is wrong, and I can't just buy that a little tinkering here and there are going to turn us into a top ten team.

    I am a Buckeye. I will support this team till the day I die ....
    and the way it is going, this team may be the death of me ....
  9. Piney

    Piney Stay thirsty my friends Former Game Champion

    You added to another great point that begs this question. Does Tressel have his 2005 OLine out there? We have to remember that the current line is young, but it could get even younger next year. Remember the cupboard was left bare with OLine depth when Tressel got here so the 2002 class was the first in the transition. The 2003 class was slim in numbers only getting Barton. Now what will be interesting to see the freshman that are redshirting this year to see how many replace the current starters. We can see as many as 3 new starters all be redshirt freshman and maybe even a true freshman in the manchild Boone, especially if he enrolls early.
  10. Carmen Ohio

    Carmen Ohio Freshman

    The beauty of Ohio State football to me is it's pure no-gimmicks, leave nothing on the field drama. Like many of you, when I watch a game it is the focal point of the day and I concentrate on everything we're doing because, in following the words of one of our fight songs, if we don't win the game I wan't to know the reason why... there's a lot of peace in that and the fact that everybody still plays us like it's for the national championship.

    Philosophy aside, with this team we have to get away from the score for a little while and hope we can see progress. All the points I've seen from you guys so far are great. If the coaches can get Schlegel to read more and measure his attacks, it will make a world of difference on D. Daddyphatsacs is right on it...AJ is almost forced to pick up the slack there. I too have thought about what it would be like to have Hawk in the middle, but I agree that with reps in this defense, Schlegel will get there. We just have to take our lumps until he does. Oh8ch is all over it when he talks about the loss of so much experience on the line. They may not have been the greatest, but they were battle-ready. Mangold and Sims are good... I just don't see them as teachers. Barton is going to be special, Kne shows flashes and Datish needs work. It once again is an experience issue when it comes to in-game adjustments. Teams assume you're going to adjust to what they've done in one half or one series and adjust out of what they were doing. The criticism of coach Bollman is only valid if you know they're doing what he says to do. All we know is the result has been a disaster in the first three Big Ten games - this should be enough for them to learn something. Tall Indian is also right - a little tinkering is not going to right this team. It's going to come down to "hard work, preparation and learning from failure". The coaches should now have enough experience with our guys in clutch situations to start righting the ship.
  11. BuckBackHome

    BuckBackHome Wolverine is largest member of weasel family

    I was talking to a friend today who went to the MSU game over the weekend. He was talking about how MSU's offensive game plan was great, but he talked more about how the team has progressed this year. I hope to see the same from our team from here forward.
  12. Carmen Ohio

    Carmen Ohio Freshman

    That's a great case-in-point. After looking dreadful, I I think we're all fearful they might do some damage now that they've had some success. We'll get there!
  13. BuckBackHome

    BuckBackHome Wolverine is largest member of weasel family

    I have no doubt we will get there, maybe with the same coaching staff. It is just tough to wait through. We have become very spoiled the last couple of years.

    Thanks for the positive threads.
  14. buckeye27fan

    buckeye27fan Newbie

    Other issues

    I too agree with Carmen's analysis. However, I also see a compound problem between the D-line and the D-backs. The D-line can't seem to get any pressure (only 7 sacks by D-line, not sure if Iowa is included, I used tOSU's official stats), so the D-backs have to hold their coverage longer (hence more long passes against us than in recent memory). At the same time, the D-backs are giving up a lot of receptions (against only 5 ints), which doesn't give our D-line much time to put on pressure. I, for one, look at the bright side and hope that it is just inexperience vice lack of talent (especially as compared to what we had the last couple of years). Picking up from other threads though, I haven't seen a whole lot of progress and maturation from our younger players (Zwick in particular, who seems to lose more and more confidence and gets more skittish every week). JT still seems to support him, so I hope it's not a case of JZ looking over his shoulder at Smith, but who really knows? All I know is that I am a Buckeye for life, and we have suffered other bad seasons only to rebound. Maybe JT knows that this would be a bad year, but is battle-testing his troops for a push for the NC next year (I SAID I was looking at the bright side). That's my two cents for now.
  15. kippy1040

    kippy1040 Junior

    Yeah i also thought about the same thing that Buc27fan said about Tressel knowing his team was not ready and they are being "battle tested" right now to get them ready for the future. I like this thread and "Carmen" brought out so many valid points in his 1st post.

    This was one of the most positive threads I have read. I just wonder if "Carmen" is really Kirk Herbstriet in disquise. The way he posted in this thread, it made me think of how Kirk would discribe the " The STATE of Ohio State Football right about now.

    Kirk would have plenty to say about how we are playing, but no one would be able to hear that because he never has any thing really bad to say about OSU football. At least in my mind i have never heard it before.

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