zincfinger
Gert Frobe-approved
Am I wrong in understanding this as, "Sure, Beck stunk. But Meyer is more to blame for hiring him, which he didn't have to, than Beck is for stinking, which he couldn't help"?
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- Thread starter ScriptOhio
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Rather than hire an actual strong oc, meyer promoted his line coach to keep him. Then he hired Ed's old running mate to be his offensive assistant and underling below Ed (who was below Urban).
Urban was the one that pushed for the Ill advised Hodge podge scheme that had no identity and was some weird combo of pro style, zone read, hey braxton here's the ball be magical, and other absurdity.
Then when it failed miserably who does EVERYONE blame ? The 3rd guy. What about when the offense fails again in 2016, do they blame Ed or Urban? Nah, still the other guy.
It would be like blaming Day if Wilson's scheme fails next year
Should Urban replace Beck ? Absolutely. Is he near the top of the reasons things went south ? No.
Urban was the one that pushed for the Ill advised Hodge podge scheme that had no identity and was some weird combo of pro style, zone read, hey braxton here's the ball be magical, and other absurdity.
Then when it failed miserably who does EVERYONE blame ? The 3rd guy. What about when the offense fails again in 2016, do they blame Ed or Urban? Nah, still the other guy.
It would be like blaming Day if Wilson's scheme fails next year
Should Urban replace Beck ? Absolutely. Is he near the top of the reasons things went south ? No.
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Hstead
Legend
Watch the JT 2014 highlights and notice how many plays from that video that haven't been ran in two years. It is atrocious. There is a reason Leonhard said what he did. We literally ran the same limited plays, including pass plays, over and over and over. Defenses were prepared. We brought nothing new to the game each week. 2014 was far from that. We had staple plays and bread and butter, but we also used deception, misdirection, and we set other plays up.
Not only was the play calling night and day different from Herman to Warriner/Beck, but so were the plays. Running and passing. It was a totally different offense with the exception of a very few similarities, ie inside zone read.
There were games where play action was damn near non-existent, those were the worst games, especially first down.
Also, the play calling improved quite a bit when Warriner went to the box. Warriner had some good games, OU being one this year. Why it changed after that fact I am not certain, but what I am certain of is when Beck was in the Booth by himself the offensive was demonstrably at its worst for 100% sure.
Not only was the play calling night and day different from Herman to Warriner/Beck, but so were the plays. Running and passing. It was a totally different offense with the exception of a very few similarities, ie inside zone read.
There were games where play action was damn near non-existent, those were the worst games, especially first down.
Also, the play calling improved quite a bit when Warriner went to the box. Warriner had some good games, OU being one this year. Why it changed after that fact I am not certain, but what I am certain of is when Beck was in the Booth by himself the offensive was demonstrably at its worst for 100% sure.
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Systems_id
Head Coach
Well when your HC is responsible for the highest winning percentage among active coaches and has amassed 3 National Titles, people tend to give him a little more leeway. Urban has made mistakes but he's shown that he generally tends to correct them.
And Warriner has at least shown he's competent at coaching one unit. Beck has proven to be a complete liability except for recruiting.
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zincfinger
Gert Frobe-approved
Right. You're saying people should stop absolving Meyer for making a bad hire, and stop putting their focus on Beck for being a bad hire.
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Ed was hired (promoted) as the oc, not Beck. He has been good in a very small handful of games in two years.
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at last.
which is why I did not want Beck retained, but the blame is overwhelmingly Ed's and Urban's.
This situation is not unlike Luke's disastrous run at DC (except for the accidental promotion to head coach until Meyer could move in). He wasn't cut out for that promotion but he's a great position coach . Likewise, withers also deserved to be replaced, and like Beck brought little to the table to save his job. But the failures on defense were not primarily his doing.
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Systems_id
Head Coach
I don't see how your position is reasonable unless you expect your coach to be completely infallible. No one in their right mind would lay that much blame on a boss if said boss had a track record like Meyer's. Even criticizing Meyer for keeping Beck as long as he did is unreasonable. No coach is going to get fired after one year. And Beck has the distinct honor of being completely shit at both QB development AND play calling, so I sure as hell place a lot of blame on him. At least Warriner was competent at something.
I mean, there's not one business who would ever place the amount of blame you want to place on Meyer for making two bad hires if he's hit a home run every other time. Especially at a position with this much turnover.
Like, you're essentially asking fans to be more unreasonable than we already are.
And I'm not sure why you brought up Fickell. "Fire Fickell" is a meme on this board for a reason. We wanted both him and Withers gone equally.
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Fungo Squiggly
Mortal enemy of all things Bucky
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For the record, I want them to re-hire Fickell and then fire him. Letting him leave on his own terms is bullshit.
SO GLAD TO SEE THE FICKLE PICKLE DEFENSE GONE!
SO GLAD TO SEE THE FICKLE PICKLE DEFENSE GONE!
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zincfinger
Gert Frobe-approved
I guess I'm slow, in that I continue to fail to see how what you're saying differs from my characterization of it.
