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Zone vs. man to man

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Didn't read thru the whole game thread, but I am sure someone mentioned it, but just thought it would be good in this thread as well...

We actually went to man a couple possessions down the stretch...

But when Mullens did not hedge the pick n roll and the Illinois guy went right to the hoop for an easy layup with about 1 minute left, I immediately thought of this thread, and the reason why we don't play man...

And also one possession stands out in my head from the game, when Illinois had a shot clock violation, and Raferty was stuck on us being in man to man, but we were not at all, we were still in the zone, but we rotated so well, and played the man great that we looked like we were in man...That is what the zone is designed to do and look like, but we can't seem to get it down...
 
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crazybuckfan40 said:
Didn't read thru the whole game thread, but I am sure someone mentioned it, but just thought it would be good in this thread as well...

We actually went to man a couple possessions down the stretch...

But when Mullens did not hedge the pick n roll and the Illinois guy went right to the hoop for an easy layup with about 1 minute left, I immediately thought of this thread, and the reason why we don't play man...

And also one possession stands out in my head from the game, when Illinois had a shot clock violation, and Raferty was stuck on us being in man to man, but we were not at all, we were still in the zone, but we rotated so well, and played the man great that we looked like we were in man...That is what the zone is designed to do and look like, but we can't seem to get it down...
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Meachem hit a 3 from the corner when OSU went man out of a timeout , I think around the 5 minute mark.

So yeah, I don't know. :confused:

I guess it pretty much comes down to execution, no matter what the call is.
 
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Shortly after Matta was hired, I was lucky enough to overhear a conversation between Matta and the locals in a barbershop. It went like this.

Reverend Doty: "We trust that you're a fine, upstanding God-fearing man with Christian morals and principals who will set an example and a standard of leadership for our boys.... Tell me, do you believe in man to man or a zone defense?"

Matta laughs, thinking this is all a big joke, but everyone in the barbershop is dead serious.

George: "Zone defense is all we've played in the past, and it's the only thing'll work this year."


So there you have it, the reason why Matta only plays zone defense.
 
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JohnnyCockfight;1415449; said:
Shortly after Matta was hired, I was lucky enough to overhear a conversation between Matta and the locals in a barbershop. It went like this.

Reverend Doty: "We trust that you're a fine, upstanding God-fearing man with Christian morals and principals who will set an example and a standard of leadership for our boys.... Tell me, do you believe in man to man or a zone defense?"

Matta laughs, thinking this is all a big joke, but everyone in the barbershop is dead serious.

George: "Zone defense is all we've played in the past, and it's the only thing'll work this year."


So there you have it, the reason why Matta only plays zone defense.
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Thats odd because he played only man until last year...:tongue2:
 
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I posted this after the NW'ern game.

BB73;1412480; said:
I'm willing to admit that Thad Matta is much more qualified than I am in figuring out which defense to play.

Although I will admit to wondering how a triangle-and-2 would have worked in the second half last night. :tongue2:
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Hmmm, I'm assuming it wasn't because Matta read this thread.

cleveland.com

Hill plays much tighter defense than Simmons, and when he started off harassing Talor Battle, the Big Ten's leading scorer, in a triangle-and-two defense, he was obviously the man for the job.
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BB73;1416879; said:
I posted this after the NW'ern game.



Hmmm, I'm assuming it wasn't because Matta read this thread.

cleveland.com
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Yeah, if you could recognize a triangle-and-2 when you saw it.

From early in the PSU game thread....

BB73;1416428; said:
Man-to-man defense forces a 35-second shot violation. hmmmm.
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:biggrin:
 
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Bucky Katt;1418441; said:
Yeah, if you could recognize a triangle-and-2 when you saw it.

From early in the PSU game thread....



:biggrin:
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Well, it looked like a man-to-man on that possession. DeChellis didn't figure it out until it was at least 10-2. :tongue2:

Good work finding that post. Fuckin' Internet.
 
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I think Matta has played more zone the past two years due to the personnel changeover and inexperience and this year especially, the short bench.

That said, a change-up would be nice AND would probably slow down some of these offenses that seem to be completely content to pass the ball around the perimeter for 25 seconds a possession before actually trying to score....

But it DOES work most of the time.
 
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My problem with the zone is simple: When its not working (Northwestern), you have to switch it up. Both NW and Illinois were well coached to be patient against the zone. Bruce Weber's boys literally passed more times on offense than they dribble. They just waited for the zone to break down, for a guy to pop open on the perimeter or on the elbow, found that guy and they shot lights out.

Jim O'Brien was a master as switching up his defenses to confuse the other team. Thad Matta clearly is not.

Nonetheless, I don't really think the scheme makes a difference at this point. This team is not prepared to play any other type of defense. When, at times, they've switched, they looked lost and it was actually worse than the zone. Believe it or not, it is a matter of coaching... and Thad simply has not taught these guys well enough this year how to play defense. It doesn't matter the scheme. They are simply too young and undisciplined.
 
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OH10;1419088; said:
My problem with the zone is simple: When its not working (Northwestern), you have to switch it up. Both NW and Illinois were well coached to be patient against the zone. Bruce Weber's boys literally passed more times on offense than they dribble. They just waited for the zone to break down, for a guy to pop open on the perimeter or on the elbow, found that guy and they shot lights out.

Jim O'Brien was a master as switching up his defenses to confuse the other team. Thad Matta clearly is not.

Nonetheless, I don't really think the scheme makes a difference at this point. This team is not prepared to play any other type of defense. When, at times, they've switched, they looked lost and it was actually worse than the zone. Believe it or not, it is a matter of coaching... and Thad simply has not taught these guys well enough this year how to play defense. It doesn't matter the scheme. They are simply too young and undisciplined.
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We switched up today and it did nothing...

I have figured it out...The reason this team is not that good at either defense, is the fact they don't have the ability to pressure the ball, and teams make easy passes all over the court...It was almost laughable how many times the announcer said Purdue was just passing the ball around because they knew they would eventually find a good look...
 
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crazybuckfan40;1419535; said:
We switched up today and it did nothing...

I have figured it out...The reason this team is not that good at either defense, is the fact they don't have the ability to pressure the ball, and teams make easy passes all over the court...It was almost laughable how many times the announcer said Purdue was just passing the ball around because they knew they would eventually find a good look...
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I'm not completely buying. Look at an unathletic starting 5 at Duke(bench players as well), and the pressure they put on the ball.....I know the first argument is the points they give up, but Duke also lights the score-board up offensively and gives opposing teams a lot of possesions.

Duke continually pressures the ball, conests passing lanes, and plays an aggressive defense, with the same amount of athletic talent we have if not less a lot of the time.

There is just zero reason to me that a line-up of Mulens, Lauderdale, Turner, Diebler, and Hill shoudln't be able to clamp up. It is insulting to think otherwise.....I'm just not sure as to why we don;t do it occasionally, and why some think it is impossible.
 
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Syracuse plays primarily zone and has for years. This season, they are in the top 10 in every rebounding category AND they score 80 points per game on offense. Apparently, the zone doesn't prevent them from rebounding despite giving their opponents more possessions by scoring 80 points themselves.

It's not enough to say "zone versus man to man" as though the choice of defensive scheme is simply the problem. We don't score consistently enough on offense - brings back the 55-50 loss I mentioned earlier this thread - and we don't box out well enough on the defensive end. Those issues will create problems regardless of scheme, barring improvement.

Improving our assist to turnover ratio wouldn't hurt, either.
 
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