I am not all in

[colobuck79]

---Theodore Roosevelt, 23 April 1920 Sorbonne

Awesome quote. However, I could have sworn that Lebron Jmes is the one that said this.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I stole this from another thread to make a point. I hope I don't screw it up.

Who CARES what anyone other than Ohio State and/or the NCAA think about this.....

Tress, from his own explanation, tried to handle it in-house. That was not the correct action and no one should be really debating that at this point.

Here's the deal now - Ohio State and the NCAA will work to deal with this issue. Then it is on Ohio State "the family", meaning the fans, alumni, students, faculty and administration, to heal this wound and move on.

Who gives a crap what other fanbases think - ALL of them hated Ohio State for its successes anyway. This is just an extension of their hate. It's a storm to be weathered, but once the success continues their petty jealousies will become more obvious.

I understand where you're coming from. With regards to other fanbases and the message boards, I could care less. What I do care about deeply and what I view to be something that is real and does matter is the public perception of Ohio State University and its national reputation. To much of the country today we're looking like just another SEC win at all costs football factory, and that does have repurcussions from fundraising to faculty and student recruitment. Thousands of people have worked very hard and contributed millions of dollars for Ohio State to be where it is today. Jim Tressel through shortsightedness, ego and possibly the desire to keep these guys eligible no matter what has, to whatever degree and for however long, damaged that.

 

[BuckStocksHere]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMzdAZ3TjCA"]YouTube - Nike Air commercial Charles Barkley[/ame]

Still the best commercial/quote ever made. I agree 100%

 

[Jake]

I think that six months from now this thing is going to look a whole lot less important than it does today. The sky has not fallen.

The sky hasn't fallen, but six months from now will be September. If anything, this thing will get new legs then when the suspensions begin.

If part of the NCAA's decision is the 2010 season goes into the books as 0-13 that would be a new experience for hundreds of thousands of Buckeyes, and a stain that wouldn't wash away in 6 months. I think that is entirely possible in this case.

 

[redbenn]

Maybe this is a good example that Tressel was more of a "senator" than we thought.

 

[Mike80]

I understand where you're coming from. With regards to other fanbases and the message boards, I could care less. What I do care about deeply and what I view to be something that is real and does matter is the public perception of Ohio State University and its national reputation. To much of the country today we're looking like just another SEC win at all costs football factory, and that does have repurcussions from fundraising to faculty and student recruitment. Thousands of people have worked very hard and contributed millions of dollars for Ohio State to be where it is today. Jim Tressel through shortsightedness, ego and possibly the desire to keep these guys eligible no matter what has, to whatever degree and for however long, damaged that.

I have a real problem with that allegation - mainly because that's what the idiots out in the world are saying.

If that's actually true we'll hear about it soon enough.

 

[Gatorubet]

The sky hasn't fallen, but six months from now will be September. If anything, this thing will get new legs then when the suspensions begin.

If part of the NCAA's decision is the 2010 season goes into the books as 0-13 that would be a new experience for hundreds of thousands of Buckeyes, and a stain that wouldn't wash away in 6 months. I think that is entirely possible in this case.

The fact that Tress just gave all of Alabama and Auburn and the rest of the SEC a "Y'all can't beat us unless you cheat!!" card is good enough reason to smack Tress in the noggin' with a phone book.

I bet nobody considered that yet.

 

[Gatorubet]

I have a real problem with that allegation - mainly because that's what the idiots out in the world are saying.

If that's actually true we'll hear about it soon enough.

Mike - that will never be among the "proven" things. That is simply an interpretation to be made by people who look at what he did in covering up and withholding information. Why he did it is between him and God.

But Mike, really, it is not idiotic for people to assume that was his motive. That is the part of all this that is the hardest to take. That is the sad part. What is a blow is that the belief that tOSU is so different than other programs is now legitimately in question by folks that are NOT idiots.

And that does not make it so, but it does not make your protestations accurate just because you think it. Perception does matter, despite your saying "who cares what other people think!" Many fans and alums of tOSU do care what others think.

 

[Mike80]

Mike - that will never be among the "proven" things. That is simply an interpretation to be made by people who look at what he did in covering up and withholding information. Why he did it is between him and God.

But Mike, really, it is not idiotic for people to assume that was his motive. That is the part of all this that is the hardest to take. That is the sad part. What is a blow is that the belief that tOSU is so different than other programs is now legitimately in question by folks that are NOT idiots.

