Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[kn1f3party]

The problem with that scenario is, it's a professional system. Academics don't want musical conferences, given the teams are University-sponsored.

As has been beat to death in the playoff vs. BCS thread(s), if you don't like the way the mNC is won in CFB each year, too bad. Go follow the NFL.

There will be a medium at some point.

But I really don't like that rationale, "love it or leave it." When things aren't right, they need fixed. They may not go to your proposed version of affrimative action for major conferences, but they'll find a medium somewhere that will provide equity in the post-season while maintaining the academic element of conference affiliation.

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

The argument is about the equity of the postseason in football. I won't dispute their contributions to the conference in other arenas, but this marriage of the two is kind of ridiculous.

Not ridiculous. Reality. These are Universities and the athletes are (still) amatuers. These are not sporting franchises.

When things aren't right, they need fixed. They may not go to your proposed version of affrimative action for major conferences, but they'll find a medium somewhere that will provide equity in the post-season while maintaining the academic element of conference affiliation.

The need for 'fixing' is in the eye of the beholder. Besides that, you are most likely right in that some 'medium' will be achieved. I suspect the Boise States of the world will be left out in such a medium. Money talks and bullshit walks as they say. Too lazy to look, but how many tickets has Boise Sate sold to their BCS games?

 

[kn1f3party]

No, the argument for "equity" in the college football postseason is ridiculous, as is the premise that Boise, somehow, deserves a "chance."

I never said they deserve a chance, I have been saying that all teams that compete athletically in a league should inherently have the capability of winning the league.

Prejudice is prejudice. And that is what the current system is.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

The argument is about the equity of the postseason in football. I won't dispute their contributions to the conference in other arenas, but this marriage of the two is kind of ridiculous.



1) How does it do this exactly? The Pac-12 is the only one that regionally makes sense and academically they'll never be up to standard. Which begs the question, if they are classified as a FBS school, why should academics preclude their ability to compete for a championship.

2) This doesn't get you a shot at the national championship.

3) They're newcomers to the Mountain West. They've barely been a FBS school long enough to have any kind of history with any of these people. They aren't any kind of authority or influencer in their conference. Even still, it would take decades to see this to fruition, if not longer.

All I am saying, and what the debates are failing to adequately dispute, is:

If you belong to an athletic league, you should be able to compete for the championship of your athletic league.

It bewilders me that people think this is not the case, that teams should be a part of a league and never have a legitemate chance at competing for a championship.

It shouldn't take decades and they shouldn't have to jump through a mountain of hoops.

I think you don't understand, the NCAA isn't an athletic league, its a governing body. The Mountain West is a league.

They can compete for a Mountain West championship all they want... I don't know how old you are, but the BCS crowning of a "champion" is a very new thing. Teams used to just try to win their conference and would have to let the media and coaches decide who was "champion."

Why? Because its college football. Traditionally, schools which are in league with each other are that way because of academics, shared culture and relative proximity. BCS "championships" are products of TV and money.

And why shouldn't take years? Ohio State is a great program because it was great for years - because coaches, players, the University and the state of Ohio have all made an effort - through time, money and labor - to make it great for many, many years.

The idea that Boise State should have access to a "championship" because it is governed by the NCAA (one of hundreds of such schools) does not hold water.

Even if there was some logical reason for their de facto inclusion in some sort of all-ecompassing "league" championship, why WHY WHY WHY is this something that Ohio State fans or the B1G should care about AT ALL? Ohio State and the B1G have done tons of work to get to where they are as programs, conference, schools, etc. Let Boise do their homework to get their "chance." Who cares if it takes time? Not. Our. Problem.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I don't recall anyone arguing Ball State was competing for a National Title a couple years back when they entered the last week of the season 11-0 (maybe even 12-0, the ended up losing to Buffalo). I don't recall anyone saying they "deserved" a shot.

The plain fact is, there are significant differences between conferences. The WAC isn't as good as the B1G. The Sun Belt can't say it is as tough as the SEC. So, you're a great team in a shit conference. Take your conference title and shut the hell up, then.

 

[kn1f3party]

The need for 'fixing' is in the eye of the beholder. Besides that, you are most likely right in that some 'medium' will be achieved. I suspect the Boise States of the world will be left out in such a medium. Money talks and bull[Mark May] walks as they say. Too lazy to look, but how many tickets has Boise Sate sold to their BCS games?

I doubt this. Like it or not, we all need them. Where would we be without our ability to put Akron and Toledo on the schedule? In ticket sales alone we make something like $8M or $9M for playing these jokers. When the Boise States get left out we start splitting home and away games evenly. And like you said, bullshit walks and money talks.

So we use them to make some extra money, but world be damned if they get competitive.

The problem is, you can never predict when things will turn around drastically at one of those programs and then they're in the way.

 

[brodybuck21]

I think you don't understand, the NCAA isn't an athletic league, its a governing body. The Mountain West is a league.

They can compete for a Mountain West championship all they want... I don't know how old you are, but the BCS crowning of a "champion" is a very new thing. Teams used to just try to win their conference and would have to let the media and coaches decide who was "champion."

Why? Because its college football. Traditionally, schools which are in league with each other are that way because of academics, shared culture and relative proximity. BCS "championships" are products of TV and money.

And why shouldn't take years? Ohio State is a great program because it was great for years - because coaches, players, the University and the state of Ohio have all made an effort - through time, money and labor - to make it great for many, many years.

The idea that Boise State should have access to a "championship" because it is governed by the NCAA (one of hundres of such schools) does not hold water.

Even if there was some logical reason for their de facto inclusion in some sort of all-ecompassing "league" championship, why WHY WHY WHY is this something that Ohio State fans or the B1G should care about AT ALL? Ohio State and the B1G have done tons of work to get to where they are as programs, conference, schools, etc. Let Boise do their homework to get their "chance." Who cares if it takes time? Not. Our. Problem.

for some reason I read this like it was said by the asian guy from the hangover....

 

[LovelandBuckeye]

1) How does it do this exactly? The Pac-12 is the only one that regionally makes sense and academically they'll never be up to standard. Which begs the question, if they are classified as a FBS school, why should academics preclude their ability to compete for a championship. It is not the damn NFL! If they are a bunch of fucking retards that drive trucks they sure as hell don't belong next to places of HIGHER LEARNING.

2) This doesn't get you a shot at the national championship. No, but they can then do whatever they want. If they are so good maybe they can come up with some crazy deal like Notre Dame has with the BCS.

3) They're newcomers to the Mountain West. They've barely been a FBS school long enough to have any kind of history with any of these people. They aren't any kind of authority or influencer in their conference. Even still, it would take decades to see this to fruition, if not longer. Yes, but they are the big dogs in that cage. Throw some damn weight around like Tejas.

All I am saying, and what the debates are failing to adequately dispute, is:

If you belong to an athletic league, you should be able to compete for the championship of your athletic league.

It bewilders me that people think this is not the case, that teams should be a part of a league and never have a legitemate chance at competing for a championship.

It shouldn't take decades and they shouldn't have to jump through a mountain of hoops.

First, turn-in your Ohio State mancard for pushing such a dumb argument. I think the Bengals should have a shot at the Super Bowl again because their owner is obviously inferior to [ input NFL team here ].

Second, everyone is making valid point but you are set in your ways so you won't acknowledge their point of view.

Third,

 

[DallasHusker]

1) How does it do this exactly? The Pac-12 is the only one that regionally makes sense and academically they'll never be up to standard. Which begs the question, if they are classified as a FBS school, why should academics preclude their ability to compete for a championship.

If you belong to an athletic league, you should be able to compete for the championship of your athletic league.

One more time, for emphasis:

• Academics should preclude their ability to compete for a national championship, because they're able to recruit from a large pool of players who are academically ineligible at BCS schools, therefore they really shouldn't be competing with those schools, for the most part.
• They don't just belong to an "athletic league", that's the NFL. They belong to a leaque of Universities, who's primary focus is ACADEMICS. If they were able to someday join a BCS conference, their competitiveness would drop dramatically, and not just because their competition would be tougher, but also because they couldn't continue to recruit the same players!

