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Notre Dame (football only discussion)

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NFBuck said:
ND is one of the biggest jobs in CFB. They will never again be on the level of the Bammers and tOSUs and Clemsons, etc...but that remains the expectation. Every HC there stands in the shadows of Rockne, Leahy, Parseghian and Holtz and those are the expectations. Expecting a guy to jump in with zero experience leading a program, let alone one with those kind of expectations is crazy. Look at the last 3 first time HCs they've hired:

Weis: Actually fared reasonably well his first 2 seasons after inheriting a decent amount of talent and installing an NFL system. As his players began overtaking the roster, they fell off a cliff. Lasted 5 years, going 35-27 (19-6 his first 2).

Davie: Took over a program that was declining in Holtz's last few years. Was inconsistent, going 7-6, 9-3, 5-7, 9-3 and 5-6. Ended up 35-25 in 5 seasons.

Faust: This one was a head scratcher. Faust had never coached at the college level. He was a Cincinnati HS legend at Moeller. ND figured that would translate to college. It did not. Went 35-26-1 over 5 seasons and never finished better than 7-5. His teams were regularly crushed by name programs, most infamously by Jimmy Johnson's Hurricanes in his last game.

Interestingly, all 5 of those guys got exactly 5 seasons and finished with very similar records. Weis and Davie had extensive careers as assistants. Moeller never coached in college, but did have 19 years as a HC in HS. All 3 were overwhelmed. Marcus has 10 years as an assistant. He has his work cut out for him.
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I just wonder if that same type of mediocrity will be tolerated by Freeman...
 
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pnuts34 said:
I just wonder if that same type of mediocrity will be tolerated by Freeman...
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I don't know that Weis "tolerated" mediocrity. Or Faust, or Davie. Sometimes you're just in over your head. Maybe Freeman breaks the cycle, but given the history of coaches in South Bend, he has an uphill climb. Kelly probably maxed out ND's modern-day capabilities but he entered the job with 19 years as a HC and a track record of success in the position across multiple levels of CFB. If I was calling the shots at ND, no prior HC experience would be a non-starter for me.
 
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NFBuck said:
I don't know that Weis "tolerated" mediocrity. Or Faust, or Davie. Sometimes you're just in over your head. Maybe Freeman breaks the cycle, but given the history of coaches in South Bend, he has an uphill climb. Kelly probably maxed out ND's modern-day capabilities but he entered the job with 19 years as a HC and a track record of success in the position across multiple levels of CFB. If I was calling the shots at ND, no prior HC experience would be a non-starter for me.
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I'm saying, do the ND fans and Admin tolerate a mediocre record like they did those previous HCs
 
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pnuts34 said:
I'm saying, do the ND fans and Admin tolerate a mediocre record like they did those previous HCs
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The key for a ND coach is to show a glimpse of initial success, and then they will back up a Brinks truck full of gold to your garage. Aren't they still paying off Fat Bastard? They let Kelly literally kill a kid. If MF can get them to the playoffs by year two, he'll be golden for a decade.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
The key for a ND coach is to show a glimpse of initial success, and then they will back up a Brinks truck full of gold to your garage. Aren't they still paying off Fat Bastard? They let Kelly literally kill a kid. If MF can get them to the playoffs by year two, he'll be golden for a decade.
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But this is false because Willingham had 10 wins in his 1st season, and like I previously stated: he was the 1st, 1st year ND HC to do so. And he did worse in his 2nd year. Yet Weis was given a 10yr in extension after 7gms...
My point is, if he gets to the CFP in year 2, but regresses in year 3 and 4, will they let him get that 5th year? Because they didn't give Willingham that same grace
 
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pnuts34 said:
But this is false because Willingham had 10 wins in his 1st season, and like I previously stated: he was the 1st, 1st year ND HC to do so. And he did worse in his 2nd year. Yet Weis was given a 10yr in extension after 7gms...
My point is, if he gets to the CFP in year 2, but regresses in year 3 and 4, will they let him get that 5th year? Because they didn't give Willingham that same grace
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But did Willingham have a schematic advantage?
 
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pnuts34 said:
But this is false because Willingham had 10 wins in his 1st season, and like I previously stated: he was the 1st, 1st year ND HC to do so. And he did worse in his 2nd year. Yet Weis was given a 10yr in extension after 7gms...
My point is, if he gets to the CFP in year 2, but regresses in year 3 and 4, will they let him get that 5th year? Because they didn't give Willingham that same grace
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I'm sure it was the restauranteurs in the South Bend Commerce Association pushing for that extension for Weis...
 
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pnuts34 said:
But this is false because Willingham had 10 wins in his 1st season, and like I previously stated: he was the 1st, 1st year ND HC to do so. And he did worse in his 2nd year. Yet Weis was given a 10yr in extension after 7gms...
My point is, if he gets to the CFP in year 2, but regresses in year 3 and 4, will they let him get that 5th year? Because they didn't give Willingham that same grace
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Man, the optics of the only two coaches who don't get the full five years being black is pretty bad. Not even Notre Dame is smug and arrogant enough as to think there won't be a hellstorm of bad PR over that. Particularly since they let Weis have five years despite it being glaringly obvious after year 3 that he was a train wreck. I'm guessing that if he gets to the playoffs in the first two years, he gets the giant extension, and then even if the wheels fall off, like with Weis, he'll get to stay for five.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
Aren't they still paying off Fat Bastard?
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No, the buyout payments ended in 2015, but the total bill from 2009 to 2015 was $19 million. In fact, once Fat Bastard got fired by Kansas in 2014, he was paid $7.68 million in 2015 between two schools to not coach.

IIRC, Notre Dame's failure was that the lawyers didn't include language in the buyout for any stipulation of an offset or void if Weis took another job. His buyout was guaranteed.

This is why Tom Herman is now an analyst for the Bears. If he takes an on-field role, he'll forfeit around $10 million from Texas.
 
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Dryden said:
No, the buyout payments ended in 2015, but the total bill from 2009 to 2015 was $19 million. In fact, once Fat Bastard got fired by Kansas in 2014, he was paid $7.68 million in 2015 between two schools to not coach.

IIRC, Notre Dame's failure was that the lawyers didn't include language in the buyout for any stipulation of an offset or void if Weis took another job. His buyout was guaranteed.

This is why Tom Herman is now an analyst for the Bears. If he takes an on-field role, he'll forfeit around $10 million from Texas.
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Mensa in action.
 
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