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S&G - you're probably not as literalist as LV, but AKAK's point, I think, is that you can't pick and choose what you're going to interperate literally and what you're going to say is to be taken more metaphorical. On this point, I do believe both Bgrad and LV would agree... if you're going to view the Bible literally, that means Noah was over 600 when he built the ark. Methuselah was 969 years old, and so on.
 
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Bleed S&G - the Galbraith labs analysis is completely at odds with the claimed use of high-alloy rivets in whatever was found in Turkey.

Consider --
Element % As Oxides
Fe -- 8.39 -- 12%
Al -- 8.35 -- 15.77%
Ti -- 1.59 -- 2.65%
Total --- 30.4%
Missing Oxides -- 69.6%
Or Other Components (e.g. Wood)

This implies to me that we are looking at concretions of inorganic oxides in an organic matrix or that Galbraith Labs did not look for, or was not asked to look for remaining silica.

In other words, my first reaction to the illustrated analysis is that the submitter had handed off wood with inorganics concreted into the same, or a mineral sample. It is absolutely positively not an alloy or metal of any description.

The claim of high alloy use is therefore completely misleading. (Not that I find that surprising in the least).
 
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sandgk;893452; said:
Bleed S&G - the Galbraith labs analysis is completely at odds with the claimed use of high-alloy rivets in whatever was found in Turkey.

Consider --
Element % As Oxides
Fe -- 8.39 -- 12%
Al -- 8.35 -- 15.77%
Ti -- 1.59 -- 2.65%
Total --- 30.4%
Missing Oxides -- 69.6%
Or Other Components (e.g. Wood)

This implies to me that we are looking at concretions of inorganic oxides in an organic matrix or that Galbraith Labs did not look for, or was not asked to look for remaining silica.

In other words, my first reaction to the illustrated analysis is that the submitter had handed off wood with inorganics concreted into the same, or a mineral sample. It is absolutely positively not an alloy or metal of any description.

The claim of high alloy use is therefore completely misleading. (Not that I find that surprising in the least).
nor i to be perfectly honest
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;893445; said:
S&G - you're probably not as literalist as LV, but AKAK's point, I think, is that you can't pick and choose what you're going to interperate literally and what you're going to say is to be taken more metaphorical. On this point, I do believe both Bgrad and LV would agree... if you're going to view the Bible literally, that means Noah was over 600 when he built the ark. Methuselah was 969 years old, and so on.
i agree on this point as well, and im sorry AKAK for misunderstanding
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;892887; said:
A couple of points ring out from your response (here)

I will quickly address a couple things before moving forward. First, as exemplified in your harping on my misuse of the word window, even if we accept your "Genesis 6:16: "Build a tshohar," which is an opening for a light source." You offer no analysis of how this opening would be sufficient for ventilation (Woodmoreappe himself said the animals produced between 6 and 12 tons of moisture in exhale. In 40 days of rain, 100% humidity, and no fans, where did this moisture go? I won't add exhale tonnage in to my calculations below, in any event). This is, sadly, something of a M.O. in your posts. I would hope you can enter a response to what follows with analysis and not merely saying "There was a opening for light" leaving the implied and unsupported assertion that it was sufficient to the task of ventilation. I implore you, support it. How big would the Tshohar be? Where do you get the dimensions? How would this be sufficient to ventilate the ark? And so on. That way, we can talk about facts.

Posting a picture of the "Noah's ark museum" establishes nothing. I am certain that my posting a picture of The UFO Museum in Roswell does not convince you that there is alien life out there, and life advanced enough that it has visited Earth.

Actually, this one is in accord with the first paragraph, but your objection to my rain tabulations is little more than offering doubt. You do not offer any counter argument. While the rain is beyond the scope of this thread, here I ask that rather than poke holes and run, offer explanations and more importantly, analysis. Demonstrate.

OK.... On to the meat of what I wanted to do here........

It is clear from your response that you're unsatisfied with the research I did to come up with the figures I used to offer up the analysis I did. You mentioned, for example, a suspicion that I picked the amount an elephant eats for some self serving purpose. I assure you I did not. But, here, I've decided to not even bother trying to come up with my own numbers. Instead, I am going to defer to the work of John Woodmorappe, the Creationist who's ideas I've come to realize your theory originates.

That said, I do not own Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study and have to rely on things I've been able to glean from the internet. I understand that I am placing a fair degree of trust in the words of others on this, and I welcome you - if you have his book - to correct the numbers I use and attribute to him. I will always effort to cite to where I got my information attributed to Woodmorappe. But, again, I'm simply going to be using the numbers, and I'm not particularly interested in the theories advanced by other's on Woodmorappe's work.

First - the dimensions we both agree on - it was 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. It thus has a volume of 1,518,750 cubic feet. It therefore had a displacement of 1,518,750 divided by 100 = 15,187.5 tons. (tonnage calculations) Can we agree that if we put more tonnage in the boat than 15,187.5 tons, it cannot stay afloat? If we cannot agree on this, please explain to me why.

Which brings up a quick side point. On the other thread, you objected to my link of a much bigger ship noting that a wooden ship would be more buoyant. Maybe, and I won't do the buoyancy calculations (feel free). But, we do agree that the Ark was a wooden ship.According to the research I have done, there appears to be an upper limit on the length of wooden ships, which is somewhere around 300 - 350 feet. Of course, this problem is a big reason why the naval industry turned away from wood and towards metals back in the 1850s. An example of a long wooden ship - the U.S.S. Wyoming which measured 329 feet in overall length. It was not pure wood, as it had diagonal iron strapping for support. It also leaked very badly requiring constant pumping. (Problematic for the Ark, no doubt) It was declared not seaworthy and too long for wood construction. The ark is over 100 feet longer.A starting point for long wooden ship research In this regard, wood is not helping your cause, LV.

But, back to the larger point...

15,187.5 tons of space is available on the Ark before it sinks. Let's first consider the weight of the creatures aboard themselves. While we can argue about what "Kind" means, we'll use Woodmorappe's figure, he writes (as you yourself noted):
Link While the median animal may have been a rat sized thing, we should be much more concerned with the average weight. An explanation of why this is so is also provided in the Link (Eample: median of 3 things - consider things which weight 1oz, 2oz, and 100 Tons.. the median = 2oz... If you have a vessel that can carry 50 tons, relying on the median to do your calculation of if you'll float will result in failure). The average weight of the animals aboard is 763 pounds, according to Woodmorappe.

16,000 x 763 = 12,208,000 lbs 12,208,000 pounds divided by 2000 (pounds per ton) = 6,104 tons.

15,187.5 - 6,140 = 9,047.5 tons left for food to feed these beasts. I found that Woodmorappe claims each beast ate 1/30th of its body weight per day. Thus - 6,104 divided by 30 = 203.5 tons per day for the entire boat to be fed. Now, we multiply that number by the number of days (371) Woodmorappe says is the number of days we need to feed them. 371 x 203.5 Tons = 75,498.5 Tons for the journey.

Lets see what we have now. A tonnage capacity of 15,187.5
(Less) Biomass weight = 6,140
(Less) Food stores weight = 75,498.5
Equals -66,451 Tons. Well, The Ark is sunk, and we haven't even addressed fresh water yet. Likewise, we haven't considered that the Earth was destroyed of all life, and these creatures - once offloaded, would not have anything to eat until the Earth repopulated itself with plants, thus Noah would have needed even more food with him.

Now, then... Let's assume that the craft, despite the fact that it sunk some 66,000 tons ago, has not sunk or owing to it's wooden construction and length in excess of the apparent upper limit, not foundered. You claim that 8 people were responsible for feeding and dealing with the excrement of 16,000 animals.

