Free Trade

[Basebuck]

so the countrys who have tighter restrictions on trade do better? im not following. maybe a more through explanation would be interesting...

Shouldn't have posted such a simple statement. I'll edit and expand later when I have time. My apologies as this probably should have went on a different board.
EDIT
After reading Buckeyesoldier's post, he has a similar stance as I do.

 

[Basebuck]

interesting, for conversation point. would you then be willing to pay $20 for a hanes t shirt? a couple of extra hundred for a tv, more for food, milk, eggs, fruits, vegetables etc?

This is where we differ in opinion. The problem with the quoted scenario is that the man who is asked to pay $10.00 right now for the shirt doesn't have a job.It's irrelevant whether or not the shirt costs $10 or $20.

 

[Taosman]

Isn't the United States the only country with Free Trade? I'll have to research this a bit. But, for now it looks like a case where we are the suckers in all this. :(

http://www.americaneconomicalert.org/view_art.asp?Prod_ID=802

 

[Taosman]

from the Economic Policy Institute

U.S.-China trade gap: Massive job losses for U.S. workers
Between 2001 and 2007, 2.3 million American jobs were lost due to the China trade gap, including 366,000 last year. As a result of the trade deficit, every state lost good-paying jobs, and lost wages surpassed $19 million in 2007. As the nation's economic woes mount, a new EPI briefing paper, The China Trade Toll, details the devastating impact that the growing U.S. trade deficit with China is having on American jobs, wages, and key industries.
(Press release [PDF])


Trade and Globalization | EPI

 

[Taosman]

A paper from economist, Josh Bivens.
Trade, jobs, and wages

 

[Basebuck]

sure the american three cant compete but the "foreign" companies have no problems competing and making their cars in the us.

I think this statement is taking us down the union path and the damages that old union philosophies have caused the Big 3 this decade. Which brings us back around to ..

who it hurts is people who are unwilling to adapt

Many of the people losing their jobs are not given the decision to adapt. They are failing to keep their jobs because they are grouped with those unwilling to work. Why would I pay someone a Union mandated $40.00 hour to do very little work and not be able to terminate them when I can go to Japan and hire someone in at $2.00 per/hour to work twice as hard because their job is always threatened? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

For those crying about the loss of jobs, we had the lowest unemployment rate among all the industrialized nations before this financial crisis. Maybe you should go to europe and check out what it's like to live with a perpetual 10% unemployment rate.

Also, the notion that we are losing jobs to cheaper labor elsewhere is invalid in the sense that no one was occupying those jobs in the first place. For example, I don't know anyone in the states who are still working in GAP plants making $10 t-shirts.

Lastly, I just want to stress that the supply chain has become much more global. We are no longer self-reliant in terms of getting the raw material that we need to product the finished good. It's got to go through a global network of supply chains and process centers. Which lead to my next point about the global marketplace. We need it in order to expand.

Look, there are always going to be people unemployed. But the beauty of America is that jobs are plentiful but cheap, whereas in Europe, jobs are scarce but wages are high. For those of you on payroll who are complaining about $10 tshirts, if you got such a big problem with it then buy the one for $25. It's really that simple.

 

[Basebuck]

For those crying about the loss of jobs, we had the lowest unemployment rate among all the industrialized nations before this financial crisis.

And what about 10 years prior to this recent downturn? Have we dropped substancially prior to that?

Also, the notion that we are losing jobs to cheaper labor elsewhere is invalid in the sense that no one was occupying those jobs in the first place. For example, I don't know anyone in the states who are still working in GAP plants making $10 t-shirts.

Do you honestly believe that middle class jobs held by Americans over the last several decades are not being outsourced?

Look, there are always going to be people unemployed. But the beauty of America is that jobs are plentiful but cheap, whereas in Europe, jobs are scarce but wages are high.

That's the real question. Why are wages so low here? They are low enough where it doesn't make sense for people to work when they get state/federal aid. To me, that's the real loss in Free Trade. Elimnating the middle class.

It's really that simple.

I don't agree. I cannot imagine a more complex current issue

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

And what about 10 years prior to this recent downturn? Have we dropped substancially prior to that?

I'm not aware of any drops in employment rates in the last ten years. Our unemployment rate had been persistently under 5%, which again, is among the lowest anywhere in the world. That's something you'll have to find a good response for if you are going to argue about the loss of jobs.

Do you honestly believe that middle class jobs held by Americans over the last several decades are not being outsourced?

Again, whose jobs? The jobs of the textile assembly workers?

That's the real question. Why are wages so low here? They are low enough where it doesn't make sense for people to work when they get state/federal aid. To me, that's the real loss in Free Trade. Elimnating the middle class.

Wages are low? Since when did wages become so low? Aren't we one of the richest industrialized nations in the world? Find me the countries where you think wages are high.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

evolution of our workforce in the manufacturing sector as it was explained to me.

cobbler>general store makes own shoes>small town shoe factory>big city shoe factory in state>oos factory in cheaper area>moved to another na country(mexico)>moved overseas>next is another lcr. where is that Low Cost Region, who knows. it will happen. it has been happening since the beginning of industrialization.

its the same for machinery, tools, shoes, clothes, etc. we cannot be static.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

Alright, hopefully I don't get dinged for this , this is something I found on free trade on the web. It's a tv series hosted by Milton Friedman. Check out the 2nd volume.

Free to Choose

and oh btw, [censored] Michigan!
:osu: