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Cleveland Browns (2018 Season The NFL is Sorry)

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AKAK said:
Honestly, given the alternatives, I stick with Williams and Kitchens... I'm not sure it's gonna get you past one playoff win... (But given the trajectory of the rest of the North, it might be one playoff win after a bye. Bengals are dead, the Steelers are old and this nifty new look Ravens are buried once they get Jackson killed - it won't be long) but the defense is already built to force turnovers and Kitchens plus Mayfield seem like the right sort of high risk high reward match on offense. With just enough punch you in the mouth ground game to make it work.

But it's more than scheme, these guys have - for lack of a better term - the right ethos for Cleveland and their fans, they want to see naked aggression. They play hard as fuck, they are finally fun to watch, the have the right amount of talent and trash talkers to be loveable... And in a game that didn't matter to them against a team that needed to win - with a physical veteran defense - they came out and threw haymakers till the end, and flat out played well enough in the second half to win. Get a couple more guys and they can overcome shitty calls on the road.. I cant even believe I'm typing that. If they really think Williams personality is an issue long term, ok. But I think his guys love to play for him, he handles issues privately, doesn't throw his guys under the bus and they go out and get after it. And with all that they play much more disciplined football that before. This is entertainment, and this is fun as hell to watch.

Usually you get a new coach so you can turn things around, there's nothing to turn around, this is a playoff team right now.
Click to expand...

This is what I posted about a few pages ago. Right when the Browns find themselves tasting some success, they do something (like Hire McCarthy, Gase, etc etc) to fuck it up.

Dorsey has some credit with his drafting of Baker and Ward, but the man isn't infallible. We've seen coaches shown the door before just because the GM wanted "his guys". If they've already reached out to McCarthy, and Dorsey
seems to lock into his personnel early (Baker being an example) then what good will has been earned over the last 8 weeks really feels a bit tarnished.

Like you said, the current coaches seem to fit well with this team and city. For all the shit we give Williams about his attitude, the guy has really dialed it back quite a bit since taking over. And Kitch was a rookie play caller that stepped in and made a pathetic looking team a potential playoff contender. How often does that even happen?!?!
 
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AKAK said:
Honestly, given the alternatives, I stick with Williams and Kitchens... I'm not sure it's gonna get you past one playoff win... (But given the trajectory of the rest of the North, it might be one playoff win after a bye. Bengals are dead, the Steelers are old and this nifty new look Ravens are buried once they get Jackson killed - it won't be long) but the defense is already built to force turnovers and Kitchens plus Mayfield seem like the right sort of high risk high reward match on offense. With just enough punch you in the mouth ground game to make it work.

But it's more than scheme, these guys have - for lack of a better term - the right ethos for Cleveland and their fans, they want to see naked aggression. They play hard as fuck, they are finally fun to watch, the have the right amount of talent and trash talkers to be loveable... And in a game that didn't matter to them against a team that needed to win - with a physical veteran defense - they came out and threw haymakers till the end, and flat out played well enough in the second half to win. Get a couple more guys and they can overcome shitty calls on the road.. I cant even believe I'm typing that. If they really think Williams personality is an issue long term, ok. But I think his guys love to play for him, he handles issues privately, doesn't throw his guys under the bus and they go out and get after it. And with all that they play much more disciplined football that before. This is entertainment, and this is fun as hell to watch.

Usually you get a new coach so you can turn things around, there's nothing to turn around, this is a playoff team right now.
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Like Like Like Like Like Like especially, as you said, given the alternatives Like Like Like Like Like Like

You would think that they would be able to handle Williams personality to be in the playoffs next season.
 
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Honestly, it would not bother me greatly if Williams was not given the HC position but if they lose Kitchens I am going to have a big problem with Jimmy and Dee. I would almost prefer them making Kitchens the HC before any of the others that have been mentioned.

I guess the one thing that concerns me about Williams is that his son is the DC. Now I am not sure that is a good thing because if the defense starts going a little South that is sort of a family affair and now it would be handled might be a little difficult.

Give me Dawg Pound and call it a day.
 
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Buckeneye said:
This is what I posted about a few pages ago. Right when the Browns find themselves tasting some success, they do something (like Hire McCarthy, Gase, etc etc) to fuck it up.

Dorsey has some credit with his drafting of Baker and Ward, but the man isn't infallible. We've seen coaches shown the door before just because the GM wanted "his guys". If they've already reached out to McCarthy, and Dorsey
seems to lock into his personnel early (Baker being an example) then what good will has been earned over the last 8 weeks really feels a bit tarnished.