And that does not make it so, but it does not make your protestations accurate just because you think it. Perception does matter, despite your saying "who cares what other people think!" Many fans and alums of tOSU do care what others think.

Well maybe I'm a bit more obstinate than others....but a lot of the same idiots who are making self-righteous noises about Ohio State were the same ones doing the same exact thing in 2003 and again in 2004 with Troy. Fuck all of them. These are the same people who make noise every year about Ohio State never winning or whatever. This is just ammo for them. IT's not like they wouldn't be whining about something else eventually. That's their nature.

OSU is still different. I don't think any of this really changes that. Perceptions change over time. The idea is to learn and move on. A few programs have never truly learned that lesson and I'm pretty sure Oregon is about to get a dose of that reality.

We won't know for sure whether or not OSU is truly different for years to come - the counters get reset with incidents like this one.

I'm just so glad we have the internet and 24/7 talk radio/sports media so we can listen to, watch and read the same shit over and over and over again.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I stole this from another thread to make a point. I hope I don't screw it up.

Who CARES what anyone other than Ohio State and/or the NCAA think about this.....

Tress, from his own explanation, tried to handle it in-house. That was not the correct action and no one should be really debating that at this point.

Here's the deal now - Ohio State and the NCAA will work to deal with this issue. Then it is on Ohio State "the family", meaning the fans, alumni, students, faculty and administration, to heal this wound and move on.

Who gives a crap what other fanbases think - ALL of them hated Ohio State for its successes anyway. This is just an extension of their hate. It's a storm to be weathered, but once the success continues their petty jealousies will become more obvious.

I have a real problem with that allegation - mainly because that's what the idiots out in the world are saying.

If that's actually true we'll hear about it soon enough.

As far as I can see there are three possibilities as to why he sat on those e-mails:

1. He actually didn't sit on them and turned them over to GS and is now protecting him. This, I find to be absurd. Ohio State coming clean and firing Gene Smith would be infinitely easier, more palatable to the OSU community and gone over better with the national press far better than what we have. I lend no creedence to the notion that he's falling on a hand grenade for anyone.

2 (and what I believe to be the case). That HIS way of doing things had become so insular and self-righteous as to be incompatible with university policies and organizational requirements.

3. That it was all about stonewalling and covering up to keep these guys on the field. Just because some rival fans are taking this tac doesn't mean that it automatically and by deault becomes groundless. JT has a track record of giving his stars too many chances all the way back to ysu. We all point to TS to justify it, but there are plenty cases where he was wrong and should have benched or dismissed the transgressor (clarett and reynolds). There's enough in JT's pass to justify this as at least a possibility in his decision.

 

[Mike80]

As far as I can see there are three possibilities as to why he sat on those e-mails:

1. He actually didn't sit on them and turned them over to GS and is now protecting him. This, I find to be absurd. Ohio State coming clean and firing Gene Smith would be infinitely easier, more palatable to the OSU community and gone over better with the national press far better than what we have. I lend no creedence to the notion that he's falling on a hand grenade for anyone.

2 (and what I believe to be the case). That HIS way of doing things had become so insular and self-righteous as to be incompatible with university policies and organizational requirements.

3. That it was all about stonewalling and covering up to keep these guys on the field. Just because some rival fans are taking this tac doesn't mean that it automatically and by deault becomes groundless. JT has a track record of giving his stars too many chances all the way back to ysu. We all point to TS to justify it, but there are plenty cases where he was wrong and should have benched or dismissed the transgressor (clarett and reynolds). There's enough in JT's pass to justify this as at least a possibility in his decision.

I think I'm kind of falling into the #2 realm for the time being (I don't know if I would have used insular and self-righteous, but it was certainly wrong either way)....

I think 3 is a possibility, but until I hear it from someone other than the same idiots who do nothing but bash Ohio State for being Ohio State, I refuse to lend any credence to it.

I'm also thinking along the lines of this: if the NCAA thinks #3 (and to a certain extent #1) was more of the motivation for this, then they will drop the hammer on Tressel and/or Ohio State.

However, if they go along with Ohio State's reasoning, which is by and large what Ohio State is filing with the NCAA, what we see may be the punishment in total. Perhaps a slightly higher fine - likely something like a speaking circuit to talk with coaches and players about compliance, but I still have to think that Ohio State, if they were truly working with the NCAA, has some sort of inclination as to what the true penalty will ultimately be....

