Lebron James (Los Angeles Lakers)

[billmac91]

You're equating the Bulls organization with the Cavs. The Bulls made a commitment to win starting from the absolute get-go of the organization and continuing right up to today. Can you say the same for the Cavs?

I can understand Cleveland's disappointment. You won't get me to applaud the "reality television" manner in which he made his move. But as someone stuck with Mikey Brown and his own personal stadium and francise, I can certainly see why athletes make the decisions they make.

That is so patently false I don't even know where to begin. Jordan played on terrible Bulls teams, and went through adversity worse than LeBron saw before he signed his first contract extension in 1988.

Jordan could have walked after the 87 season, and the future wasn't insanely bright in Chicago. No-one knew Scottie Pippen would turn into a top 50 player when Jordan re-signed for 8 years. Jordan put the growth of that franchise on his back. There's a reason Chicago was picking third in the draft when Jordan was selected....

If LeBron wanted to win championships in Cleveland, he would have made the same committment Jordan did to Chicago. Re-upping for max years in Cleveland would have solved a slew of problems.

Evan at that, I don't really have an issue with him leaving Cleveland. I have a problem with him rigging the league and taking the competiveness out of it. The "Big 3" made the Eastern Conference a joke and laughed at how easy it would be. Who does that?

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Who does that, and then falls on their faces in their first go-round?

 

[billmac91]

Who does that, and then falls on their faces in their first go-round?

The world will always be indebted to the Dallas Mavericks, no doubt.

 

[cincibuck]

That is so patently false I don't even know where to begin. Jordan played on terrible Bulls teams, and went through adversity worse than LeBron saw before he signed his first contract extension in 1988.

Jordan could have walked after the 87 season, and the future wasn't insanely bright in Chicago. No-one knew Scottie Pippen would turn into a top 50 player when Jordan re-signed for 8 years. Jordan put the growth of that franchise on his back. There's a reason Chicago was picking third in the draft when Jordan was selected....

If LeBron wanted to win championships in Cleveland, he would have made the same committment Jordan did to Chicago. Re-upping for max years in Cleveland would have solved a slew of problems.

Evan at that, I don't really have an issue with him leaving Cleveland. I have a problem with him rigging the league and taking the competiveness out of it. The "Big 3" made the Eastern Conference a joke and laughed at how easy it would be. Who does that?

In their first ten years the bulls made it to the nba finals and had winning records. Can you say the same for the cavs?

When the bulls fell on hard times they made changes. When they knew what they had in Jordan they invested in supporting players.

But more than anything players don't owe a franchise anything more than effort and keeping a contract. If they want to play elsewhere and they complete their contract they're under no further obligation.

 

[buckeyesin07]

But more than anything players don't owe a franchise anything more than effort and keeping a contract. If they want to play elsewhere and they complete their contract they're under no further obligation.

That's one way of looking at it. And on the other side of the fence, there is the opinion held by the several Hall of Famers that billmac cited.

 

[Bleed S & G]

Why did A-Rod sign with the Yankees?

Their is a tradition for, what, 100 years that the best baseball players wear pinstripes? No salary cap in the MLB? Traded to New York for Soriano & someone else if I recall..

Why did Corey Dillon sign with the Patriots?

Corey Dillon was traded after being hurt, and the Bungals thought Rudi Johnson was the answer after a monster year..

Why did Kareem Jabbar insist on going to the Lakers?

Kareem was also traded, and not old enough to know the "history" that you do on this one..

We can go round-and-round, but I don't think you'll find another player out there - who held his "home town" team hostage - all the while making a back room deal with two Olympians to stack the deck.

 

[billmac91]

In their first ten years the bulls made it to the nba finals and had winning records. Can you say the same for the cavs?

When the bulls fell on hard times they made changes. When they knew what they had in Jordan they invested in supporting players.

But more than anything players don't owe a franchise anything more than effort and keeping a contract. If they want to play elsewhere and they complete their contract they're under no further obligation.

LeBron made the finals in Cleveland well before Jordan ever did in Chicago. By that reasoning, LeBron should have stayed? LeBron had exponentially more success in his first 4 season in Cleveland than Michael had in Chicago.

And how much easier is it to invest in supporting players, when your superstar is locked up for 8 years? You aren't being fair to Cleveland at all. LeBron re-signed after his rookie deal, for 3 years. There was chatter that entire contract about where he would play on his next deal. Guys like Ron Artest and Trevor Ariza openly stated they wouldn't sign in Cleveland because they didn't think LeBron was in it for the long haul.

But you're still missing the point. I agree LeBron had the choice to leave. It's still an embarrassment he colluded with other superstars and took the easiest path possible to a title. NBA greats all agree as well. It was a sad day for the NBA when stars decided competing against each other isn't as cool as dominating a "JV" conference and trying to win titles that wll "be easy".