This isn't rocket science! They better listen to Delany and the rest of the BCS Commissioner's, because they've pushed the system about as far as they can, before the BCS makes a radical change and excludes them entirely.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I think you don't understand, the NCAA isn't an athletic league, its a governing body. The Mountain West is a league.

They can compete for a Mountain West championship all they want... I don't know how old you are, but the BCS crowning of a "champion" is a very new thing. Teams used to just try to win their conference and would have to let the media and coaches decide who was "champion."

Why? Because its college football. Traditionally, schools which are in league with each other are that way because of academics, shared culture and relative proximity. BCS "championships" are products of TV and money.

And why shouldn't take years? Ohio State is a great program because it was great for years - because coaches, players, the University and the state of Ohio have all made an effort - through time, money and labor - to make it great for many, many years.

The idea that Boise State should have access to a "championship" because it is governed by the NCAA (one of hundres of such schools) does not hold water.

Even if there was some logical reason for their de facto inclusion in some sort of all-ecompassing "league" championship, why WHY WHY WHY is this something that Ohio State fans or the B1G should care about AT ALL? Ohio State and the B1G have done tons of work to get to where they are as programs, conference, schools, etc. Let Boise do their homework to get their "chance." Who cares if it takes time? Not. Our. Problem.

Sorta piling on to what you've said -

It's not Boise's fault that it doesn't have a 100 year history of football. But, it is their reality. No one owes them anything. It's called paying your dues. Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Oklahoma.. Texas, Nebraska, LSU.. etc.. these schools have been investing in football for over a century. They have built, and therefore earned, payouts.

Boise wants to suck on the same tit. I get that they want it. But, they haven't earned it.

Fuck em.

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

I doubt this. Like it or not, we all need them. Where would we be without our ability to put Akron and Toledo on the schedule? In ticket sales alone we make something like $8M or $9M for playing these jokers. When the Boise States get left out we start splitting home and away games evenly. And like you said, bull[Mark May] walks and money talks.

So we use them to make some extra money, but world be damned if they get competitive.

The problem is, you can never predict when things will turn around drastically at one of those programs and then they're in the way.

You got that backwards, dog. Give me a B1G round robin FB schedule any day of the week. We don't 'need' the MAC games. The MAC needs the B1G games. Sure, we like the tune-up nature of those games, but we don't 'need' them.

 

[LovelandBuckeye]

Boise wants to suck on the same tit. I get that they want it. But, they haven't earned it.

[censored] em.

I was going to say some shit like this but you must be a real Shakespeare. I will just copy your great words of wisdom. Thank you my scholarly friend!

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

Boise wants to suck on the same tit.

I like it when you talk dirty.

 

[LovelandBuckeye]

Somewhat back on topic.

I know it would never happen but would Kentucky bring to the B1G if anything?

I ask because as I was in the Louisville "International" Airport I overheard a really fucking large UK female fan say something to this extent:

We got our asses kicked this week and we will probably get our asses kicked next week! But you play in the $EC and you would never win a game!

Are they so dedicated to getting their asses kicked or do they think they could win the B1G every year? It would be interesting to watch. B-Ball would be fun watching them actually have competition almost every B1G game.

 

[kn1f3party]

Alright, this has gone far enough.

Nothing personal against anyone else here. I don't think we're as far off as it might seem at first glance in our opinions. We are all just perceiving the context in different ways: past body of work, present worthiness, future capability, etc.

This is just one of those things that is 100% about perception. None of us are probably right and whatever these clowns will come up with next will have us bickering again.

I certainly don't want to start feuds and rivalries over something so trivial, especially against fellow Buckeye fans in a season where we're going to need to stick together.

So we'll agree to disagree and get back to conference realignment news and less opinion.

Go Bucks, beat Sparty!