Jim Tressel (National Champion, ex-President, Youngstown State University, CFB HOF)

[brodybuck21]

If he's just one part of a larger recognition of the team, I really don't have a problem with him being on the field. And I don't have a problem with him being honored individually in some form down the road. It's the same way that I don't have a problem honoring Cris Carter now despite his colossal [censored] up when he was on the team.

I do, however, think that his transgressions were serious enough and the damage he caused to Ohio State serious enough that he's forfeited his right to dot the I or have his name next to Paul Brown and Woody.

This I agree with 100%

 

[JBaney45]

If he's just one part of a larger recognition of the team, I really don't have a problem with him being on the field. And I don't have a problem with him being honored individually in some form down the road. It's the same way that I don't have a problem honoring Cris Carter now despite his colossal [censored] up when he was on the team.

I do, however, think that his transgressions were serious enough and the damage he caused to Ohio State serious enough that he's forfeited his right to dot the I or have his name next to Paul Brown and Woody.

Woody punched a college kid in the face, he also was linked to NCAA violations during his tenure.

The aftermath of Tressel was what? We had 1 crappy season and are going to miss out on one..arguably 2 games (the bowl..and maybe the Big Championship if we would have made it). Our recruiting hasn't really been damaged..our national standing really hasn't been damaged. Yeah we drew the short straw in that the NCAA actually decided to take action against us..but so far there isn't any indication that it's going to be a long term setback.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I do, however, think that his transgressions were serious enough and the damage he caused to Ohio State serious enough that he's forfeited his right to dot the I or have his name next to Paul Brown and Woody.

Seek therapy for the serious hard-on you have against Tressel. Read JBaney45's post. Woody got us put on probation during his time also. You really need to keep in mind that if it weren't for Tressel there would be no 2002 national title team to honor in the first place. I don't care if Tressel took a huge [strike]dump[/strike] Michigan in the Pope's bath tub, he deserves to be a part of a ceremony that recognizes his team...and make no mistake, it was his team.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Woody punched a college kid in the face, he also was linked to NCAA violations during his tenure.

The aftermath of Tressel was what? We had 1 crappy season and are going to miss out on one..arguably 2 games (the bowl..and maybe the Big Championship if we would have made it). Our recruiting hasn't really been damaged..our national standing really hasn't been damaged. Yeah we drew the short straw in that the NCAA actually decided to take action against us..but so far there isn't any indication that it's going to be a long term setback.

He took a wild haymaker at the side of kid's helmet. Big difference.

Woody's violations were very minor compared to JT. One was for holding too many practices, and the other was for loaning poor black players from the South money to get home for the holidays or family emergencies. The latter was in the 50s before schools were allowed to pay for such things. The fallout from Woody doing that is that the NCAA allowed schools to set up emergency funds to do formally do what Woody was doing privately.

JT learned through back channels that his players were breaking ncaa rules and would in all likelihood be declared ineligible for a chunk of the 2010 season if that info came to light. He buried it and lied once to the ncaa about it and twice to his superiors about it.

Frankly, let him be on the field if the rest of the team is, but I honestly could give two fucking shits about 2002 or 9-1. Whatever he accomplished on the field was more than washed away by what he did off it.

 

[LitlBuck]

For the record, I will just state that I agree with ORD and the difference between JT and Woody on and off the field were Huge IMO

 

[Buckeye86]

Whatever he accomplished on the field was more than washed away by what he did off it.

I agree with everything you wrote except for this- unless the issues and coverups were ongoing throughout Tressel's tenure. Do you have proof or reason to suspect that they were, ORD?

I mean, the crap that that SI article had to dig up going all the way back to the YSU days to make their "Tressel is dirty" case only reinforces that Tressel was relatively clean in most instances in my mind. He obviously wasn't very good at covering things up SEC style, so the fact that rigged raffles at YSU made the "best of" list of worst infractions is telling in my opinion.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

He took a wild haymaker at the side of kid's helmet. Big difference.

Woody's violations were very minor compared to JT. One was for holding too many practices, and the other was for loaning poor black players from the South money to get home for the holidays or family emergencies. The latter was in the 50s before schools were allowed to pay for such things. The fallout from Woody doing that is that the NCAA allowed schools to set up emergency funds to do formally do what Woody was doing privately.

JT learned through back channels that his players were breaking ncaa rules and would in all likelihood be declared ineligible for a chunk of the 2010 season if that info came to light. He buried it and lied once to the ncaa about it and twice to his superiors about it.

