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Arizona State Sun Devils (official thread)

Frost showed that like Herman and a number of other coaches who had quick G5 success, that it doesn’t always translate when the pressure is cranked up to a national scale. Frost would do well if ASU joined the WAC
Herman hadn’t coached in some time, and has never been a HC at the college level, so I don’t really see that as a viable comparison. In fact as a pro coach he probably saw more pressure than at ASU.
No doubt Frost shit the bed at Nebraska, but who hasn’t since they fired Solich and then later Bo.
My point is that the ASU job might be less pressure than revitalizing a dormant Cornhusker program. Decent recruiting ground compared to fields of the plains.
Of course Paul Chryst is just a phone call away..
 
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Herman hadn’t coached in some time, and has never been a HC at the college level, so I don’t really see that as a viable comparison. In fact as a pro coach he probably saw more pressure than at ASU.
No doubt Frost shit the bed at Nebraska, but who hasn’t since they fired Solich and then later Bo.
My point is that the ASU job might be less pressure than revitalizing a dormant Cornhusker program. Decent recruiting ground compared to fields of the plains.
Of course Paul Chryst is just a phone call away..
I meant Tom Herman… sorry for not clarifying

Frost had no excuse, especially after being able to win in FL. Idk how he couldn’t pull some players from that state to Lincoln,it’s possible. Cold weather programs have been able to pull talent from there yearly. He also coached at Oregon, so I would’ve figured that he also had inroads in CA and the west coast as well. I believe complacency set in, and he didn’t think they’d can him. Thought he was Fitzgerald

Frost could have some success at ASU because of the lack of pressure, i completely agree. And for the points you made,he’d have some consistent success
 
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I like Frost and wish him well. I would not wish the ASU job on him.

While we joke about being paid millions to not coach football, and while there are some who seem to appreciate that for what it is without stressing out about it (Orgeron), the main thing that makes a coaching job bad is the stress that it can cause. Frost just got fired from his dream job. He won them a national championship as a qb, and coached a school on a different tier to an undefeated season. The stress of his dream job seems to have undone him. Wherever he goes from here, what he's been through is worse imho.

If you can approach coaching like Orgeron did, and somehow get to the place where they pay you $17M to walk away, then great. But for most coaches, the stress is real. Some jobs produce more stress than others. Some jobs seem to produce stress for coaches that seemed calm, cool, collected, confident, and successful elsewhere. How does that happen?

I don't think there's any one answer for every coach and every job, but there are principles in play here that are the same for coaching as for any other profession. The first and most obvious principle here is the Peter Principle. Some guys who are great position coaches are promoted to being bad coordinators. Some great coordinators are promoted to being bad HCs. It happens. Any time you hold a job for which you are not qualified, there is stress. If you are completely comfortable with who you are and your limitations (Orgeron), great. But any illusions about what you should be able to accomplish cause stress.

But how does a guy who goes undefeated at one school turn into a stressed out mess who appears to have cracked under the pressure and flamed out at another school? It seems to me that the answer, sometimes, lies not with the coach, but with the school. Some schools have illusions about who and what they are. More to the point, they harbor illusions about what their coaches should be able to accomplish.

This is most tragic with programs like Nebraska, who not so long ago were on the top tier of the sport. But the sport has changed, and there may not be a place for them on the top tier anymore.

It's not that the requirements for the top tier have changed. It's that Nebraska's ability to meet those requirements changed.

We could probably debate what the requirements are forever. I'll just state what I think they are and then let it go. Debate away.
  • Administrative commitment to excellence - Check
  • Fully endowed scholarships - Check
  • Top-Level Facilities and the funding to keep them at the top level - Check
  • Multi-generational fan base for whom your team is a family tradition, not just a sport they follow - Check
  • EITHER: Access to truly elite-level recruits - This used to be a checkmark. Now, not so much.
  • OR: Membership in a conference where no one else has access to recruits better than what you get - At UCF, yes. At Corn, no
Could the right coach get Nebraska elite recruits? Maybe. But Scott Frost is certainly not a guy with the kind of charisma that would be necessary to do that. If you want to talk about whether it's even possible at Nebraska, debate away. In my opinion, the changing of the game has given access to the top-level recruits primarily to teams that reside in cities that are big enough to be attractive to recruits, but not big enough to have pro sports teams. It appears that hockey doesn't count, because Columbus checks that box pretty hard. Lincoln, not so much, for reasons that might be more about location than about size.

This brings us to Arizona State. I moved to Maricopa County in the late 80s. There were billboards for ASU football season tickets. That was as unimaginable in Columbus then as it is now. They do not have the multi-generational fan base, and that might be foundational to much else that is on that list. The point is, if ASU brings in a coach and asks him to be more than an occasional contender for the PAC-?? title, then that could be a high stress job. If they accept who they are and what they can reasonably expect of a coach, then maybe it would be ok. But if a guy is driven to compete for championships the way most coaches seem to be, then ASU is tailor-made to be a high-stress environment, because being a contender every year like the Ohio State's of the world is not a reasonable expectation there.
 
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While we joke about being paid millions to not coach football, and while there are some who seem to appreciate that for what it is without stressing out about it (Orgeron), the main thing that makes a coaching job bad is the stress that it can cause. Frost just got fired from his dream job. He won them a national championship as a qb, and coached a school on a different tier to an undefeated season. The stress of his dream job seems to have undone him. Wherever he goes from here, what he's been through is worse imho.

If you can approach coaching like Orgeron did, and somehow get to the place where they pay you $17M to walk away, then great. But for most coaches, the stress is real. Some jobs produce more stress than others. Some jobs seem to produce stress for coaches that seemed calm, cool, collected, confident, and successful elsewhere. How does that happen?

