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2009 TSUN arguments, shenanigans (not football)

blueinfla;1504364; said:
That's great that you're having such a good laugh about this and all, but when was the last time UM had a bad offense before 2008? OSU might have a great offense in the near future, but you're primarily a defense based team. Aside from 2005 and 2006, OSU hasn't exactly lit the world on fire on offense during the JT era.

Edit: I guess you could throw the UM '07 offense in the category as extremely underachieving. Great talent that really underperformed.
You're right Lloyd Carr was an offensive genius. He wouldn't have gotten much work pre-2008. But this is a new era of the spread offense. Lotta work for punters.

****in before the split****
 
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blueinfla;1504364; said:
That's great that you're having such a good laugh about this and all, but when was the last time UM had a bad offense before 2008?
How, exactly, does this have anything to do with anything? Michigan's stellar history has little to do with its future under DickRod. Heck, the University of Chicago, Army and Navy were all once national football powers. Your current coach is an overrated bumpkin, so your offense will continue to struggle against Big Ten defenses - even under the "capable" leadership of The Tot.

QBFORCE!!111!!ONES!!1! He will make it all so exciting!
 
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That's great that you're having such a good laugh about this and all, but when was the last time UM had a bad offense before 2008?
2007 & 2005 weren't exactly stellar. Either way I'm not sure what one has to do with the other.

If we're talking history, defense would be a more relevant discussion. But I'm not sure English & Hermann defenses have much relevance to Robinson's unit.
 
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That's great that you're having such a good laugh about this and all, but when was the last time UM had a bad offense before 2008? OSU might have a great offense in the near future, but you're primarily a defense based team. Aside from 2005 and 2006, OSU hasn't exactly lit the world on fire on offense during the JT era.

Edit: I guess you could throw the UM '07 offense in the category as extremely underachieving. Great talent that really underperformed.
so before 2008, all your offensive players were awesome and not soft. except that your cupboard was bare and Carr's players were soft. except before 2008, all your offensive players were awesome and not soft. except that your cupboard was bare and Carr's players were soft. except before 2008.....
 
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The Feagin thing made me go archiving. I hope you guys enjoy some of these nuggets as much as I did.

Funny how the cupboard wasn't quite so bare this time last year. From three7:

I really think Steven Threet will be the starting QB. Now, he's not a fit for the prototypical RR, but he's not chopped liver. IIRC, both major recruiting networks had him as the #10-15 QB in the 2007 class. That won't make up for inexperience and the fact that he's been through a lot in a small amount of time. This is he's 3rd system (GT, old-UM, new-UM) in 13 months.

RR will have to tool the offense to Threet's abilities. He does have a good enough arm to make all the necessary throws. I expect to see lots of safe patterns (screens, hitches, swing passes, outs) to get his confidence up.

The best thing RR can do is have an effective running game. Putting the ball in a RS FR hands and saying, "now go win us a ballgame" wouldn't be recommended.



I do expect to see a read option package (8-12 plays a game) with someone else at QB... possibilities included Hemingway, Feagin, Brown or Minor.

Pre-spring practice look at UM's offense. So what are the relative strengths and weaknesses on the offensive side of the ball?

Cause for optimism:
1) RB depth appears to be adequate with a good amount of experience. The primary contributors will be Grady, Minor, and Brown. Early reports indicate all are doing well during the offseason workouts. Hopefully, fair competition brings the best out in this group. IMO, UM will need to run the ball successfully to win more so this year than any other (to include Henne?s FR year?he had Braylon remember). However, RBs are only one part of running the ball successfully. They can?t do it all themselves.

2) TE?probably the most depth UM has had in years with Watson, Webb, Massey, Butler and the incoming FR if they can stay healthy. Granted, that?s not a ton of bodies, but I don?t know how much double TE will be utilized under RR. There?s a good deal of athleticism here as well with Butler and Webb, but Massey is the best blocker by far.


Cause for concern:
1) There are lots of questions at the WR positions, especially at the slot positions. I expect Hemingway and Matthews to be the prime contributors on the outside with Clemons and FR Stonum contributing (Stonum for his speed). Neither Hemingway nor Matthews are burners, but both appear physical (important for blocking) and rather sure handed. On the inside, I don?t think the starting slot WRs are even enrolled at UM yet. Look for FR T-Robinson, Shaw and Roundtree to compete for that position. That?s a lot to ask of any FR, but even more so in this offense. The slot is a critical piece so someone must step up quickly.

2) Lots of youth on the OL, but some experience scattered around. It?s safe to assume Boren will be back at LG and that Schilling will start somewhere. That leaves LT, OC, and either RG or RT open depending on where Schilling plays. I?ve got mixed feelings on who should play where. Supposedly, RR wants to get the 5 best OL on the field, regardless of natural position. Depth is a definite concern though too with (IRRC) only 9 scholarship OL on the roster entering spring practices. I really don?t think any of the FR will play this season unless there are significant injuries. Despite what ?others? may tell you, OT play is very important to the success of the RR offense. These guys must be athletic enough to slide directionally and maintain blocks one-on-one (like in the previous offense)? they are almost on ?islands? when there?s no TE in the game. If I were a guessing man, I?d think the day one starters would be Dorrestein, Boren, Molk or Moosman, Schilling, and Ortmann from LT to RT. I wouldn?t be surprised to see Schilling and Ortmann to switch.

