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Who's the real national Champion LSU or USC

Discussion in 'College Football' started by Clarity, Jan 4, 2004.

  1. Clarity

    Clarity Will Bryant Staff Member

    Split title my ass...

    I know the BCS is flawed and unpopular, but it is at present the decided upon method of determining what two teams will play for the national championship. The media serves its own interests by blowing the "split" title controversy up as much as they possibly can. Gives them something to talk about. The bigger the fire, the better the story. The bigger the stink, the more interest generated.

    We're not going to see a playoff. Doesn't matter how much people want one. The best we can hope for is that the bowls play themselves out, and then there's the title game afterwards. But that *still* won't keep some teams from feeling left out. No matter what you do, or what system you invent, there are still going to be scenarios that create the kind of "me too" atmosphere USC, Pete Carroll and the media are brewing this year.

    The point of the BCS was to alleviate the dangers inherent to letting the media decide who the top team in college football is. But here we are, and that same media is trying to snatch the power back, and doing a decent job of it.

    It would be harder to make this argument were we the ones benefiting from their slackjawed gum flapping on tv, but I'd still feel a bit like "had we not lost a game, this wouldn't have been an issue. The opportunity was in our hands, and we didn't measure up."

    Last year OSU and Miami won all their games, played, and OSU was the consensus National Champion. This year, a handful of 1 loss teams sat at the top, the system the powers that be agreed upon selected OU and LSU for the title game, and LSU looks like it has that game wrapped up. (Edit: well, okay, now it's a one TD game with 11:00 left, but that doesn't change my point).

    Frankly, it's insulting to me that the media is trying to sell us on a split title. Such a thing shouldn't exist. The winner of the BCS title game *is* the national champion. If the BCS should have put USC in instead of either OU or LSU, then fine, fix it -- but not until after the season is over. Make your bed, sleep in it, and if you don't like something about it, fix it before you go to sleep the next night.

    So from where I'm sitting, the winner of this game *is* the national champion. If USC wanted it, they should have grabbed the all-important W against Cal, that would have given them a better argument. But then, so would have a stronger strength of schedule, and half a dozen other issues that didn't help them this year.

    I guess what I'm getting at is -- screw the media, and to hell with the Trojans.

    What's great, is that unlike USC, we've got an indisputable title from last year. A consensus championship that no other team can lay reasonable claim to. THAT's something to be proud of. One loss and a chance to say "hey, me too!" isn't something I'd take a lot away from.
     
  2. Hubbard

    Hubbard Administrator's Staff Member Bookie

    Great post! The point that stands out to me most is that the media is trying to get the power back, that's it in a nutshell.
    Heck yeah I will never root (sp?) for them again, I'm tired of hearing all this BCS non-sense. If USC would've scheduled anyone OOC then they would've been in this game plain and simple
     
  3. The KSB

    The KSB 4-4-11/11-5-11

    I'm not one to defend the Toejams, but they did schedule Auburn. Sure Auburn turned out to be a paper Tiger, but you can't fault SUC for that.

    edit:Screw USC, I still think they're a bunch of whiny Cane like Bitches.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2004
  4. Clarity

    Clarity Will Bryant Staff Member

    My favorite part of all of this, is that it just makes me appreciate our title season that much more. Seriously, our title is a shining beacon of light compared to the feces stained half-a-trophy Nick Saban is going to come away with tonight. The whole thing is tainted, and LSU can thank the talking heads in the media for that. I'd be pissed. After all, they (the Tigers) just beat THE GREATEST TEAM IN THE HISTORY OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL!!! Or so the media told me all year -- until there was more controversy in talking up USC.

    I think we should claim the title too. In fact, any time I see a USC fan doing the same, I think I'll present my claim...

    LSU beat Oklahoma, who lost to KSU, who we beat in our bowl. LSU lost earlier in the season to Florida, who lost to Iowa in their bowl, who we beat. Now Michigan beat us, but Iowa beat them, so since we beat the Hawkeyes, that's all a wash. So really, we only lost to Wisconsin. That's one loss, no worse than USC's loss to Cal. Now this is where it gets complicated... Cal, the team that toppled the mighty half-national-champion Trojans, was a 6 loss team. One of those losses was to to Oregon State, who was bested by Washington on October 18th. We mangled Washington, who beat Oregon State, who beat Cal, who beat USC. So we've got that on the Trojans. :roll1:

    --edit--
    KSB, I totally agree. I don't completely fault USC (can't spell "SUCk" without them!) for their schedule. They counted on Auburn and Notre Shame not sucking, and unfortunately, lost out on both accounts. That burns you sometimes despite your best efforts, which is just the nature of the game. Where USC went wrong was losing to Cal. Where they went right was being a media darling. These days, it's almost more important to be the team the media is talking up at the right time, than it is to be a real winner with the best claim relevant to the metrics being used.
     
  5. Hubbard

    Hubbard Administrator's Staff Member Bookie

    Man Clarity if you did all that off the top of your head.......
     
  6. Clarity

    Clarity Will Bryant Staff Member

    I did, so I'm checking it now worrying about getting one of my wins or losses wrong. Not that it matters really, the whole point is to illustrate that there have to be criteria set in stone each season to decide who plays for the national title. This year, that criteria determined OU and LSU were those two teams. If the powers that be want to make a correction so that in the future, USC wouldn't have been bumped out, then I hope they do that right after the season so that we have a new set of rock solid metrics for next year. Now don't misunderstand "concrete/rock solid/set in stone" only speaks to my belief that the metrics should NOT be tampered with once the season is underway. It doesn't suggest the BCS is without flaw, because it's not. But then, I submit again that NO system ever will be in this sport.

    I shudder at the thought of the media pulling off this little coup. They should *help* determine who the champion is, but they are way too schizophrenic for my taste to have direct control. Which is what they want. Because, they'd tell you, guys like Mark May, Dan Fouts and Terry Bowden *know* football. I'd agree that they do, I'd also point out that at least 2 of those three are ridiculously biased, and change their outlook each week, but never change how vehemently they are behind their claims no matter how often those shift. This year I heard "Oklahoma/Michigan/USC/etc is UNBEATABLE! They are WITHOUT A DOUBT the best team in college football!"

    --edit--
    :oh: THE REIGNING CONSENSUS NATIONAL CHAMPIONS! :io:
    (no one has taken that away from us yet. so even above and beyond my fake claim to a share of this year's title, the media has afforded us another year to enjoy being the only unified champion.)
     
  7. bucksnut68

    bucksnut68 Newbie

    14-0 and a national title by ourselves. Nuff said!!!!!




    GO BUCKS!!! :osu:
     
  8. buckeyebri

    buckeyebri Embrace the Hate

    I think that you are right the media is overblowing this. I think part of it has to do with USC being from LA, the second largest market in the U.S. If USC had gotten in and not Oklahoma, then I think the stench may have been less. Further, that since OU lost in their conference Championship they were not deserving of being in this game.

    There have been a couple takes, one by Fowler and one by Bowden that both said in essence that the BCS is what the schools committed too and that they should live by it.

    The game last night had me leaning towards a playoff though as neither team was impressive. I know that OSU, USC, and the ScUM's could have hung with either team.

    While were at it, we need to change how the Heisman is voted on. No way is Jason White even close to being the best player in college football. Also, Perry, Fitzgerald, and Sproles did nothing in bowl games to show that they were deserving....
     
  9. RAMdrvr1

    RAMdrvr1 All Galaxy '14 NCAA Pick'em Champ

    Having a dislike for both teams last night, but a passion
    for college fb, I decided to watch the game. When it was
    over, I came to two conclusions.
    1. Almost everyone in the Top 10 would have beaten both
    of those teams.
    2. I finally must admit that there is something wrong,
    something ssseeerriiiooouuussslllyyy wrong, with the way
    teams are choosen for the NC Title game. Despite the
    attempt to make it sound like an interesting game, I can't
    remember the last time I was so bored watching a college
    football game (ND was probably playing).
    As much as I dislike USC, I think they have a legit
    arguement for being #1. But, at least this year, so do a
    number of teams. :osu:
     
  10. The KSB

    The KSB 4-4-11/11-5-11

    I don't give a crap. It's a game, and an amature one at that (well semi-pro maybe). People in the media seem to be screeming about the injustice done to USC, that they weren't given the opportunity to go to the Sugar. BFD, I don't see why it's such a neccessity to "know" who the best team in cfb is. Is it really an injustice? Are rights being violated? I don't think so. What I don't think some people get is the fact that this game is dangerous. When you start putting these college players through a playoff system there are going to be injuries, career ending ones. Is it fair to them to be made to run the gauntlet three or four more times. What is there really to prove. Go to the LSU sites and see if they don't think they are the true national champs, then go to the USC sites and see what they think. Having another game isn't going to make either team's fans or players any prouder of their titles. Oh well, I'm off my soapbox time for :beer:
     
  11. RAMdrvr1

    RAMdrvr1 All Galaxy '14 NCAA Pick'em Champ

    If the Buckeyes had been the ones to play LSU ( or Okla.),
    had won the game, and had to share the NC with USC, then yes, I think that would have been an injustice. That
    is no different then how LSU feels now, and justifiably so.
    Every BCS team knew, before the start of the season,
    which bowl game would crown the NC. I think everyone
    should send a towel to the USC athletic department for
    them to dry all the tears, with a ink out earmarked for
    Pete Carroll.
    I know you were joking, right? :oh: :io:
     
  12. Woody1968

    Woody1968 Agent Provocateur

    I heard the ABC crew discussing how USC "dismantled" scUM. Since when did beating a team by two scores become a dismantling?