Like you said, the current coaches seem to fit well with this team and city. For all the shit we give Williams about his attitude, the guy has really dialed it back quite a bit since taking over. And Kitch was a rookie play caller that stepped in and made a pathetic looking team a potential playoff contender. How often does that even happen?!?!
Click to expand...
Over the last, 6-7 years... I found it hard to justify burning the middle of my Sunday watching these idiots, so probably for 8-9 games a year (especially in good weather) I'd queue up some garage/lawncare type shit to do and listen to Jim and Doug on the radio. Post game always included. Both for the amazing, and I mean amazing fans calling in.. and the slow moving trainwreck of the many post game comments/pressers. Williams is the only guy in this period that remotely sounds like a real head coach. And this is the only period of time where the players sound like they know they can win every game.

Just a quick shout out to the Giants, had you gone through this exercise with me, Pat Shurmur would never have a job in the NFL again. Ever. But you had to learn the hard way. I caught some of his after game ranting retarded non answering earlier this season, nearly gave me PTSD. Ive blocked chudzinski from my memory. Pettine really wasn't too bad but clearly not up to the task.
 
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Not to sound like a broken record but there is also the downside of massive coaching changes we don't talk about.

- New coaches have to do their personnel evals and re-learn strengths and weaknesses of their team
- Instead of implementing new wrinkles and looks in the off-season and master your current scheme, players now have to learn a new offense and defense including terminology.
- Targeting and scouting of different potential draft targets
- Coaches/players having to mesh with philosophy and personality (Baker and Kitch seem to really like each other - that means a lot)
- New coaches having to work with the rest of the staff - athletic trainers, assistant coaches (on new ones) team doctors, etc etc

Point being. There is a lot of time lost and a lot of duplicated efforts when changing hands. Especially when you make, at best, a lateral move from Williams/Kitch to McCarthy or Gase.
I often think these are things that are overlooked by ownership.
 
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Bucklion said:
Already rumors that Haslam has his own list (Gase). No way he doesn’t fuck this up somehow
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Haslam needs to step out of the way (which he will not do) and let Dorsey do his job. Dorsey should tell Haslam if you do not accept my recommendation I quit and see what Haslam does. Dorsey could then tell the entire football world what an ass Jerry Jones Haslam is.
 
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I guess Haslam can do whatever he wants, but if I'm Dorsey and Haslam has any more say than "Please do me a favor and interview Gase" I'd threaten to walk. Dorsey can probably write his ticket to any open GM job in the league right now. This is the first time the Browns have had any goodwill in Cleveland since Haslam bought the team so doing something to force Dorsey out would ruin him.

My biggest question is is Kitchens really that good of an OC or was the Haley/Hue combination just so terrible that average looks good? Maybe competent OC + Baker = top 5 offense. I feel Williams has a track record as an above average DC if they can get him to stay in that roll and then find a HC that can work with Kitchens to get the most out of Baker. I don't think it would be the worst thing for the Browns to stick with they guys they finished with and just try to fill the open spots with good up and coming guys. If they ever decide to bring back Frank Edgerly he can't have his house back.
 
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Names reported on today as the Browns interviewing/requesting to interview/have interest in interviewing:

Gregg Williams
Freddie Kitchens
Dan Campbell - Saints AHC/TE Coach
Matt Eberflus - Colts DC
Brian Flores - Patriots DC
Nick Sirianni - Colts OC
Kevin Stefanski - Vikings OC/QB coach
Mike Munchak - Steelers OL coach
Jim Caldwell
 
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NorthCoastKid said:
Names reported on today as the Browns interviewing/requesting to interview/have interest in interviewing:

Gregg Williams
Freddie Kitchens
Dan Campbell - Saints AHC/TE Coach
Matt Eberflus - Colts DC
Brian Flores - Patriots DC
Nick Sirianni - Colts OC
Kevin Stefanski - Vikings OC/QB coach
Mike Munchak - Steelers OL coach
Jim Caldwell
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I’ll take things that make me hurl for $1000 Alex....

How do some of these folks continue to get opportunities? And that list doesn’t include Gase.....
 
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I'd still shake the hand of whoever put this together. Old school MNF music, and Turkey just keeps sacking Bradshaw again and again and again. :lol:

 
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