Feed 1 time a day. Poop or pee 3 times a day. Fair? Peeing is important, because if it's not also thrown over board, well... you get one foul mess down below. While I have seen some suggestion that gravity got rid of the pee, I fail to understand how the bottom tier would enjoy the luxury of gravity when it was below the waterline. Opening a hole surely would have caused the Ark to sink, even if it did not on account of weight problems.

But.. what the hell... We'll call it twice a day, and we'll pretend that the pooping and peeing ads no weight at all, that is - it is dealt with immediately. 16,000 x 3 times tended to (to feed, and deal with excrement) = 48,000 times a day. Divide that by 8 people doing the work = 6000 episodes of animal care per day per person. Divide by 24 hours a day, and that's 250 times per hour. 250, a little over 4 times per minute. And that's assuming that none of the humans, Noah and his family, slept one wink for about a year. Instead, they were dealing with an animal ever 15 seconds. Admittedly, they may not have had to deal with each animal individually. Likewise, however, it takes more than 15 seconds to take a bucket of shit from the lowest level up to the deck to throw over board. Likewise, the 8 individuals also themselves need time to eat and shit, which typically takes longer than 15 seconds per episode.


That pretty much ends my post, LV. I hope you are willing to offer a counter analysis rather than spend time simply poking holes in my offer while making no effort on your own to explain a better rationale.

If you are unsatisfied with the numbers I've chosen and attributed to Woodmorappe, please advise, and give me numbers you accept. I will say, I believe in using Woodmorappe's numbers I have already conceded a great deal since I do not believe 16,000 animals can be reasonably expected given the rest of your theory as it relates to current diversity under time constraints which you leave undefined, but surely less than the estimated 4.6 Billion years the Earth has been here.

You forgot to mention the T-Rex tearing shit up..............he'd probably need some kind of special security....
 
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Bleed S & G;893498; said:
i agree on this point as well, and im sorry AKAK for misunderstanding

No worries... I'm sometimes intentionally nebulous so as to see where the response goes...

But... yeah... my point was mostly-- along with my post just a couple before that-- to more or less point out that either you have God playing a very large role-- Noah was 600 years old, the ark and crew, could do everything that is purported of it because it was really God that made it happen... Much like Moses parting the red sea, as was mentioned...

Or...

The point of the story is completely different... that the mechanics of these events are unimportant... indeed may not have even happened at all, and it serves to teach lessons not retell literal history.

I tend to think that BKB's point about God snapping his fingers is an important one... in that a lot of trouble seems to have been undertaken-- whether it was actual ark building if it did actually happen or just making the story relate to the audience if it didn't-- to not overlook the impact of the drama contained in it.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;893414; said:
S&G - the problem is, the thing is not the exact size (Fortunately for the Creationists side the "Cubit" could be anywhere from 17 to 21 inches, though Woodmorappe used 45.xx cm), and if you look at a close up, it's clearly a rock formation - limestone.
No, this size is known to be 515 feet, the 'cubit' is the egyptian cubit:
Friday, December 15, 2000, 8:59 PM
subject long boat
Hello, I.R., a New Zealand man interested in boats and biblical stuff, phoned me and asked if I could calculate the distance between two GPS locations that he recorded in eastern Turkey, shortly after the GPS error was removed from the satellite transmission.



The numbers he got were ...
Top:
North 39 deg 26.395 decimal​
East 044 deg 14.017​
Bottom:
North 39 deg 26.475​
East 044 deg 14.108​
He said he moved quickly between locations to minimize error from Satellite drift. I took the numbers to a friend (name given), who is a mathematics scientist, and he found the appropriate formula for calculating distance between spherical locations.


The answer popped up on the computer screen and he said, "157 metres."

So I asked what is that in feet and he changed the program to show feet, and he said, "516 feet."
Then the number 20.623 inches per cubit came to mind, so I got him to alter the program once more.
The answer that popped up on the screen .... 300 cubits.

I then directed one of the computers there to `www.anchorstone.com' and found the 1959 aerial photograph of Noah's ark.

With my experience with GPS, I would put the error at less than 2 meters. The official recorded elevation measurements were:

Have a merry Christmas, from K.P.