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ScriptOhio
Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.
Yeah, bring back the SILVER BULLET DEFENSE. Re-hire Fred Pagac as DC.......
Pagac coined the term "Silver Bullet Defense" while he was the Buckeyes' defensive coordinator.
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ScriptOhio
Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.
FILM STUDY: OHIO STATE'S MOST SUCCESSFUL PASSING CONCEPTS OF 2016
After a year plagued by inconsistent performances through the air in 2015, J.T. Barrett and his Ohio State teammates started the 2016 season off with a bang. The junior quarterback found redshirt freshman receiver K.J. Hill streaking past a Bowling Green safety on only his fourth passing attempt of the afternoon for a 47-yard bomb to give the Buckeyes their first points of the new campaign.
Sensing pressure, the Buckeye captain changed the protection scheme before the snap by motioning 'H' receiver Dontre Wilson into the backfield, assuring he'd have plenty of time to let Hill's route develop downfield. There was never a question of where Barrett was throwing the ball on this particular play, as the former conference player-of-the-year recognized an opportunity to attack and set a positive tone for his third tour as Ohio State's starting quarterback.
With one flick of the shoulder, Barrett seemed to erase months of negativity and doubt, as the underperforming passing game that prevented perhaps the most talented team in school history from repeating as national champions the year prior seemed to have found its way in the offseason. All seemed well and in order for Buckeye fans that afternoon, as the single greatest offensive performance in 126 years of football was on display for the home fans in Ohio Stadium.
However, that momentum quickly faded.
Though Barrett would win his second Big Ten Quarterback-of-the-Year award, center Pat Elflein would be named the conference's best lineman, running back Mike Weber the best freshman, and Curtis Samuel would become the most dangerous skill player in the entire conference, the unit often looked much like it had the year before. Despite the efforts of Urban Meyer and his two offensive coordinators, Ed Warinner and Tim Beck, the OSU passing game once again resembled Jekyll and Hyde, leaving fans to wonder which version would show up each Saturday.
When this group was on its game, they were very good. Despite lacking a regular downfield threat through the air, Barrett remained remarkably efficient. Though he'd only break the 300-yard mark against the Falcons in week one, big efforts against Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers gave fans hope throughout the ensuing run to the College Football Playoff.
While the lack of a deep passing game was apparent to all, Barrett and the staff began to rely heavily on intermediate routes, specifically attacking the opposing linebackers and safeties inside along the seams. Knowing Barrett's threat as a runner would force defenses into zone coverage on nearly every play, the staff leaned most heavily on the 'H-Option' concept, isolating their best receiver, Samuel, against a lesser opponent and allowing him to work.
Entire article: http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-...-the-ohio-state-passing-game-did-well-in-2016
After a year plagued by inconsistent performances through the air in 2015, J.T. Barrett and his Ohio State teammates started the 2016 season off with a bang. The junior quarterback found redshirt freshman receiver K.J. Hill streaking past a Bowling Green safety on only his fourth passing attempt of the afternoon for a 47-yard bomb to give the Buckeyes their first points of the new campaign.
Sensing pressure, the Buckeye captain changed the protection scheme before the snap by motioning 'H' receiver Dontre Wilson into the backfield, assuring he'd have plenty of time to let Hill's route develop downfield. There was never a question of where Barrett was throwing the ball on this particular play, as the former conference player-of-the-year recognized an opportunity to attack and set a positive tone for his third tour as Ohio State's starting quarterback.
With one flick of the shoulder, Barrett seemed to erase months of negativity and doubt, as the underperforming passing game that prevented perhaps the most talented team in school history from repeating as national champions the year prior seemed to have found its way in the offseason. All seemed well and in order for Buckeye fans that afternoon, as the single greatest offensive performance in 126 years of football was on display for the home fans in Ohio Stadium.
However, that momentum quickly faded.
Though Barrett would win his second Big Ten Quarterback-of-the-Year award, center Pat Elflein would be named the conference's best lineman, running back Mike Weber the best freshman, and Curtis Samuel would become the most dangerous skill player in the entire conference, the unit often looked much like it had the year before. Despite the efforts of Urban Meyer and his two offensive coordinators, Ed Warinner and Tim Beck, the OSU passing game once again resembled Jekyll and Hyde, leaving fans to wonder which version would show up each Saturday.
When this group was on its game, they were very good. Despite lacking a regular downfield threat through the air, Barrett remained remarkably efficient. Though he'd only break the 300-yard mark against the Falcons in week one, big efforts against Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers gave fans hope throughout the ensuing run to the College Football Playoff.
While the lack of a deep passing game was apparent to all, Barrett and the staff began to rely heavily on intermediate routes, specifically attacking the opposing linebackers and safeties inside along the seams. Knowing Barrett's threat as a runner would force defenses into zone coverage on nearly every play, the staff leaned most heavily on the 'H-Option' concept, isolating their best receiver, Samuel, against a lesser opponent and allowing him to work.
Entire article: http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-...-the-ohio-state-passing-game-did-well-in-2016
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