3) The QB position is the most obvious place to start. UM returns prototypical dropback passers in Cone and Threet (plus Sheridan ) with incoming dual threat QB Feagin. Threet will most likely be the starter, but I don?t think anyone would be surprised to see Feagin, Brown, or even WR JR Hemingway taking snaps to run the option series. IMO, the best things RR can do to help the QB out is 1) to establish a running game and 2) scheme to get our athletes (slots and WR) open in space. It?s unrealistic and unfair to expect any underclassmen, first year starting QB to win games outright for you. The best plan would be to let him ?manage? the game by simply getting others the ball.




Personally, I'm not all doom and gloom here. There is a lot of talent, but, at the same time, I'm trying to be realistic in my expectations. There are a lot of young players that will be expected to contribute significant so some growing pains should pay off in the years to come.

A couple from HTM:

Sheridan being under center wouldn't change my outlook on next year's schedule. I anticipate going 4-0 against Miami, Toledo, Minnesota, and Northwestern; at worst 3-2 against Penn State, Purdue, MSU, Notre Dame, and Utah, and at best 1-2 against Illinois, Wisconsin, and OSU. I don't think he'd be written in stone for starter in '09, I think we'd have to see what Feagin looks like and how the class of '09 recruits look.



And as for Sheridan, consider his situation - he sat behind an incumbent starter until his senior year, then broke his collarbone a month into the season when he did start. Fits right into the theme of under-evaluated, not under-talented. We will see. It is way, way premature to call the QB situation embarrassing, especially since what got us here (primarily, Mallett's transfer) is not some damning indictment of the program.

So then it was "under evaluated, not under talented" my what a different tune is being sung now.

Goblue15 chimes in:

RR knows better than any of us what the team needs. Im not worried about our defensive recruiting we are in good shape with alot of good players.

Sportsbuck28 found some uncredited beauty's from scUM fans on different boards at the time:

Feagin is gonna get valuable playing time this season and will be the full-time starter sooner rather than later...let's face it, the spread option isn't going to be the hardest offense to grasp considering 2 of those 3 guys ran it/do run it in high school. Feagin did it and he's being severely underestimated so far. Beaver runs the exact same offense, and while Newsome doesn't run it, he's got the tools to be the best out of the 3 at it.

I'm not worried at all at it. If we were throwing the ball 40 times a game, yes, I'd be worried, because then you've gotta take a lot of decision-making skills into account, throwing power, accuracy, etc., a lot of variables. But when RRod has a playbook where these guys can just grab the snap and start running, I don't have a problem with a true frosh starting at all, and they'll be good with that. The only decisions they have to make in that case is whether or not to hand it off from a read on the defensive end, or when to pitch and not pitch it on an option. And considering Feagin has already done that and so has Beaver, they'll be just fine.

I honestly do like how people are saying Michigan is going to go 5-7 this year and be absolutely terrible. People don't realize how easy the offense is to run compared to a pro style offense or just a plain spread offense. The spread option offense is not hard to learn. I would be surprised if the team does any worse than 3 losses this season. I'm looking for 11-2 or 10-3 at worst.

and then NFB found the queen mother of them all:

HollandSeaofBlue wrote: Had we brought in Pryor, I'd believe that we could contend for the Big Ten title this season. Since he went to the bad guys, I'll try to patiently wait until Newsome comes in.
ehhhh, feagin is a better passer at this point. only thing pryor has on feagin, is an edge in speed and a slight edge in shiftiness

:slappy:


When you go back and actually look at the statements they were making at the time and the backpeddling spin BS they are trying now its hilarious. Don't ever let up on these arrogant fucks.
 
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Sheridan being under center wouldn't change my outlook on next year's schedule. I anticipate going 4-0 against Miami, Toledo, Minnesota, and Northwestern; at worst 3-2 against Penn State, Purdue, MSU, Notre Dame, and Utah, and at best 1-2 against Illinois, Wisconsin, and OSU. I don't think he'd be written in stone for starter in '09, I think we'd have to see what Feagin looks like and how the class of '09 recruits look.

:rofl: I guess he got that part right
 
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HollandSeaofBlue wrote: Had we brought in Pryor, I'd believe that we could contend for the Big Ten title this season. Since he went to the bad guys, I'll try to patiently wait until Newsome comes in.
ehhhh, feagin is a better passer at this point. only thing pryor has on feagin, is an edge in speed and a slight edge in shiftiness

Jesus, Mary and Travolta...I forgot about that lil gem. Glad I dragged it over here for posterity's sake. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Let that be a lesson to all of you, when you see stupid fucking comments like that on a scUM board, take the time to share over here so we can mock them relentlessly when they're (inevitably) proven miles wrong. :slappy:
 
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Again, Mlive provides loads of comedy!!

