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Referees control the game

It's not whining to point out that a player was called for a personal foul without fucking touching anyone. That screams fix to me. I'd imagine NBA refs are paid more than college refs. NBA refs have fixed games. That's not up for debate.

When there are billions of dollars at stake, people will lie, cheat and steal to get a piece.
 
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BUCKYLE;2324209; said:
It's not whining to point out that a player was called for a personal foul without [censored]ing touching anyone. That screams fix to me. I'd imagine NBA refs are paid more than college refs. NBA refs have fixed games. That's not up for debate.

When there are billions of dollars at stake, people will lie, cheat and steal to get a piece.

I certainly don't think any of the OSU games were fixed in the tournament. In fact, until the Louisville vs Duke game, the Arizona - Ohio State game was the highest rated game in the tournament. The NCAA and CBS were largely pulling for OSU to make the comeback against Wichita State, I'm sure.

But if you go and watch that technical Miller picked up in the Pac 12 tournament, it's scary. The funny thing in the article is that Larry Scott is quoted as saying "other officials were in the room, but it was said in gest". Ummmm......? Larry, an actual technical on a horrible call were levied. I'm not sure how he can make that statement with a serious face?

It just immediately makes me think of the NBA and the Kings-Lakers series from years ago. Probably the most blatant game fixing ever seen in the United States, and largely confirmed by a former NBA official who was arrested for gambling. It's why there is no such thing as a slam-dunk bet in Vegas...you never know who is on the take. It's scary...
 
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billmac91;2324067; said:
It's not even the Wichita State game...it was throughout the tournament. I decided to pull Big 10 tourney stats vs. the NCAA tournament for comparison sake:

Wichita State - We had 22 total fouls, Aaron Craft ended up with 4
Arizona - We had 18 total fouls, Craft had 4
Iowa State - We had 20 total fouls, Craft had 3
Iona - We had 17 total fouls, Craft had 1

In the Big 10 tournament:
In title game against Wisky we had 12 total fouls, Craft had zero
Against MSU, we had 11 total fouls, Craft had zero
Against Nebraska we had 11 total fouls, Craft had 3

We averaged around 12 total fouls in Big 10 play throughout the season. We averaged around 19 in the NCAA tournament. Not only do those fouls equate to free-throws, but it forces guys in foul trouble to play less aggressive defense.

I think what we have to be careful of is expecting the NCAA to move towards Big 10 style of play. We can complain about the lack of physicality we are forced to play with, but nationally, that's how other conferences are refereered. If the Big 10 wants to get serious about having success in March, they'll start calling games in a more similar manner aas other BCS conferences.

It's frustrating to watch Craft get nickel and dimers on what we consider good hard defense but it is what it is. Lenzelle Smith picked up 2 horrible fouls, IMO, on bumping cutters against ISU. Would never be called in Big 10 play.

It's why I also believe Michigan has had the most success in the tournament. They haven't had to adjust their style of play at all because they don't play typical Big 10 defense. On the other end of spectrum, the tightly called games really free up their wings and Trey Burke on the perimeter. Burke must be loving life with how these games are called.....I posted this in the Michigan/UF game thread:

Teams just need to learn how to adjust. Teams have to recognize the flow of the game and play accordingly. Another thing to do is take advantage of it of the situation.

I was very curious about the Buckeye free throw attempts between the Big Ten tournament and the NCAA tournament. The Buckeyes attempted 38 free throws in 3 games which is 12.67 attempts per game. In four games in the NCAA tournament the Buckeyes attempted 106 free throws which is 26.5 attempts a game. That is over 100% difference which is insane. The free throws was actually what got the Buckeyes back in the game. Thomas even got a few favorable calls when he was posting up. I told myself they just need to throw the ball into him every play, bump a guy, and go to the free throw line. Teams have to take advantage if the refs call a tight game. Stop shooting jumpers and take it to the hole.

Another thing that was interesting was the whole South region. Michigan's success really has nothing to do with the refs. They beat down 3 teams and got hot/lucky against Kansas. They didn't call Michigan's games tight at all.

2nd round fouls- Michigan -8 South Dakota St -10
3rd round fouls- Michigan -7 VCU- 14 (with the havoc defense)
Sweet 16- Michigan -12 Kansas-17
Elite 8- Michigan -13 Florida -11

A lot of those games they didn't call moving screens, McGary laying wood on people, calling cheap fouls for cuts under the basket,etc. Michigan was up 87-85 when McGary got the rebound on their last position and was slapped on the hand by Withey before the shot clock expired.. They didn't call it and I'm glad they didn't because it was a ticky tacky. Michigan only shot 50 free throws in their 4 games which is 12.5 a game. Michigan's opponents only shot 41 free throws. Kansas only had 10 free throw attempts against Michigan. In all 4 games nobody on both teams was ever really in foul trouble. Florida and Kansas are well known for their defense and play aggressively. The refs let Michigan and Kansas play. They were bumping each other and didn't call fouls for flops. That was one of the best officiated games I have seen. Neither team was really in foul trouble during the game.
 