Note: According to the biblical record, the ark of Noah was to be 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits in height (Genesis 6:15). The length of this cubit was understood to be the Egyptian royal cubit which has been determined to be 20.623 inches in length. This makes sense also in light of Moses having been the man who put together the `toledoth' of Genesis.

Measuring the remains of Noah's ark gave 515 feet in length, 138 feet wide after the ark had decayed enough for it to fall apart in such a way that the rib timbers fell by their own weight to their respective sides and the bow and stern falling and each of these producing the additional length and width measurements obtained. The original size in feet was 508 feet in length, 85 feet 9 inches in width and 51 feet 5 inches in height. The interior substructure of what remains of the posts has been estimated to reach from 12 feet in the front to 25 feet in the middle and 8 feet at the rear. The numbers thought to account for what could be discerned from the surface are from front to rear: 12, 16, 22, 25, 21, 16, 13, 8 - in regular intervals. As the remains of the ark indicate, the ship was not built like a box but in regular ship shape, so to speak.

As for the limestone.. no doubt the ark is resting and is impaled by limestone, but when a turkish team blew up a chunk of the ark, why was peterified wood found? Link There are many other accounts of wood being found at this specific site

Hard facts and their numbers
Numbers like that, as well as site artifacts, speak for themselves. They are concrete evidence that something important may be discovered at the location. Something which promises to provide the long sought answers to what happened in those long gone days otherwise only known from the biblical record. The data provided above are better data than mute fossils could ever provide even though such were found at Noah's ark site too and we shall discuss them. We have actual, physical size measurements in close agreement with the biblical record.

Organic derived remains discovered included petrified wood with what appear to be nails, evidence of wood glue apparently used to glue flat wood together, fossilized finger bones, most closely matching those of human fingers, which by comparison are larger than fingers humans have today. Items which appear to be fossilized fruits of the size of a cantaloupe, and miscellaneous bones. How these relate to the ark itself may be more difficult to determine, but they appear to have been buried within the confines of the ark since the time the ship landed or very close to it. Why human appearing bones were found at the location may not be obvious today.

The chemical analysis of a rivet revealed 21.1% Silicon, 8.67% Iron, 8.51% Aluminum, 2.52% Potassium, 2.55% Calcium, 2.48% Sodium, 1.61% Titanium, 1.33% Magnesium, 0.47% Phosphorous, 0.17% Manganese and 0.13% Carbon. All other elements were less than 0.1%. The low Carbon content makes it non-organic.

That after some 4400 years this array of metals was still detected is quite a surprise and shows the antiquity of the material from a time when anything that looked like metal containing rock was molten down and made into desired implements.
"The Possible Oxide Composition Location 2 of a "Rivet".

Note: When an object undergoes the process of fossilization, as its material decays it is replaced by material in the surrounding soil or water. The analysis revealed exactly what would be expected to be found in a fossilized metal washer and rivet (non-living matter) attached to a piece of fossilized wood...


The calculated numbers obtained were:
45.20% SiO2
15.84% Al2O3
10.02% Fe2O3
03.97% CaO
03.44% Na2O
03.00% K2O
02.93% TiO2
01.98% MgO
01.23% P2O5
00.30% MnO2
Note: The discovery of titanium in the "Rivet" is of special interest. The advantage of titanium as a metal is its tremendous strength, its light weight and its resistance to corrosion. All of the analyses performed on the "Rivet" found it to contain Iron, Aluminum, Manganese, Vanadium and Chromium. These elements are known today to be the major alloying agents added to titanium."
 