 

[zwem]

He put himself and his players above the University. TP and Jim Tressel are not greater than OSU. IMO Tressels ego allowed him to believe this.

He not only knew about the items being sold but he lied to the Buckeye Nation as a whole in December...He said they knew nothing until then.

There e-mail show there was no confidentiality or safety issues...even if there were the man has signed many contracts and some have been for multi-million dollar contracts...he knows when legal documents come into your possession that pertain to you, your subordinates, or your boss that your consult an attorney and you never hide it from your employer!!!!

His statement was complete bull[Mark May]. Maybe his nickname "Senator" is 100% spot on...we all know they are vague, great talkers, and full of [Mark May]. He lost my respect. This was a cover up plain and simple.

OSU>Jim Tressel

We have a cancer at OSU and IMO I hope it doesn't spread. I could care less if they fire him. His arrogance was his undoing here. He will never be viewed the same. I live in Alabama and everyone is talking ABOUT IT HERE. He damaged the University...him and the Posse he was trying to protect.

It's a damn shame stupid [Mark May] like this takes away from what our basketball team is doing on the court. Now before every basketball game we are gonna have to hear about this [Mark May] rather than basketball.

This has ruined the 2011 season for me...I hope after taking a break from football for a few months I will get hungry for it again. All next season we are gonna be hearing about this [Mark May].

Another thing that sucks is this is exactly what Michigan needed...OSU to shoot itself in the foot. I bet those assholes are hi-fiving up there.

Some are hi-fiving, some aren't, some just don't care. Personally I'm worried more about how our offense is going to look, who steps up in spring practice, what Hoke brings to the table.

As far as the situation at hand. Tressel was put into a tough spot because of the actions of his players. Tressel knew all along and I'm sure most fans would like to know one big question. Did he conceal the information because he was trying only to protect his players? Did he conceal it because he knew his team had a chance for a National Championship and did it to "win at all costs?"Maybe he just didn't know what to do or was stuck on how to handle the situation. Only he knows for sure and the rest of the media/people can only speculate.

I'll share a personal experience to try to put myself in Tressel's shoes. I probably shouldn't be sharing this, but oh well. I used to be a cop and worked in a Narcotics/DTF Division. My brother used to be a drug dealer/handled drugs. Talk about irony. Thank God we lived in different states at the time. I could not imagine him being in the same county/city and trying to bust him. I knew what he was doing and just turned my cheek. I would have a hard time trying to bust my brother. To be honest, I probably would have tipped him off to just stay out of trouble if I could. I would have no trouble busting other people. Am I a hypocrite?....yes I am. When it comes to family though, you protect family on 99% of the situations. I really think this is what Tressel was doing. I want to believe that. Tressel looks at his staff and players as a big family. You protect your family from cheap shots from the media, from opposing teams/fans, false allegations,etc. That's what I want from Hoke and I hope he will promote a family atmosphere with the Michigan family.

Do you guys think he would have handled it differently if the players were 2nd/3rd string guys instead of any important players? Or they had a chance to win a National Championship?

Jax and I were talking about the Fab 5 the other night and it got it interesting because we brought up cheating. I'm sure other coaches have protected players and concealed "important" info on players but never got caught. I'm sure it happens, but breaking the rules is breaking the rules.

I believe Tressel is a good man and was put in a bad situation trying to protect his players. However, he should be punished and I'm sure the NCAA isn't done with this matter.

I'm sure preception on your program will change alot and even more so on your coach. It could affect the program in the short term, but in the long run I'm sure you guys will be fine.

Just my 2 cents from an "outsider"

 

[brodybuck21]

Some are hi-fiving, some aren't, some just don't care. Personally I'm worried more about how our offense is going to look, who steps up in spring practice, what Hoke brings to the table.

As far as the situation at hand. Tressel was put into a tough spot because of the actions of his players. Tressel knew all along and I'm sure most fans would like to know one big question. Did he conceal the information because he was trying only to protect his players? Did he conceal it because he knew his team had a chance for a National Championship and did it to "win at all costs?"Maybe he just didn't know what to do or was stuck on how to handle the situation. Only he knows for sure and the rest of the media/people can only speculate.