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http://college-basketball.si.com/2013/04/01/ed-rush-pac-12-dismissal/?sct=hp_t2_a6&eref=sihp

PAC-12 officials targeted Miller during Pac-12 tournament. :shake:

*edit* already covered on the previous page. This is just laughable. I love college basketball, but the officiating is making it borderline unwatchable. It's not just tOSU games. Every single game I watched was horribly officiated. As such, I'm not even tuning into any more games. I'm not sure I'd say it's refs trying to sway the outcome of the game...I think it's just plain incompetence.
 
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zwem;2324241; said:
I was very curious about the Buckeye free throw attempts between the Big Ten tournament and the NCAA tournament. The Buckeyes attempted 38 free throws in 3 games which is 12.67 attempts per game. In four games in the NCAA tournament the Buckeyes attempted 106 free throws which is 26.5 attempts a game. That is over 100% difference which is insane. The free throws was actually what got the Buckeyes back in the game. Thomas even got a few favorable calls when he was posting up. I told myself they just need to throw the ball into him every play, bump a guy, and go to the free throw line. Teams have to take advantage if the refs call a tight game. Stop shooting jumpers and take it to the hole.

Another thing that was interesting was the whole South region. Michigan's success really has nothing to do with the refs. They beat down 3 teams and got hot/lucky against Kansas. They didn't call Michigan's games tight at all.

TSUN fan arrives, claiming that OSU was only in the Wichita State game due to officiating, but TSUN's success in the tournament has nothing to do with officiating. Color me shocked. :roll2:
 
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zwem;2324241; said:
Teams just need to learn how to adjust. Teams have to recognize the flow of the game and play accordingly. Another thing to do is take advantage of it of the situation.

I was very curious about the Buckeye free throw attempts between the Big Ten tournament and the NCAA tournament. The Buckeyes attempted 38 free throws in 3 games which is 12.67 attempts per game. In four games in the NCAA tournament the Buckeyes attempted 106 free throws which is 26.5 attempts a game. That is over 100% difference which is insane. The free throws was actually what got the Buckeyes back in the game. Thomas even got a few favorable calls when he was posting up. I told myself they just need to throw the ball into him every play, bump a guy, and go to the free throw line. Teams have to take advantage if the refs call a tight game. Stop shooting jumpers and take it to the hole.

Another thing that was interesting was the whole South region. Michigan's success really has nothing to do with the refs. They beat down 3 teams and got hot/lucky against Kansas. They didn't call Michigan's games tight at all.

2nd round fouls- Michigan -8 South Dakota St -10
3rd round fouls- Michigan -7 VCU- 14 (with the havoc defense)
Sweet 16- Michigan -12 Kansas-17
Elite 8- Michigan -13 Florida -11

A lot of those games they didn't call moving screens, McGary laying wood on people, calling cheap fouls for cuts under the basket,etc. Michigan was up 87-85 when McGary got the rebound on their last position and was slapped on the hand by Withey before the shot clock expired.. They didn't call it and I'm glad they didn't because it was a ticky tacky. Michigan only shot 50 free throws in their 4 games which is 12.5 a game. Michigan's opponents only shot 41 free throws. Kansas only had 10 free throw attempts against Michigan. In all 4 games nobody on both teams was ever really in foul trouble. Florida and Kansas are well known for their defense and play aggressively. The refs let Michigan and Kansas play. They were bumping each other and didn't call fouls for flops. That was one of the best officiated games I have seen. Neither team was really in foul trouble during the game.

You're actually proving my point in your post. Michigans foul totals are right at their average in the Big 10. MSU and OSU's fouls went up dramatically in the tournament. So, the question is why?

Well, Michigan averaged the fewest fouls in the Big 10 because they aren't physical at all and play more like an ACC or PAC 12 school. OSU and MSU play physical man defense, with bumps, grabs, and in your jock pressure from Craft and Shannon Scott on the primary ball-handler. As such, their foul totals increased almost 2-fold.

Again, Big 10 Tourney:
Nebraska, Craft had 3 fouls
Michigan State, Craft had 0 fouls
Wisconsin, Craft had 0 fouls

NCAA Tourney:
Iona, Craft had 1 foul
Iowa State, Craft had 4 fouls
Arizona, Craft had 4 fouls
Wichita State, Craft had 4 fouls

Team fouls were as bad....we averaged around 13 fouls a game in Big 10 play, while we averaged close to 20 in the tournament.

Ohio State is used to playing physical games that are allowed both ways. A free-throw contest doesn't work in the favor of the Buckeyes. They're not a great free-throw team, and as Izzo said against Duke, it's impossible to get any sort of a rhythm when the whistle is blown every possession.