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Petrfied wood is found in all kinds of locations, none of which have Ark implications. Take, for example, the Petrified Forest in Arizona. What is clear, even if we accept the wood findings, is that the entire site has not been excavated, and we cannot know if there is wood throughout the rock anomoly (which, as my pictures indicate, are pretty common around Arat (and Mars, I guess))

Next, I agree with you about the maximum length of a cubit. The egyptian measure would have the Ark at 515 feet. You'll have to ask Woodmorappe why he choose the smaller value. Cubit Wiki For what it's worth, even if we use the longest cubit (thus giving the ark more tonnage) and ignore the wooden ship building problems I already outlined in my first post, we get:

300 cubits X 2.25feet = 675 (you'd settle for 515, but I'm going with the biggest possible interpretation of Cubit, as per Wiki)
50 cubits wide X 2.25 feet = 112.5 feet
30 Cubits high X 2.25 Feet = 67.5 feet

Volume = 675 X 112.5 X 67.5 = 51,257,810.25
Divide by 100 to get tonnage = 51,257.8125
Let's round up... hell, let's add almost an additional 9,000 tons for no reason at all...

Capacity: 60,000 tons....

You'll recall, with biomass and food we reached figures of:

Biomass weight = 6,140
Food stores weight = 75,498.5

60,000 tons, less 6,140 less 75,498.5 = -21,638.5

A severe difficiency.

If this finding was indeed the Ark, it didn't work.
 
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BKB - very lengthy but should start to address the first post of this thread which no one wants to take on

How many types of animals did Noah take?

Genesis 6:19?20:
?And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.?
Genesis 7:2?3:
?Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.'


There are very few 'clean' animals decsribed here & here:
BibleGateway.com - Passage?Lookup: Lev 11;

BibleGateway.com - Passage?Lookup: Deut 14;

In the original Hebrew, the word for ?beast? and ?cattle? in these passages is the same: behemah, and it refers to land vertebrate animals in general. The word for ?creeping things? is remes, which has a number of different meanings in Scripture, but here it probably refers to reptiles.2 Noah did not need to take sea creatures3 because they would not necessarily be threatened with extinction by a flood. However, turbulent water would cause massive carnage, as seen in the fossil record, and many oceanic species probably did become extinct because of the Flood.

Noah did not need to take plants either?many could have survived as seeds, and others could have survived on floating mats of vegetation. Many insects and other invertebrates were small enough to have survived on these mats as well. The Flood wiped out all land animals which breathed through nostrils except those on the Ark (Genesis 7:22). Insects do not breathe through nostrils but through tiny tubes in their exterior skeleton.

God created a number of different types of animals with much capacity for variation within limits.4 The descendants of each of these different kinds, apart from humans, would today mostly be represented by a larger grouping than what is called a species. In most cases, those species descended from a particular original kind would be grouped today within what modern taxonomists (biologists who classify living things) call a genus (plural genera).

One common definition of a species is a group of organisms which can interbreed and produce fertile offspring, and cannot mate with other species. However, most of the so-called species (obviously all the extinct ones) have not been tested to see what they can or cannot mate with. In fact, not only are there known crosses between so-called species, but there are many instances of trans-generic mating, so the ?kind? may in some cases be as high as the family. Identifying the ?kind? with the genus is also consistent with Scripture, which spoke of kinds in a way that the Israelites could easily recognize without the need for tests of reproductive isolation.
For example, horses, zebras and donkeys are probably descended from an equine (horse-like) kind, since they can interbreed, although the offspring are sterile. Dogs, wolves, coyotes and jackals are probably from a canine (dog-like) kind. All different types of domestic cattle (which are clean animals) are descended from the Aurochs, so there were probably at most seven (or fourteen) domestic cattle aboard. The Aurochs itself may have been descended from a cattle kind including bisons and water buffaloes. We know that tigers and lions can produce hybrids called tigons and ligers, so it is likely that they are descended from the same original kind.

