Bitching about the 2004 Season

[MililaniBuckeye]

I think that maybe the shift to a "lighter, more athletic" offensive line has gone Hiroshima right in our faces. Hopefully the kids we have in the recruiting pipeline will turn out to be road-grading, smash-mouth, pancaking, run-blocking linemen. If we can establish a dominating running game, then everything will fall into place. You can't have a devastating running game with "light and nimble" linemen...you need big-assed, huge, nimble linemen, ala Gallery. There's no reason for us to have to resort to fancy shit near our opponent's goal line...we should be able to blast it in even if they stack the line with all 11 defenders.

 

[tibor75]

JT's offensive line recruiting has been mediocre at best. Horrible compared to his recuiting of other positions like DL, LB, CB/S. Nick Mangold is our best OL. He wouldn't even see the field from 1995-98.

 

[DesertBuckeye]

Personally, I think it is high time that we get a top flight running back in here. I think Pittman has potential, but we need to be bringing in a bluechipper or two each year as a running back. It amazes me that we haven't (save for Drushawn & MoC). This weakness in our recruiting continues to amaze me. We can't land a bluechip WR like Dwayne Jarrett because Petey tells him all we do is run the ball...if that's true, then why aren't the Adrian Peterson types beating down our door?

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

We can't land a bluechip WR like Dwayne Jarrett because Petey tells him all we do is run the ball...if that's true, then why aren't the Adrian Peterson types beating down our door?

because nobody wanted to be behind clarett or 2 seniors.

do you think its realistic to get a blue chip RB EVERY YEAR?

 

[slickman]

I agree 1000% with the theme of this thread which seems to be popping up like wildfire everywhere. Another point I'd like to add is that we are initiating our plays at such a snail's pace.

The thing I always read about the Miami Hurricanes is that they are always practicing really fast- so that they play fast. Now I know they haven't had much success throwing the ball this year, but they still have quite a stable of talent in the backfield. Quad Hill would probably be our starting TB here and there, he is average, can block and has good hands so they've created an FB spot for him to be on the field all the time as a utility type guy (not like JIM JENSON, either- although he was fun to watch).

That's just it. This play action passing on 3rd and long is for the birds. Our runs that look like those plays always lose us yards. Zwick turning his back on the Defense even for a second just seems like a bad idea from the get go. I prefer the quick drop back- or shotgun (Zwick needs to run the ropes- a lot- to get his chop down- you gotta take 7 steps back like you mean it!) with a delayed draw-fake. Get the DB's and LB's sucked in late in the action with less time to recover. We have to throw it on 3rd and short, so why would play action passing ever work?

Like as has been mentioned, we need to spread 'em and misdirect. Kind of treat our opponents like a girl we've brought home from the bars on the first night of courtship (ok, that is crude, but- thought readers might relate). And definitely, definitely, definitely, we have to play much faster. We gotta move the ball around and get everybody involved. Santonio can get his ten grabs, so long as everyone else gets at least four. How sick is 45-50 attempts? I think we score lotsa points with Zwick seeing the field and the pace as speedy. We are playing way, way, way slow in the backfield and at the point of "attack".

My apologies if I offended- it was meant in good humor.

 

[StoRMinBrutus]

JT's offensive line recruiting has been mediocre at best. Horrible compared to his recuiting of other positions like DL, LB, CB/S. Nick Mangold is our best OL. He wouldn't even see the field from 1995-98.

Does that include these past two years (including '05)? I thought that
Kyle Mitchum, Ben Person, Steve Rehring,and John Skinner in '04, and then Alex Boone, Jim Cordle, Kevin Bemoll and maybe Taz or Doering (in '05), were pretty good recruits for O-linemen ? Maybe it started off slow but it sure did pick up recently. We shall see how they fare under this coaching style. Not saying that the present O-line is doing well. Just that the recruiting at that position seems to have picked up.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Does that include these past two years (including '05)? I thought that Kyle Mitchum, Ben Person, Steve Rehring,and John Skinner in '04, and then Alex Boone, Jim Cordle, Kevin Bemoll and maybe Taz or Doering (in '05), were pretty good recruits for O-linemen ? Maybe it started off slow but it sure did pick up recently. We shall see how they fare under this coaching style. Not saying that the present O-line is doing well. Just that the recruiting at that position seems to have picked up.

Just consider the source...tibor does nothing but bad mouth everything about the team. He's extra moody lately because his goat cut him off...

 

[OSU Rob]

i agree that we need to see how these new 4/5 star OL recruits turn out like Mitchum, Person, Skinner, Boone, Cordle... to best judge whether it is the talent we're bringing in or the coaching that is at fault. However, as to the original offensive scheme question, I don't understand why people think JT has "always" had this conservative tresselball strategy. At YSU I'm pretty sure his teams had no problems putting points on the board. Its just here at OSU since MoC that we've seen all these offensive struggles.

 

[Clarity]

i agree that we need to see how these new 4/5 star OL recruits turn out like Mitchum, Person, Skinner, Boone, Cordle... to best judge whether it is the talent we're bringing in or the coaching that is at fault. However, as to the original offensive scheme question, I don't understand why people think JT has "always" had this conservative tresselball strategy. At YSU I'm pretty sure his teams had no problems putting points on the board. Its just here at OSU since MoC that we've seen all these offensive struggles.