And by the way, Florida plays a lot of zone and utilizes a full court press. Comparing Florida's defense and a school like MSU or OSU is apples to oranges. Teams that run zone play with a completely different type of aggressiveness. I'm not saying it is any more or less physical, but you aren't going to see Florida grab or bump a guy coming off a screen, because teams don't set baseline screens against a zone. Florida, like Louisville, may get tough calls once a trap is set, or trying to slap a ball out of a players hands in the press, but it isn't anything close to what the Buckeyes and MSU like to do in a half-court man-to-man game.

And the last thing I'd submit is Kansas's defense is not that good this year. They had an eraser in Jeff Withey that cleaned up a ton of mistakes. More power to them, but their perimeter defEnders looked more like Michigan's than an Ohio State or an MSU. But Kansas's wings gave up penetration all year, to be bailed out by 7'1'' defensive minded center.
 
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buckeyesin07;2324287; said:
TSUN fan arrives, claiming that OSU was only in the Wichita State game due to officiating, but TSUN's success in the tournament has nothing to do with officiating. Color me shocked. :roll2:

Michigan fan comes to Ohio State board thinking he's going to successfully troll; inadvertantly proves the point the of the thread.
 
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NFBuck;2324282; said:
http://college-basketball.si.com/2013/04/01/ed-rush-pac-12-dismissal/?sct=hp_t2_a6&eref=sihp

PAC-12 officials targeted Miller during Pac-12 tournament. :shake:

*edit* already covered on the previous page. This is just laughable. I love college basketball, but the officiating is making it borderline unwatchable. It's not just tOSU games. Every single game I watched was horribly officiated. As such, I'm not even tuning into any more games. I'm not sure I'd say it's refs trying to sway the outcome of the game...I think it's just plain incompetence.

This is where I am at...I don't watch a game to watch refs blow the whistle. Fucking let them play. I realize calls went both way against Wichita State and we lost the game ourselves, but the refs essentially added a new rule: You can't play defense. The fouls called on Craft were baffling (a few others too) and completely changed the way we had to play defense, aka we basically quit contesting much of anything. Basketball continues to trend towards every other sport in taking out every element of physicality in favor of seeing more points scored, and it is pissing me off.
 
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DZ83CK;2324529; said:
I don't know what I dislike more, the Big Ten style where there are too few fouls or the NCAA tourney style where almost anything is a foul.

That's not even a question to me.. I'll take B1G style officiating, in all its inconsistent glory, every day over what we saw this year in the dance.

Maybe it's just my IMO, but free throws are fucking boring. I don't want to watch a game where half the points are from the foul line. Basketball fouls are so idiotically subjective that I'd prefer them to be called as rarely as possible. The last 3 minutes of any close game drags on way too long for my liking- I'd prefer the entire game to be quick, high speed, high intensity, high physicality, with minimal interruption. That's what's exciting about basketball, and sports in general, at least to me.

But alas, we'll probably never see that in the game of basketball. We just have to wait for September at The Shoe. :oh:
 
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RB07OSU;2324524[B said:
;]This is where I am at...I don't watch a game to watch refs blow the whistle. Fucking let them play[/B]. I realize calls went both way against Wichita State and we lost the game ourselves, but the refs essentially added a new rule: You can't play defense. The fouls called on Craft were baffling (a few others too) and completely changed the way we had to play defense, aka we basically quit contesting much of anything. Basketball continues to trend towards every other sport in taking out every element of physicality in favor of seeing more points scored, and it is pissing me off.

this this this all fucking day long. im pissed off as well!
 
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BUCKYLE;2324209; said:
It's not whining to point out that a player was called for a personal foul without fucking touching anyone. That screams fix to me. I'd imagine NBA refs are paid more than college refs. NBA refs have fixed games. That's not up for debate.

When there are billions of dollars at stake, people will lie, cheat and steal to get a piece.

Of course there have been refs involved in fixing games. I don't see anyone debating that issue.

But the sudden posts/threads about how OSU games are officiated negatively popping up right after our team, frankly, plays a bad game in a big spot damn sure comes off as whining. If it makes some feel better, have at it, but let's not pretend it isn't being driven by the obvious motivation.
 
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This isn't just a Big Ten issue. I've been saying for years Pitt gets away with absolute murder during Big East play....and then always gets into foul trouble in the tournament and they get bounced early.

I wish I had remembered that before I picked them to beat WS.
 
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Tim Donaghy was on Bull and Fox (92.3 The Fan) a couple of days ago talking about Rush, refs affecting outcomes of games, and Major D1 program point shaving. Here is a brief write-up synopsis of what was talked about:

Former NBA official Tim Donaghy joined Bull & Fox to talk about his biggest regret over his officiating scandal in the NBA, Ed Rush?s comments towards Mark Cuban while he was the head of officials in the NBA, his comments toward Arizona coach Sean Miller, his experience in betting on games, giving teams advantages by officiating games differently, especially in the playoffs, whether the lottery has become ?fishy?, experience with players betting on games, Rush?s bias towards officials in his past time in the NBA, his belief that there is a major division I school that is involved in a point shaving scandal, whether organized crime has an involvement in sports and more.
Above excerpt and the interview can be found here. Worth a listen to IMO.
 
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