    Also, I tend to believe that White's hand injury was worse than we were led to believe.
     
  13. BrutusBobcat

    BrutusBobcat Icon and Entertainer

    The sad state of affairs in our society today is that he who cries the loudest gets the attention, and USC, their fans and media lackeys must have the dubious distinction of being the first school to cry their way into a share of the MNC. And yes, it is still "mythical" when we have a team (Southern Cal) who did not earn it by at least playing in a championship game.

    Somehow people bought into the notion last year that USC got "robbed" despite their losses. Maybe it's the pretty ballet-like football that they play, or the fact that over-rated Iowa pulled one of the worst bowl game swoon-jobs of a B10 school in recent memory, but the myth persisted.

    IMO, the fact that some sportswriters and broadcasters bought into that nonsense just shows how biased and arbitrary the human polls are. Certainly the individual computer polls have their flaws (NYT is the worst, I believe) but on average they are probably less flawed than the human vote.

    That bias carried over this year, where the computers felt no "moral" urge to "right last year's wrong", but the human voters did. Make no mistake -- people were rewarding USC for LAST YEAR'S play as well as this year's. Just like the Heisman voters did with Jason White (which was also nonsense. Give him a "comeback player of the year award" or do a Hallmark movie about him, but give the Heisman to the BEST PLAYER.) they voted on sentiment not fact.

    USC may or may not be the best team in the country, but is it a fact that they did not prove it. To be slightly generous to the Men of Latex, they also didn't get the chance due to their weak schedule. Either way, they should not share a championship. Let's crown a team that earns it through blood and sweat, not tears.
     
  14. ashlandbuck

    ashlandbuck Banned

    I have to say that I think USC is the better team and I do feel for them a bit.
    I think the bowl results were proof that the Big 12 was really a weak conference. After watching Oklahoma, Kansas state, Texas, oklahoma state, and Kansas all go down to defeat I have to question if Oklahoma really deserved to be in the national title game. No matter what position you take in this controversy it comes down to a system that is flawed. The best thing the NCAA could do is limit the season to ten or eleven games and then have a 8 team playoff. Of course there will be controversy over the 9th and 10th teams that were left out but it would be hard for them to argue and say they had a legitimate shot at winning three straight games against the top 3 or four teams in the country.
    I don't blame USC at all for saying that they are the National champs. If we Buckeyes were in their shoes we wouldn't simply go away and agree that the LSU vs. OU game was THE national championship game.
    I agree with the ABC crew. The Michigan vs. USC game was a dismantling. The points didn't exactly reflect the one sided affair.
    I think you will see a play off system in the near future. With the remaining 20 teams playing in bowl games. I think the revenue and interest it would produce will be too great for the NCAA to continue to ignore. I believe they'll find that under a play off system the interest in college football would grow and the money that would be paid out for the right to cover these games would far exceed what is paid now.
    I simply think it's wise for the NCAA to begin looking at all the possibilities. It would be benificial to everyone.
     
  15. Clarity

    Clarity Will Bryant Staff Member

    Surely you're not saying USC is the better team than LSU? That might be arguable, most everything is, but it's certainly not simple fact. To be completely honest, I think LSU would put a nastier hurting on USC than they did on Oklahoma.

    The Trojans played a weak schedule (not their fault, but it's a reality), they lost to a nobody -- I don't care how strong they came on at the end, they're no more deserving of the title than LSU is. I might argue less given the BCS is the system that was put in place to determine a champ, and the BCS decided USC wasn't going to get a shot. Technically speaking, two championships were rewarded this year. The BCS national championship with the all-important crystal trophy, and the media's mythical national championship.

    What's funny to me is Oregon had a claim when Nebraska went, but they weren't championed by the media the way USC was. We had a better claim when FSU went, and there wasn't so much as a peep from the press. That was, by the way, when we went away and didn't make a stink about deserving a share after taking aTm apart in our bowl.

    USC is a media darling, that's all this situation is. Now the media wants us to be in an uproar about change to the BCS. lol, I'll pass. They'll tweak it a bit more, and we'll move on. But I doubt we've heard the last of the "poor Trojans" who choke as well as we did in the 90s, but still get spoonfed opportunities.

    Any USC fan who wants to try and convince me that their title is the same as our title, will just get laughter in return.
     

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