Woodmorappe totals about 8000 genera, including extinct genera, thus about 16,000 individual animals which had to be aboard. With extinct genera, there is a tendency among some paleontologists to give each of their new finds a new genus name. But this is arbitrary, so the number of extinct genera is probably highly overstated. Consider the sauropods, which were the largest dinosaurs?the group of huge plant-eaters like Brachiosaurus, Diplodocus, Apatosaurus, etc. There are 87 sauropod genera commonly cited, but only 12 are ?firmly established? and another 12 are considered ?fairly well established?.5

One commonly raised problem is ?How could you fit all those huge dinosaurs on the Ark?? First, of the 668 supposed dinosaur genera, only 106 weighed more than ten tons when fully grown. Second, as said above, the number of dinosaur genera is probably greatly exaggerated. But these numbers are granted by Woodmorappe to be generous to skeptics. Third, the Bible does not say that the animals had to be fully grown. The largest animals were probably represented by ?teenage? or even younger specimens. The median size of all animals on the ark would actually have been that of a small rat, according to Woodmorappe?s up-to-date tabulations, while only about 11 % would have been much larger than a sheep.

Another problem often raised by atheists and theistic evolutionists is ?how did disease germs survive the flood?? This is a leading question?it presumes that germs were as specialized and infectious as they are now, so all the Ark?s inhabitants must have been infected with every disease on earth. But germs were probably more robust in the past, and have only fairly recently lost the ability to survive in different hosts or independently of a host. In fact, even now many germs can survive in insect vectors or corpses, or in the dried or frozen state, or be carried by a host without causing disease. Finally, loss of resistance to disease is consistent with the general degeneration of life since the Fall.6

The Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits (Genesis 6:15), which is about 140x23x13.5 metres or 459x75x44 feet, so its volume was 43,500 m3 (cubic metres) or 1.54 million cubic feet. To put this in perspective, this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard American railroad stock cars, each of which can hold 240 sheep.

If the animals were kept in cages with an average size of 50x50x30 centimetres (20x20x12 inches), that is 75,000 cm3 (cubic centimetres) or 4800 cubic inches, the 16,000 animals would only occupy 1200 m3 (42,000 cubic feet) or 14.4 stock cars. Even if a million insect species had to be on board, it would not be a problem, because they require little space. If each pair was kept in cages of 10 cm (four inches) per side, or 1000 cm3, all the insect species would occupy a total volume of only 1000 m3, or another 12 cars. This would leave room for five trains of 99 cars each for food, Noah?s family and ?range? for the animals. However, insects are not included in the meaning of behemah or remes in Genesis 6:19-20, so Noah probably would not have taken them on board as passengers anyway.

Tabulating the total volume is fair enough, since this shows that there would be plenty of room on the Ark for the animals with plenty left over for food, range etc. It would be possible to stack cages, with food on top or nearby (to minimize the amount of food carrying the humans had to do), to fill up more of the Ark space, while still allowing plenty of room for gaps for air circulation. We are discussing an emergency situation, not necessarily luxury accommodation. Although there is plenty of room for exercise, skeptics have overstated animals? needs for exercise anyway.

Even if we don?t allow stacking one cage on top of another to save floor space, there would be no problem. Woodmorappe shows from standard recommended floor space requirements for animals that all of them together would have needed less than half the available floor space of the Ark?s three decks. This arrangement allows for the maximum amount of food and water storage on top of the cages close to the animals.
Food requirements

The Ark would probably have carried compressed and dried foodstuffs, and probably a lot of concentrated food. Perhaps Noah fed the cattle mainly on grain, plus some hay for fibre. Woodmorappe calculated that the volume of foodstuffs would have been only about 15 % of the Ark?s total volume. Drinking water would only have taken up 9.4 % of the volume. This volume would be reduced further if rainwater was collected and piped into troughs.
Excretory requirements

It is doubtful whether the humans had to clean the cages every morning. Possibly they had sloped floors or slatted cages, where the manure could fall away from the animals and be flushed away (plenty of water around!) or destroyed by vermicomposting (composting by worms) which would also provide earthworms as a food source. Very deep bedding can sometimes last for a year without needing a change. Absorbent material (e.g. sawdust, softwood wood shavings and especially peat moss) would reduce the moisture content and hence the odour.
Hibernation

