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2012-13 Men's Basketball (B1G Tourney Champs, NCAA Elite Eight)

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Bucknut24;2236625; said:
who are the expected starting 5?

and doesn't #4 seem awfully high? I didn't think this team was supposed to be that great this year?
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Craft, Smith and Thomas for sure will start. My expectation is Scott and Ravenel will be the other two - it is obviously still TBD, but Matta said the best defensive players will start. Now, Thomas probably isn't one of the best 5 defenders, but he's going to start anyway - I take that comment from Matta to mean the open spots will be won by the best defenders. If Scott-Craft-Smith-Thomas-Ravenel isn't the starting 5, then most likely it will be Thompson in instead of Scott. I think Ravenel is the favorite to start at the 5, but Amir undoubtedly will get a lot of minutes there as well. But it's a good possibility that Matta will use his bench more this year since he doesn't have as many stars as he's had in years past - you know you'll have at least one big and one guard get regular bench minutes, and there's a chance they will go a bit deeper than that but the bench guys have to prove themselves.

#4 is high no doubt, but there is a fairly wide range in opinion on just how good this team will be. Some people seem to think they have the material to make it back to the F4 potentially, others think they will be "just" another Sweet 16 type team - it could go either way depending on whether guys step up and play better than they did last year. The preseason prognosticators no doubt have caught on that Matta's teams rarely underachieve and so they know putting OSU at a high ranking is more likely than not to make them look like they're good at doing their job. Also it is not completely inaccurate to state that sometimes the pundits put a team in the top-5 just because they have a significant amount of talent coming back from an F4 team, even when they have lost key players - same thing happened for MSU in preseason for the 2010-11 season but they did not meet expectations that year obviously.

You question why OSU is rated high, but look what all these publications are doing with UM. They will have not had even an Elite 8 team for 20 years by the time this year's tourney rolls around and are replacing practically half their rotation with freshmen (none of whom are top-10 recruits). But in spite of failing to be a top-5 team for each of the past 20 years, most prognosticators have UM in the top-5 - I think it speaks to the mass rebuild that is happening at a lot of schools out there that typically are strong.

Litl, the coach who made the comment about OSU not scaring him is probably Izzo. He is one of four coaches in the Big Ten that would've faced Oden - the others are Carmody (who no one cares to interview), Ryan (not a big interview/publicity guy), and Painter (who was in his first year as full-time coach when Oden played).
 
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brodybuck21 said:
this is true but we only had Greg for 1 year and Sully for 2. We seemed to still be pretty good in those other seasons.
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In those other years, the surrounding cast were proven players. That is not as true this year with Thomas being the only proven scorer. The jury is still out on Craft and his ability score. The same with Smith and William and Ross/Thompson have not proved themselves yet.
 
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DZ83CK;2236767; said:
Craft, Smith and Thomas for sure will start. My expectation is Scott and Ravenel will be the other two - it is obviously still TBD, but Matta said the best defensive players will start. Now, Thomas probably isn't one of the best 5 defenders, but he's going to start anyway - I take that comment from Matta to mean the open spots will be won by the best defenders. If Scott-Craft-Smith-Thomas-Ravenel isn't the starting 5, then most likely it will be Thompson in instead of Scott. I think Ravenel is the favorite to start at the 5, but Amir undoubtedly will get a lot of minutes there as well. But it's a good possibility that Matta will use his bench more this year since he doesn't have as many stars as he's had in years past - you know you'll have at least one big and one guard get regular bench minutes, and there's a chance they will go a bit deeper than that but the bench guys have to prove themselves.
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I agree with most everything you have said especially with regard to the fact that Matta will use the bench quite a bit more than he has in the past. Not with just the number of players but the minutes that guys will see who come off the bench.

I guess it really doesn't make any difference who starts but it will be interesting to see the number of minutes that Williams and ER get. ER might get the start just because he is a senior but if Williams has improved his comfort level since last season I can see him playing more minutes then ER. Williams brings a defensive presence that Ravenel does not bring.