For the purposes of this post, I'm calling "mistake-free, opportunistic offenses" and "conservative offenses" the same thing.

Conservative offenses can put a lot of points on the board. All too often people confuse conservative efficient offense with ineffective poorly executed offense. We've seen more of the latter than we have the former, but the average fan seems to lump it all together. Particularly when they want to rail against JT and/or his approach. It pollutes their entire argument, but generally speaking that's going a little deeper than they care to.

Back to the original point, my understanding is certainly that the "Tresselisms" are absolutely a career approach.

 

[DesertBuckeye]

because nobody wanted to be behind clarett or 2 seniors.

do you think its realistic to get a blue chip RB EVERY YEAR?

Between tailback & fullback I don't think that is terribly unrealistic. I can understand how MoC would scare off a bluechipper looking for early playing time but it was pretty clear he wasn't coming back with plenty of time left in the recruiting season...and as far as Lydell and Mo Hall...show the recruit some tape...that should allay those fears.

Also, I have to echo the sentiments of storminbrutus...the last couple of years have been pretty good (at least on paper) OL recruiting-wise...we just need to keep that trend going for a few more years and we'll be in great shape on the line talentwise. They just need an injection of a meanstreak that'll help them blow guys off line.

 

[AKAK]

Conservative offenses can put a lot of points on the board. All too often people confuse conservative efficient offense with ineffective poorly executed offense. We've seen more of the latter than we have the former, but the average fan seems to lump it all together. Particularly when they want to rail against JT and/or his approach. It pollutes their entire argument, but generally speaking that's going a little deeper than they care to.

I do believe we did throw the ball some 38 times Saturday....

The only issue I have... outside of what I'm coming to believe is a serious execution problem on the OL... Is the predictabilty of our Runs and Passes.

How many times did we throw on First Down? And then how many times did we throw on First down befroe the 4th quarter?

All I really want to see is an attempt for the playcalling to keep the defense off balance... I don't want to get into specific plays... because all the formations are there... (Its not like we're Nebraska... well... before this year.. and its I-back left and I-back right and forget trying to throw)

Start mixing it up some... and I'll be happy.

 

[KillerNut]

I think that maybe the shift to a "lighter, more athletic" offensive line has gone Hiroshima right in our faces. Hopefully the kids we have in the recruiting pipeline will turn out to be road-grading, smash-mouth, pancaking, run-blocking linemen. If we can establish a dominating running game, then everything will fall into place. You can't have a devastating running game with "light and nimble" linemen...you need big-assed, huge, nimble linemen, ala Gallery. There's no reason for us to have to resort to fancy shit near our opponent's goal line...we should be able to blast it in even if they stack the line with all 11 defenders.

I think it is more to do with style than tallent. I think that going the route of the Denver Bronco O-Line is a smart move. Just because the linemen aren't big fat slow sloppy pigs doesn't mean they shouldnn't be able to move defenders all over the place. Gallery, Pace, those guys are exceptional, but I would say that there quickness, and nasty "I am going to pancake you" style and attitude has more to do with their success than mere size. I do think that coaching is an issue as has been mentioned in several other threads, when it comes to the offensive line, the shift it the style athlete we are looking for I dont think is as big of deal. Have we gone a little extreme with small? Maybe but if you look at the Minnesota's and scUM's of the world, there linemen are big, but not fat.

 

[DiHard]

is it time for you to admit you were a pigheaded fool on all issues regarding dustin fox???

hey ThinSkinNut.....my little jab pissed you off enough to give me an anonymous red chicklet?? get a sack and at least sign it......

from anonymous (killer):"This has absolutely nothing to do with what is being discussed. Get a life!"

 

[BB73]

He (Tibor)'s extra moody lately because his goat cut him off...

Is this why when somebody on a team messes up they're called a 'goat'?

I never realized just how terrible an insult it was!!!

 

[Piney]

The only issue I have... outside of what I'm coming to believe is a serious execution problem on the OL... Is the predictabilty of our Runs and Passes.

How many times did we throw on First Down? And then how many times did we throw on First down befroe the 4th quarter?

Start mixing it up some... and I'll be happy.

It is just not how often we run and how often we pass, it also comes down to the formations we do that out of. Really does a pass on first down seem more of a surprise when we are in the Shotgun Formation???

In my opinion this is THE biggest problem with our offense. We basically announce by each formation that we plan on running or passing. Admit it... you see a certain formation and you know what is going to happen. If we can see it, imagine what the coached defense is thinking?

By my count we have handed off to the running back ONCE out of the shotgun formation. Then when we do that single back bubble 2 TE formation we run about 80% of the time. That means that every time you run you have 8-9 in the box and then every time you pass they know it. And as everyone knows... knowing is half the battle.

What needs to be done is to find a formation that we can run & pass equally out of. Or at least be a 60/40 mix that keeps the defense guessing. This might at least start hiding the execution problems on the OL, this way if one guy misses a block it does not become an automatic loss, but maybe that block only let's us gain 2-3 yards instead.

Just some observations by a first time poster here...