The space, feeding and excretory requirements were adequate even if the animals had normal day/night sleeping cycles. But hibernation is a possibility which would reduce these requirements even more. It is true that the Bible does not mention it, but it does not rule it out either. Some creationists suggest that God created the hibernation instinct for the animals on the Ark, but we should not be dogmatic either way.
Some skeptics argue that food taken on board rules out hibernation, but this is not so. Hibernating animals do not sleep all winter, despite popular portrayals, so they would still need food occasionally.
Conclusion

This article has shown that the Bible can be trusted on testable matters like Noah?s Ark. Many Christians believe that the Bible can only be trusted on matters of faith and morals, not scientific matters. But we should consider what Jesus Christ Himself told Nicodemus (John 3:12): ?If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things??

Similarly, if the Scriptures can be wrong on testable matters such as geography, history and science, why should they be trusted on matters like the nature of God and life after death, which are not open to empirical testing? Hence Christians should ?be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you? (1 Peter 3:15), when skeptics claim that the Bible conflicts with known ?scientific facts?.

Christians would be able to follow this command and answer skeptics? anti?Ark arguments effectively, if they read John Woodmorappe?s book Noah?s Ark: a Feasibility Study. This remarkable book is the most complete analysis ever published regarding the gathering of animals to the Ark, provisions for their care and feeding, and the subsequent dispersion. For example, some skeptics have claimed that the post-Flood ground would be too salty for plants to grow. Woodmorappe points out that salt can be readily leached out by rainwater.

Woodmorappe has devoted seven years to this scholarly, systematic answer to virtually all the anti?Ark arguments, alleged difficulties with the Biblical account, and other relevant questions. Nothing else like this has ever been written before?a powerful vindication of the Genesis Ark account.

How did all the animals fit on Noah's Ark?
 
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S&G - Not to dismiss your post, but in my research yesterday I was able to consider that information.

It does not defeat my calculations. And the numbers I am using come straight from the Creationist who LV bases his theory upon.

But, any way... dig me out some numbers out of that stuff, and we'll work with them.
 
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and this dude thinks its alien-ware:
The Great Flood and Noah's Ark legend is common to the Christian, Jewish and Moslem religions. But as often occurs with religious beliefs, few have analyzed the Ark's nautical restrictions. Instead, a common belief exists that it was a simple rectangular vessel built by a single man and his extended family. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Ark's relic has been found (and re-found time and again) in the mountains of Ararat. Matching biblical parameters, it was 64% longer than any modern wooden vessel and had an (unloaded) displacement greater than that of a modern British aircraft carrier.
Government (Los Alamos) personal, once helpful with tests and measurements of it, no longer believe this relic to be Noah's Ark. No wonder, it clearly shows that it was NOT built by humans ~5200 years ago. It offers details of alien engineering principles involving the Golden Ratio. Its metallurgy shows ironwork not even possible until ~3200 years ago as well as the presence of other metals (e.g. titanium and aluminum) that would have been difficult to fabricate even in the early twentieth century. The Book of Noah explicitly specifies that "angels" (with extensive metallurgical skills) built the Ark. They were likely the Nommos, an amphibian species reportedly from the Sirius star system. They left mankind with cuneiform writing and the wheeled vehicle (alien technology of that day). They offered us astronomical knowledge of their own and our solar system (including Vulcan) and evidence of a past major comet/meteorite Earth impact. Finally, they appear to have left repositories of technologies far more advanced than our own. Their story tells of an alien species' attempt to save a deceitful mankind from an approaching comet impact catastrophe that caused Noah's Great Flood. Apprehensively, they may have recently returned to again warn us of a similar impending impact event.
 
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This is precisely the problem of the type of mischaracterization of analysis I mentioned earlier. Just because you find the element iron does not mean you have found the metal iron, likewise with Titanium or Aluminum. All are relatively abundant, Titanium in ilmenitic sands, Aluminum practically everwhere we tread. None of which is refined, all of it bound in minerals or deposits.

Some people are so completely naive or stupid, or both, that it absolutely amazes me that they can get out of bed and breath each morning. It must be, what, a miracle?
 
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