I'll share a personal experience to try to put myself in Tressel's shoes. I probably shouldn't be sharing this, but oh well. I used to be a cop and worked in a Narcotics/DTF Division. My brother used to be a drug dealer/handled drugs. Talk about irony. Thank God we lived in different states at the time. I could not imagine him being in the same county/city and trying to bust him. I knew what he was doing and just turned my cheek. I would have a hard time trying to bust my brother. To be honest, I probably would have tipped him off to just stay out of trouble if I could. I would have no trouble busting other people. Am I a hypocrite?....yes I am. When it comes to family though, you protect family on 99% of the situations. I really think this is what Tressel was doing. I want to believe that. Tressel looks at his staff and players as a big family. You protect your family from cheap shots from the media, from opposing teams/fans, false allegations,etc. That's what I want from Hoke and I hope he will promote a family atmosphere with the Michigan family.

Do you guys think he would have handled it differently if the players were 2nd/3rd string guys instead of any important players? Or they had a chance to win a National Championship?

Jax and I were talking about the Fab 5 the other night and it got it interesting because we brought up cheating. I'm sure other coaches have protected players and concealed "important" info on players but never got caught. I'm sure it happens, but breaking the rules is breaking the rules.

I believe Tressel is a good man and was put in a bad situation trying to protect his players. However, he should be punished and I'm sure the NCAA isn't done with this matter.

I'm sure preception on your program will change alot and even more so on your coach. It could affect the program in the short term, but in the long run I'm sure you guys will be fine.

Just my 2 cents from an "outsider"

gpa

 

[Bucklion]

Some are hi-fiving, some aren't, some just don't care. Personally I'm worried more about how our offense is going to look, who steps up in spring practice, what Hoke brings to the table.

As far as the situation at hand. Tressel was put into a tough spot because of the actions of his players. Tressel knew all along and I'm sure most fans would like to know one big question. Did he conceal the information because he was trying only to protect his players? Did he conceal it because he knew his team had a chance for a National Championship and did it to "win at all costs?"Maybe he just didn't know what to do or was stuck on how to handle the situation. Only he knows for sure and the rest of the media/people can only speculate.

I'll share a personal experience to try to put myself in Tressel's shoes. I probably shouldn't be sharing this, but oh well. I used to be a cop and worked in a Narcotics/DTF Division. My brother used to be a drug dealer/handled drugs. Talk about irony. Thank God we lived in different states at the time. I could not imagine him being in the same county/city and trying to bust him. I knew what he was doing and just turned my cheek. I would have a hard time trying to bust my brother. To be honest, I probably would have tipped him off to just stay out of trouble if I could. I would have no trouble busting other people. Am I a hypocrite?....yes I am. When it comes to family though, you protect family on 99% of the situations. I really think this is what Tressel was doing. I want to believe that. Tressel looks at his staff and players as a big family. You protect your family from cheap shots from the media, from opposing teams/fans, false allegations,etc. That's what I want from Hoke and I hope he will promote a family atmosphere with the Michigan family.

Do you guys think he would have handled it differently if the players were 2nd/3rd string guys instead of any important players? Or they had a chance to win a National Championship?

Jax and I were talking about the Fab 5 the other night and it got it interesting because we brought up cheating. I'm sure other coaches have protected players and concealed "important" info on players but never got caught. I'm sure it happens, but breaking the rules is breaking the rules.

I believe Tressel is a good man and was put in a bad situation trying to protect his players. However, he should be punished and I'm sure the NCAA isn't done with this matter.

I'm sure preception on your program will change alot and even more so on your coach. It could affect the program in the short term, but in the long run I'm sure you guys will be fine.

Just my 2 cents from an "outsider"

Interesting that E$PN is running ads every hour for their 30 for 30-ish Fab 5 special that will be airing soon too...

 

[stowfan]

I read the first eight pages of this thread before posting. I have not read the emails, nor do I care to read them. I realize, hindsight is 20-20, no one is perfect, and everyone makes mistakes.

Based on what very little I know, it appears JT knew, several of his players had committed NCAA violations that would resulted their being ruled ineligible. Based on past cases, JT knew, the ineligible players, would have to be suspended, to become "legal" players again.

Regardless of extenuating circumstances, IMHO, allowing the players to play for a full season, was the worst thing JT could have done. In hindsight, JT could have called the players in, and explained to them, they had be involved with the wrong crowd. Further, they were going to be suspended, for unspecified reasons. This way when the shit hit the fan, everyone was covered.

Instead, JT chose to play the entire season as if nothing was up. If this were any other school, we would be howling for the entire season to be forfeited. Sadly, IMHO, the only victory that should stand is the Sugar Bowl. I believe we should do it rather than being forced to.:(