Frankly, let him be on the field if the rest of the team is, but I honestly could give two fucking shits about 2002 or 9-1. Whatever he accomplished on the field was more than washed away by what he did off it.

You seriously need to get some perspective. What Woody did loaning players money back then was indeed a big deal, or else OSU would not have been placed on probation and ruled ineligible for the 1957 Rose Bowl. Whatever his intents were, he still knowingly broke rules which could lead to consequences against the program, which is what happened. Tressel did the same thing, and some can argue that Tressel initally did not notify anyone because of the on-going FBI investigation...keep in mind that the owner of the tattoo parlor where the players were getting the cheap/free tattoo was invloved with serious organized crime. There's little doubt that Tressel, at least initially, felt there could be potential danger to the players invloved should it become public.

Were Hayes' accomplishments washed away by his actions? His name up in The Shoe says otherwise. Tressel deserves to be with his team, despite your well-known feeling of being butt-hurt because we had a bad season last year.

 

[MaxBuck]

If we're going to limit our honoring past coaches to those who functioned entirely within NCAA rules, we won't be honoring any past coaches.

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

If we're going to limit our honoring past coaches to those who functioned entirely within NCAA rules, we won't be honoring any past coaches.

Why do you hate Carroll Widdoes?

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I agree with everything you wrote except for this- unless the issues and coverups were ongoing throughout Tressel's tenure. Do you have proof or reason to suspect that they were, ORD?

I mean, the crap that that SI article had to dig up going all the way back to the YSU days to make their "Tressel is dirty" case only reinforces that Tressel was relatively clean in most instances in my mind. He obviously wasn't very good at covering things up SEC style, so the fact that rigged raffles at YSU made the "best of" list of worst infractions is telling in my opinion.

I see where I wasn't entirely clear, but that's not what I was getting at. I've never maintained that I believe JT's transgressions were systematic throughout his tenure, and I don't believe that any season other than 2010 is officially tainted by his actions.

In fact, after the ncaa cleared the program in the wake of Clarett's accusations, I was a huge supporter and defender of JT. When he did fuck up though, he fucked up to a degree that--and I'm speaking for myself--what he did do on the field over those ten years doesn't balance the scales remotely back in his favor.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

If we're going to limit our honoring past coaches to those who functioned entirely within NCAA rules, we won't be honoring any past coaches.

Neither Earl Bruce nor John Cooper had any NCAA scandal, violations or sanctions.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Were Hayes' accomplishments washed away by his actions? His name up in The Shoe says otherwise. Tressel deserves to be with his team, despite your well-known feeling of being butt-hurt because we had a bad season last year.

Mili, I've already said that I agree with you that if the team is on the field he should have the option of being there with them. Where we differ is in any further specific honoring of him, what's a proper window before that can happen and how far that should or shouldn't go. Also, you can criticize me for a lot of things, but you have to admit that I'm about the least person on this board who lets wins and losses drive his judgement about university issues.

Don't take my differing with you regarding JT personally. I've always enjoyed your posts. We just need to agree to disagree in this one area. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a Penn State Cult rally with Franco Harris to subvert and destroy from the inside. I'm one of the organizers.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Mili, I've already said that I agree with you that if the team is on the field he should have the option of being there with them. Where we differ is in any further specific honoring of him, what's a proper window before that can happen and how far that should or shouldn't go. Also, you can criticize me for a lot of things, but you have to admit that I'm about the least person on this board who lets wins and losses drive his judgement about university issues.

Don't take my differing with you regarding JT personally. I've always enjoyed your posts. We just need to agree to disagree in this one area. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a Penn State Cult rally with Franco Harris to subvert and destroy from the inside. I'm one of the organizers.

It may be my Youngstown roots giving JT more benefit of the doubt than he may deserve, but I still think what his whole body of work at Ohio State isn't negated by his mistakes...not even close. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that...

 

[Buckeye86]

When he did fuck up though, he fucked up to a degree that--and I'm speaking for myself--what he did do on the field over those ten years doesn't balance the scales remotely back in his favor.

I disagree with that but understand why it is necessary for you to take such a hard line given how much shit you dish out to other programs.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I disagree with that but understand why it is necessary for you to take such a hard line given how much [Mark May] you dish out to other programs.

At least I'm consistent--so I got that and total consciousness going for me. I don't doubt that my position towards him will soften with time and I'll probably have a more balanced view of good and bad regarding his tenure.