305922.4. RR took a flyer
by Softballgods, 7/25/09 20:03 ET
Re: Feagins by RedDawn4, 7/25/09
Feagin was a last ditch effort to get a dual threat QB in the 2008 class. He wasn't ever consider the savior. But RR saw enough in him to offer a free ride to the winningest college football program.



Feagin went from being equal to Pryor to a charity case in less than a year. I love the clusterfuck happening in that whore in the north!! :lol:
 
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So correct me if I'm wrong here but hasn't it gone like this QB wise?

They said: We're going to get Pryor
Reality said: Fail

Then they said: Thats ok we've got Feagin and Threet/Sheridan are under evaluated, not under talented.
Reality said: Epic Fail. How does a 3-9 record, the 108th passing offense and the 109th total offense sound instead?

Then they said: Its ok we are going to get Newsome
Reality said: All aboard the Fail boat.

Then they said: Its ok we got us some shaved beaver on the way
Reality said: Tulsa Fail. Thats right, Tulsa.

Now they say: Its ok, they were all scared off by Tater Tot, he's been the real prize all along.

I guess we'll have to wait for reality to officially speak again but I'm seeing a trend.
 
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Jaxbuck;1504547; said:
So correct me if I'm wrong here but hasn't it gone like this QB wise?

They said: We're going to get Pryor
Reality said: Fail

Then they said: Thats ok we've got Feagin and Threet/Sheridan are under evaluated, not under talented.
Reality said: Epic Fail. How does a 3-9 record, the 108th passing offense and the 109th total offense sound instead?

Then they said: Its ok we are going to get Newsome
Reality said: All aboard the Fail boat.

Then they said: Its ok we got us some shaved beaver on the way
Reality said: Tulsa Fail. Thats right, Tulsa.

Now they say: Its ok, they were all scared off by Tater Tot, he's been the real prize all along.

I guess we'll have to wait for reality to officially speak again but I'm seeing a trend.

You've forgotten Devin Gardner. In their defense, he looks like a potential stud, but they're already annointing him as the chosen one.
 
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NFBuck;1504549; said:
You've forgotten Devin Gardner. In their defense, he looks like a potential stud, but they're already annointing him as the chosen one.

So in year 3, 2010, of the RR era they will be betting on yet another true freshman at QB (if this years true freshman phenom doesn't pan out) ?

Gotta love how big time coaches run a program.
 
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Jaxbuck;1504552; said:
So in year 3, 2010, of the RR era they will be betting on yet another true freshman at QB (if this years true freshman phenom doesn't pan out) ?

Gotta love how big time coaches run a program.

Who knows. I happen to think Tater could do quite well, IF he can stay healthy. But if they're going to Gardner next year, they're really in a pickle. He's a freak athlete, but very raw as a passer. Maybe even moreso than TP was last year...and he won't have a Beanie Wells in the backfield to bail him out. They're losing a lot of RB after this season.
 
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Gonna add a sugar coating, these messages are from scUM fans on various boards/youtube pre 2008...


Enjoy!



scUM fan #1

-Steven Threet: He is a transfer from Georgia Tech. He can’t run, and he will only be a redshirt freshmen. But, he has a lot of raw talent. He has a cannon of an arm, has great size at 6’6, 228, was a 4 star prospect coming out of high school, and was rated as the 9th best QB in the nation from the class of 2007. He has the heads up on the starting job going into summer camp. Running RR’s offense, Threet has a chance to be the next Shaun King (who was the pocket passing QB at Tulane in 1998 when RR was the o-coordinator, and when Tulane went 12-0)

When RR wants to run the zone read or triple option (his bread and butter plays) he can bring in Feagin as a substitute, just like Tebow was bought in Florida for 2006, and Perriloux was bought in for LSU in 2007. If Feagin ends up being the starter, he could be the next Pat White. Either way, as a substitute or a starter, Feagin should be an asset.

Justin Feagin, in setence, is the poor mans Terrelle Pryor....



scUM fan #2

Brown is Michigan’s best athlete at the tailback position, and is even a better athlete then Mike Hart. Blessed with blazing speed and agility..


Just like Brown, Minor is blessed with raw talent. He is more of a power back, but he has very nice straight-line speed


And this is where I just nearly fell out of my chair laughing...

a dominant middle linebacker in Obi Ezeh; and two shutdown cornerbacks in Trent and Donovan Warren. Defense wins championships, and Michigans defense is gonig to be arguably the best in the Big Ten in 2008, and one of the best in the nation




I can post sooooooooooooo much more of what these people thought pre-2008. I held onto all these messages and statements (and flame mails) just to rub it in at the right time: and that time is now.
 
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