I don't think there's any one answer for every coach and every job, but there are principles in play here that are the same for coaching as for any other profession. The first and most obvious principle here is the Peter Principle. Some guys who are great position coaches are promoted to being bad coordinators. Some great coordinators are promoted to being bad HCs. It happens. Any time you hold a job for which you are not qualified, there is stress. If you are completely comfortable with who you are and your limitations (Orgeron), great. But any illusions about what you should be able to accomplish cause stress.

But how does a guy who goes undefeated at one school turn into a stressed out mess who appears to have cracked under the pressure and flamed out at another school? It seems to me that the answer, sometimes, lies not with the coach, but with the school. Some schools have illusions about who and what they are. More to the point, they harbor illusions about what their coaches should be able to accomplish.

This is most tragic with programs like Nebraska, who not so long ago were on the top tier of the sport. But the sport has changed, and there may not be a place for them on the top tier anymore.

It's not that the requirements for the top tier have changed. It's that Nebraska's ability to meet those requirements changed.

We could probably debate what the requirements are forever. I'll just state what I think they are and then let it go. Debate away.
  • Administrative commitment to excellence - Check
  • Fully endowed scholarships - Check
  • Top-Level Facilities and the funding to keep them at the top level - Check
  • Multi-generational fan base for whom your team is a family tradition, not just a sport they follow - Check
  • EITHER: Access to truly elite-level recruits - This used to be a checkmark. Now, not so much.
  • OR: Membership in a conference where no one else has access to recruits better than what you get - At UCF, yes. At Corn, no
Could the right coach get Nebraska elite recruits? Maybe. But Scott Frost is certainly not a guy with the kind of charisma that would be necessary to do that. If you want to talk about whether it's even possible at Nebraska, debate away. In my opinion, the changing of the game has given access to the top-level recruits primarily to teams that reside in cities that are big enough to be attractive to recruits, but not big enough to have pro sports teams. It appears that hockey doesn't count, because Columbus checks that box pretty hard. Lincoln, not so much, for reasons that might be more about location than about size.

This brings us to Arizona State. I moved to Maricopa County in the late 80s. There were billboards for ASU football season tickets. That was as unimaginable in Columbus then as it is now. They do not have the multi-generational fan base, and that might be foundational to much else that is on that list. The point is, if ASU brings in a coach and asks him to be more than an occasional contender for the PAC-?? title, then that could be a high stress job. If they accept who they are and what they can reasonably expect of a coach, then maybe it would be ok. But if a guy is driven to compete for championships the way most coaches seem to be, then ASU is tailor-made to be a high-stress environment, because being a contender every year like the Ohio State's of the world is not a reasonable expectation there.

You make many valid points.
And I see Nebraska as a no win situation job, because their fans and admin still believe that its the 80s and 90s. Recruits don't care about their history, or who Tom Osborne is. They expect to compete for conference and national championships, when they're closer to a large G5 or below average P5 program on the field.
ASU on the other hand has no history, and is not pretentious enough to think they're higher than what they really are. Edwards' didn't lose his job based on his record, but more because of his recruiting sanctions, and then the brutal EMU loss, gave the admin the final reason to fire him. If he didn't have the recruiting sanctions, Edwards would still be employed by ASU.
Comparing both programs, on realistic expectations, ASU is a much more attractive job. AZ in the past 10yrs has a very good number of HS talent, that the right HC could keep a few at home. Then you have SOCal in close proximity as well. A HC that can become bowl eligible yearly, and pull off an occasional upset of a ranked team can keep their job for years at ASU. The HCs that have gotten canned, are the ones who have been very inconsistent, and became complacent, and then the losses piled up.
 
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ASU is predicted to go 7-5 or 6-6; which would qualify them for a bottom tier bowl; however, ......

Arizona State self-imposes bowl ban for 2023 season​

Arizona State will not play in a bowl game in 2023 after self-imposing a one-year bowl ban Sunday morning, a decision that acknowledges the severity of the evidence in the ongoing NCAA case against the school's football program.

Arizona State's decision comes amid an investigation that began during the tenure of former coach Herm Edwards, whose job with the Sun Devils ended three games into last season after an embarrassing loss to Eastern Michigan. The specter of the NCAA investigation into allegations of repeated and gratuitous recruiting violations has scattered many of the program's best players.

The heart of the investigation comes from a dossier of documents sent to the NCAA on May 31, 2021, that detailed a trove of recruiting violations, including persistent ignoring of the restrictions implemented during the COVID-19 recruiting dead period. The allegations from the dead period included the mother of a player purchasing tickets for travel to campus, staff members giving tours to up to a dozen recruits in vans when visitors were prohibited, and a position coach working out a prospect in a local park while he was in town and evaluating the video of the illicit workout in an offensive staff meeting.
 
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Arizona State receives probation, scholarship reductions in case stemming from NCAA recruiting violations

The NCAA's Committee on Infractions announced its penalties against Arizona State​

Arizona State will receive four years of probation, scholarship reductions and recruiting restrictions in connection with recruiting violations that occurred under former coach Herm Edwards, the NCAA Committee on Infractions announced Friday. Four former ASU staff members also received show-cause penalties ranging from 3-10 years.
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The penalties stem from allegations that prospects were brought in during the COVID-19 dead period. The NCAA's announcement also noted "recruiting inducements, impermissible tryouts and tampering" as part of the violations case.
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NCAA Committee on Infractions chief hearing officer Jason Leonard praised Arizona State for its "exemplary" cooperation in the case.
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conrined
 
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