I am also somewhat confused as to why you do not mention Ross as a possible starter. I know that his defense is not the greatest in the world but if his offensive presence is even close to what people are saying it is I can see him splitting time with Smith/Scott/Thompson. None of those guys bring the outside shooting capability of Ross if everything I read is true:paranoid:
 
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Matta saying the best defenders will start may be his way of saying Ross is not starting since he is known as the weakest defender among the trio of he, Scott and Thompson. Ross is a talented player and could earn a lot of minutes since he seems to have playmaking ability that the other guards do not, but I think even with the praise he has gotten, analysts have always thrown in caveats - that he could be the most talented on the team but still needs the lightbulb to come on or that he showed flashes of brilliance but disappeared at other times. Matta has always shown a penchant for consistency, and that is apparently not Ross' strongsuit.

Some people seem to think Amir was a better defensive player than Ravenel because Amir is tougher to score over and blocks a lot more shots, but there's much more to defense than that. Rav was way more active out there, a lot better at getting out and guarding on the perimeter and recovering to the paint. Neither of them were particularly good rebounders but I'd give the edge to Ravenel in that category due to being more active/mobile. And there's little doubt that Rav is a better offensive threat as well. Amir will get plenty of minutes to show what he can do, but he still has some serious improvements to make before he earns a starting spot, IMO.
 
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I don't believe Matta literally meant that the best 5 defensive players on the team would start (Thomas is going to start). His comments to the interviewer were that it was a statement he made to his players. I took that as coach speak for him telling them that if you wanna earn PT, you better work hard on the defensive end.

I agree with the three certain starters and that Rav is the likely starter at C. I think the last spot is open and will be Ross, Scott or Thompson. Given that we likely start a smaller front line, I think Ross is the 5th starter as long as he's working hard on the his defense and improving. I don't think the starting lineup is set and wouldn't be surprised to see several different starting lineup and rotations before we get to conference play.
 
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Thomas had some tough moments defensively against Syracuse, being hesitant to guard the three closely because he was afraid of the blow by, and conceding a few open 3s as a result. I think him getting in better shape and losing some weight should help him defensively, but he has to avoid taking plays off. He has to give better effort at times.

As far as Trevor Mbakwe goes, what hasn't he done? Smashed a woman's face, causing fractures (which got him on probation to start with). Violated a restraining order another woman filed against him while he was on probation. And most recently a DUI while still on probation. If it was an OSU player instead of a Minnesota player, people would be making a lot bigger deal about it.
 
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MaxBuck;2236987; said:
DeShaun Thomas became a very good defender by the end of last season.
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DT became a better defender as the year went on, specifically on the pick and roll. However, he was just an average defender and not one of the 5 best defenders on the team. Still needs work on off the ball and help defense. Some of has to do with "want to" and some of it is still learning how to play it.

If you were going to rate the 5 best defenders on the team, Craft, Scott, Thompson and Smith would clearly be the best 4. The rest all have weaknesses, but I'd put Rav as the 5th best overall defender given his combination of defending the post and on the perimeter, though I think Thomas isn't too far behind. Williams is good in the post, but not so much outside the lane.
 
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wigmon;2237333; said:
If you were going to rate the 5 best defenders on the team, Craft, Scott, Thompson and Smith would clearly be the best 4.
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No argument. But they're outstanding defenders, and I still rate Thomas as "very good." His length and guile make him very valuable on the defensive end.

Most teams in the US would love to have defenders as capable as Thomas. We often forget that over the past 5 years, the Buckeyes average fewer points per opponent possession than any other team in the nation. So being the 5th-best Buckeye defender still puts you in a pretty rarified atmosphere.
 
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Bob Baptist has made a nice write-up on his take from watching practice today:

http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/con.../2012/10/10-22-12-thoughts-from-practice.html

I can see Thompson as a starter easily. I'm not as sure about Amir - even Baptist's comments make it seem like Ravenel was outplaying Amir for much of the practice, but for some reason he takes the team they played on in practice as clear evidence of who will start. I think it's more likely that Matta had to balance out the frontcourts on each "team" in practice so they were evenly matched, rather than sending a message about the likely starters. For instance, at the same event two years ago, DLaud and Sully were matched up against each other the entire practice but they started together. Either way, Ravenel and Amir have both been somewhat foul-prone, so they both should end up with a lot of minutes (and foul trouble could allow Trey to see some significant minutes as well if he is ready). Baptist was not impressed with Ross's play.
 
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