Big Ten Conference Divisions

[muffler dragon]

FWIW, it seems as though the Big Ten discussions are somewhat similar to what I'm hearing regarding play in the Pac 10/12.

Oregon and Oregon State are the two biggest rivals of each other. (And, yes, I realize that neither is perennial powerhouse in the Pac 10) The word that was spoken on the radio about this a week or so ago was splitting the two into different divisions, having them play each other each year, but having the game earlier in the season. The two big disappointments expressed by fans were such: a) for Oregon, the rivalry with Washington could very well disappear and b) the fans of both teams really like having the game after Thanksgiving.

What I'm, ultimately, gleaning from expansion talk is that there are definitely going to be sacrifices. I guess it's just a matter of taking the road that invokes the least (in the grand scheme of things) while accepting the larger picture.

 

[cincibuck]

I personally am not insisting that we have it indoors either, but from a revenue standpoint it would probably be smarter, especially if we want it to be played at night.

I don't believe a CCG game can't fill the 'shoe, the big house or the beaver ().Rain or snow, day or night, if the conference can't fill an outdoor stadium because of weather, then they probably can't fill an indoor site either.

 

[cincibuck]

OSU/UM-Group A

PSU/UN-Group B

Then the next in line to be split up are Iowa/Wisconsin

Then Illinois/MSU

Minnesota/Northwestern

Indiana/Purdue

I think the teams I just bundled together are almost equal and you just split them up into seperate divisions. If I had my way I'd be this

Division A
OSU
UM
Iowa
MSU
Northwestern
Indiana

Division B
PSU
UN
Wisconsin
Illinois
Minnesota
Purdue

Although I BET they make it East/West alignment.

If I'm Iowa I want nothing to do with that alignment. It's going to be a real bare knuckle fight as the ADs try and get an alignment all can agree on.

 

[Jaxbuck]

If I'm Iowa I want nothing to do with that alignment. It's going to be a real bare knuckle fight as the ADs try and get an alignment all can agree on.

If you are Iowa nobody gives a shit what you think.

All seriousness I agree, Iowa needs to be on the Nebraska side of the ledger. In that scenario above I'd swap Iowa and Purdue and off the top of my head you keep most of the existing rivalries.

 

[Emperor Brutus]

The relevant teams records compared to one another since Penn State joined:

Penn State vs. Wisconsin

Penn State: Head to Head draw, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, and Purdue

Illinois, 11-2, 85%
Indiana, 13-0, 100%
Iowa, 5-8, 38%
Michigan, 5-10, 33%
Michigan State, 13-4, 76%
Minnesota, 7-4, 64%
Northwestern, 10-3, 77%
Ohio State, 6-11, 35%
Purdue, 10-2, 83%
Wisconsin, 6-6, 50%

Wisconsin: Head to Head draw, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota,

Illinois 10-3-1 75%
Indiana 11-2 85%
Iowa 7-8 47%
Michigan 5-8 38%
Michigan State 9-4 69%
Minnesota 13-4 76%
Northwestern 7-6 54%
Ohio State 4-8-1 35%
Penn State 6-6 50%
Purdue 8-4-1 65%

Penn State vs. Iowa

Penn State: Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, and Purdue

Illinois 11-2 85%
Indiana 13-0 100%
Iowa 5-8 38%
Michigan 5-10 33%
Michigan State 13-4 76%
Minnesota 7-4 64%
Northwestern 10-3 77%
Ohio State 6-11 35%
Purdue 10-2 83%
Wisconsin 6-6 50%

Iowa: Head to head winner, Minnesota, Wisconsin

Illinois 8-6 57%
Indiana 8-7 53%
Michigan 3-8 27%
Michigan State 8-5 62%
Minnesota 13-4 76%
Northwestern 7-8 47%
Ohio State 1-10 9%
Penn State 8-5 62%
Purdue 7-4-1 63%
Wisconsin 8-7 54%

Michigan vs. Wisconsin

Michigan: Head to Head winner, Indiana, Iowa, Minnisota, Northwestern, Ohio State, Penn State, and Purdue

Illinois 9-4 69%
Indiana 11-0 100%
Iowa 8-3 73%
Michigan State 11-6 65%
Minnesota 13-1 93%
Northwestern 8-4 67%
Ohio State 7-10 41%
Penn State 10-5 67%
Purdue 9-4 69%
Wisconsin 8-5 62%

Wisconsin: Illinois, Michigan State

Illinois 10-3-1 75%
Indiana 11-2 85%
Iowa 7-8 47%
Michigan 5-8 38%
Michigan State 9-4 69%
Minnesota 13-4 76%
Northwestern 7-6 54%
Ohio State 4-8-1 35%
Penn State 6-6 50%
Purdue 8-4-1 65%

Michigan vs. Iowa

Michigan: Head to Head winner Illinois, Indiana, Michigan State, Minnesota, Northwestern, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, and Wisconsin

Illinois 9-4 69%
Indiana 11-0 100%
Iowa 8-3 73%
Michigan State 11-6 65%
Minnesota 13-1 93%
Northwestern 8-4 67%
Ohio State 7-10 41%
Penn State 10-5 67%
Purdue 9-4 69%
Wisconsin 8-5 62%

Iowa: NONE

Illinois 8-6 57%
Indiana 8-7 53%
Michigan 3-8 27%
Michigan State 8-5 62%
Minnesota 13-4 76%
Northwestern 7-8 47%
Ohio State 1-10 9%
Penn State 8-5 62%
Purdue 7-4-1 63%
Wisconsin 8-7 54%

Ohio State vs. Who Cares

Illinois 11-4 73%
Indiana 13-0 100%
Iowa 10-1 90%
Michigan 10-7 59%
Michigan State 10-2 83%
Minnesota 12-1 92%
Northwestern 11-1 92%
Penn State 11-6 65%
Purdue 10-3 77%
Wisconsin 8-4-1 65%

Ohio State has a winning record against all Big Ten opponents since Penn State has joined. Sure some other teams have better records against certain teams, but everyone else still has a losing record to somebody.

 

[jwinslow]

Ruining rivalries based on assumptions about prestige and future greatness is a huge mistake. Rivalries are the lifeblood of the big ten and sacrificing classic matchups like OSU-PSU based on a guess is a disastrous gamble. When the b12 formed their divisions, who would have dreamed that Colorado & Kansas State would become terrible teams and that Nebraska would be behind 2-3 b12 south programs for many years?

I also take issue with the notion that an east-west split is severely unbalanced. I don't think it is that simple.

Sure the west would have 3 top programs, but their depth teams are pretty terrible, and 2 of the 3 "top" teams are extremely unreliable right now. PSU is only very good every 3 years and only scrape by as champions when UM stinks and OSU doesn't have a good passer.

What if Harbaugh doesn't fix UM right away, or at all? What if PSU finds it even more difficult to win every three years now that another powerhouse & a CCG stand in their way to a big ten title? What if JoePa loses his ring of power and actually passes on?

Tier 1: Neb | OSU

Tier 2: Wisc, ND | PSU, UM (they won't be tier one when this thing starts)

Tier 3: IOW, MIZ | _____

Tier 4: ILL, NW | MSU, PUR, MD, RUT

Tier 5: MIN | IU

If we want to expand East into NYC & DC, then PSU needs to be in the East. JoePa will throw a fit if they finally expand east and he's in the west

 

[BB73]

Ruining rivalries based on assumptions about prestige and future greatness is a huge mistake. Rivalries are the lifeblood of the big ten and sacrificing classic matchups like OSU-PSU based on a guess is a disastrous gamble. When the b12 formed their divisions, who would have dreamed that Colorado & Kansas State would become terrible teams and that Nebraska would be behind 2-3 b12 south programs for many years?

I also take issue with the notion that an east-west split is severely unbalanced. I don't think it is that simple.

Sure the west would have 3 top programs, but their depth teams are pretty terrible, and 2 of the 3 "top" teams are extremely unreliable right now. PSU is only very good every 3 years and only scrape by as champions when UM stinks and OSU doesn't have a good passer.

What if Harbaugh doesn't fix UM right away, or at all? What if PSU finds it even more difficult to win every three years now that another powerhouse & a CCG stand in their way to a big ten title? What if JoePa loses his ring of power and actually passes on?

Tier 1: Neb | OSU

Tier 2: Wisc, ND | PSU, UM (they won't be tier one when this thing starts)

Tier 3: IOW, MIZ | _____

Tier 4: ILL, NW | MSU, PUR, MD, RUT

Tier 5: MIN | IU

If we want to expand East into NYC & DC, then PSU needs to be in the East. JoePa will throw a fit if they finally expand east and he's in the west

History would have indicated that Kansas State would not be a lasting power. When the Big XII formed in the mid-90s, they had been a decent team for a few years under Snyder, but that weren't far removed from only winning a single game from 1987 through 1989. At that point (1989), they probably had the worst football history of any team that ended up in any of the 6 AQ Conferences when the BCS was formed in 1998. Although Rutgers, Wake Forest and Temple (who was in the Big East at the time) would also have been in that discussion.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Yeah, KSU was a special kind of dreadful.

 

[DallasHusker]

Ruining rivalries based on assumptions about prestige and future greatness is a huge mistake. Rivalries are the lifeblood of the big ten and sacrificing classic matchups like OSU-PSU based on a guess is a disastrous gamble. When the b12 formed their divisions, who would have dreamed that Colorado & Kansas State would become terrible teams and that Nebraska would be behind 2-3 b12 south programs for many years?

I also take issue with the notion that an east-west split is severely unbalanced. I don't think it is that simple.

Sure the west would have 3 top programs, but their depth teams are pretty terrible, and 2 of the 3 "top" teams are extremely unreliable right now. PSU is only very good every 3 years and only scrape by as champions when UM stinks and OSU doesn't have a good passer.

What if Harbaugh doesn't fix UM right away, or at all? What if PSU finds it even more difficult to win every three years now that another powerhouse & a CCG stand in their way to a big ten title? What if JoePa loses his ring of power and actually passes on?

Tier 1: Neb | OSU

Tier 2: Wisc, ND | PSU, UM (they won't be tier one when this thing starts)

Tier 3: IOW, MIZ | _____

Tier 4: ILL, NW | MSU, PUR, MD, RUT

Tier 5: MIN | IU

If we want to expand East into NYC & DC, then PSU needs to be in the East. JoePa will throw a fit if they finally expand east and he's in the west

Personally, I'm betting that Harbaugh (the Stanford head coach!) can't fix UM at all. :tongue2: Or is this inside info about soon-to-be firings/hirings as UM head coach?!?!

 

[BB73]

Personally, I'm betting that Harbaugh (the Stanford head coach!) can't fix UM at all. :tongue2: Or is this inside info about soon-to-be firings/hirings as UM head coach?!?!

Speculating on what will happen up there is always fair game around BP.

2011.TSUN.Opener

 

[Buckeye86]

Rittenburg talks about Ohio State and Michigan being in different divisions.


link

As you know, my Big Ten divisions proposal keeps archrivals Michigan and Ohio State in the same division. Most proposals do the same thing.

Maybe we all need to think outside the box.

Momentum is building for the Wolverines and Buckeyes to be on opposite sides of the league when the division dust settles, likely later this month.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

I think I could get behind some new tradition in regard to The Game.

Granted I am a young guy who, while raised on Ohio State football, wasn't around for the 10 Year War or the end of the Cooper Era where The Game was something other than the last game of the season that the good guys almost always won, but if Ohio State and Michigan were place in different divisions split along north/south boundaries what would that MEAN?

The divisions would look like this:

North:
Michigan 109,000 94-42 (.691)
Michigan State 75,000 59-76-1 (.438)
Northwestern 49,000 59-77 (.434)
Iowa 71,000 71-64-1 (.526)
Wisconsin 80,000 80-53-3 (.599)
Minnesota 51,000 44-92 (.324)

Avg. Capacity: 72,500
Avg. W Pct.: .502


South:
Ohio State 102,000 106-29-1 (.783)
Penn State 107,000 86-50 (.632)
Nebraska 81,000 97-37 (.724)
Indiana 52,000 33-103 (.243)
Purdue 62,500 63-70-3 (.474)
Illinois 70,000 45-90-1 (.335)

Avg. Capacity: 79,000
Avg. W Pct.: .531


Thinking in terms of change and in terms of fostering new traditions, this would actually be a very interesting alignment. Although it feels a little bit like the BigXII in terms of division weight, we all know it wasn't simply the divisions that caused all those issues. It could help jump-start the inevitable Ohio State/Nebraska rivalry while still catering to the more prominent rivalries (OSU/Ill, OSU/PSU, Indy/Purdue, Wisky/Minn, etc.)

If there was ever a rivalry that could survive and even flourish through massive changes it's The Game. Now, you could compare the situation to Oklahoma/Nebraska a few decades back, but it seems to me as if that rivalry was a fabricated one more than one that just naturally happened.

Now, imagine if The Game was the BigTen opener for both teams each year.

While it would still have major implications on who wins the BigTen and if either team can make a run for the NC, it would no longer be the game that immediately dashed ALL hopes for the loser. And while I don't like to humor the thought that Michigan ever wins one of these match-ups, it WILL happen again someday in the very distant future. I would LOVE in situations like for tOSU to have an opportunity to return to the field 2 months later to exact revenge.

Speaking of that, imagine the scenarios where these two teams meet up AGAIN in the CCG. There would be plenty of time between games for each team to come into their own and for it to be a true rematch (one that I feel people would actually want to see).

I'm a firm believe that nothing can "cheapen" this rivalry. If anything, separate divisions could strengthen it. With tSUN, Wisky and Iowa being the top dogs in the North and tOSU, Neb and PSU being the top dogs in the South I could see tOSU and tSUN meeting in the CCG fairly often.

I envision PSU becoming irrelevant for a long time after JoPa makes his exit and Iowa becoming one of the top 4 on a regular basis. If the Iowa/Neb rivalry becomes as big of a thing as people seem to expect, wouldn't it be fantastic for the BigTen if these 4 teams were the top dogs year in year out? It would be comparable to years where Alabama/Auburn/Florida/Georgia are all playing well in the SEC or Oklahoma/Texas/Mizzou/Kansas are all playing well in the BigXII.

Now, while I'm pretty sure this is NOT the way Delany and Co. are going to handle business. I could imagine a world where Ohio State and Michigan being in different divisions isn't the end of the world as much as it is the end of an era.

 

[BB73]

I was thinking about a North-South split also. BTW, your North-South split was actually mentioned by Mili in the first post of this thread.

But if they go North-South, I'd switch Iowa and Penn State for balance. TSUN shouldn't be the only one of the 4 historical top-10 teams in the North division.

Plus it's geographically correct. Iowa City is 41.39 in latitude, State College is 40.79. Columbus is 40.0, Lincoln is 40.50, West Lafayette is 40.46, Champaign is 40.12.

edit - it's geographically incorrect, as the bigger numbers are father north.

North:
TSUN
Sparty
Minny
NW'ern
Penn St
Wiscy

South:
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Nebraska
tOSU
Purdue

I realize that JWins and BN27 will have differing opinions about eliminating the annual tOSU-PSU game in that scenario. :tongue2:

 

[Emperor Brutus]

Big Ten decision on division alignment coming in next 30 days - Campus Rivalry: College Football & Basketball News, Recruiting, Game Picks, and More - USATODAY.com

The Big Ten is closing on an announcement of its football divisions to accommodate its new 12-team league with the addition of Nebraska. Speaking on the Huskers Sports Network, commissioner Jim Delany said a final decision on the split will come in the next 30 days.


Speculation was that there would be an east-west alignment in the divisions, but geography will not play the biggest role. The bigger motivation is to ensure competitive balance and that the traditional rivalries of the conference are maintained.

Penn State: Big Ten Penn State football - mcall.com

Big Ten Conference realignment should be finalized within a month, and geography won't be the primary criterion for divisional breakdowns, Penn State athletic director Tim Curley said Thursday.


In the middle of a two-day tour to promote the Big Ten Network, Curley said that the conference will announce the new, 12-team alignment in September "pending any kind of craziness." He also said that further expansion discussions are on hold for this year but likely will resurface next spring or summer.

 

[Muck]

Got bored so I threw together the trending of the Big 4 + 2...

Poly...

Linear...