 

[Bleed S & G]

But as someone stuck with Mikey Brown and his own personal stadium and francise, I can certainly see why athletes make the decisions they make.

You think Lebron wanted another coach and the Cavs said 'sorry, Brown is the guy?' I;m sure LBJ had serious input on the coach of the team with Gilbert.

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

I think that there is a huge difference between LeBron and Jordan, Bird, Kobe in terms of their focus. I think Jordan and Bird cared solely about winning, where LeBron cares about a bunch of other things, most notably being liked (specifically by his teammates). And your quotes from Jordan, Barkely, and Bird all reflect a very different NBA, where fights were common and there was genuine dislike between teams/players. For better or for worse, that's changed in today's NBA due to AAU circuits, a much more robust national team, etc so that now the vast majority of players are good friends. So when you amend the line "two top 10 NBA players" to read "two Top 10 NBA players who happened to be very close friends", it changes things.

All of that being said, I just don't see him as "cheating the game" or "rigging the league and taking the competitiveness out of it." Any single NBA player can do exactly what he did. Now, most don't for some myriad of reasons (probably the most influential being money: superstars are reluctant to give up the 5 year 120% max contract they can get for resigning to move teams), but any one of them could. And there is a cost to doing what Miami did, limiting your cap space for the remaining guys on their team. They've managed to deal with that because a number of good veterans were willing to take significantly less money to play on a contender, so their team's actual payroll is below it's market-value payroll, but if you're upset by that you should get mad at the people who took less to win a title.

You can bring up all of the player's who said they wouldn't do that, and that's all reasonable, but if your goal is truly to win championships (and it doesn't have to be, you can be a great professional athlete without that being your ultimate goal and it doesn't detract from you as a person or player at all) then taking actions to make that goal a reality by teaming up with other great players seems like the best way to do it for me.

And just FYI, I've actively rooted against the Heat ever since they formed the super team. I'd love to see it fail. But I don't think that LeBron going to Miami in any way takes away from his greatness or exposes some kind of character flaw that is implied here.

 

[Bleed S & G]

I think that there is a huge difference between LeBron and Jordan, Bird, Kobe in terms of their focus. I think Jordan and Bird cared solely about winning, where LeBron cares about a bunch of other things, most notably being liked (specifically by his teammates). And your quotes from Jordan, Barkely, and Bird all reflect a very different NBA, where fights were common and there was genuine dislike between teams/players. For better or for worse, that's changed in today's NBA due to AAU circuits, a much more robust national team, etc so that now the vast majority of players are good friends. So when you amend the line "two top 10 NBA players" to read "two Top 10 NBA players who happened to be very close friends", it changes things.

All of that being said, I just don't see him as "cheating the game" or "rigging the league and taking the competitiveness out of it." Any single NBA player can do exactly what he did. Now, most don't for some myriad of reasons (probably the most influential being money: superstars are reluctant to give up the 5 year 120% max contract they can get for resigning to move teams), but any one of them could. And there is a cost to doing what Miami did, limiting your cap space for the remaining guys on their team. They've managed to deal with that because a number of good veterans were willing to take significantly less money to play on a contender, so their team's actual payroll is below it's market-value payroll, but if you're upset by that you should get mad at the people who took less to win a title.

You can bring up all of the player's who said they wouldn't do that, and that's all reasonable, but if your goal is truly to win championships (and it doesn't have to be, you can be a great professional athlete without that being your ultimate goal and it doesn't detract from you as a person or player at all) then taking actions to make that goal a reality by teaming up with other great players seems like the best way to do it for me.

And just FYI, I've actively rooted against the Heat ever since they formed the super team. I'd love to see it fail. But I don't think that LeBron going to Miami in any way takes away from his greatness or exposes some kind of character flaw that is implied here.

Lebron is a bitch.

 

[billmac91]

I think that there is a huge difference between LeBron and Jordan, Bird, Kobe in terms of their focus. I think Jordan and Bird cared solely about winning, where LeBron cares about a bunch of other things, most notably being liked (specifically by his teammates). And your quotes from Jordan, Barkely, and Bird all reflect a very different NBA, where fights were common and there was genuine dislike between teams/players. For better or for worse, that's changed in today's NBA due to AAU circuits, a much more robust national team, etc so that now the vast majority of players are good friends. So when you amend the line "two top 10 NBA players" to read "two Top 10 NBA players who happened to be very close friends", it changes things.

All of that being said, I just don't see him as "cheating the game" or "rigging the league and taking the competitiveness out of it." Any single NBA player can do exactly what he did. Now, most don't for some myriad of reasons (probably the most influential being money: superstars are reluctant to give up the 5 year 120% max contract they can get for resigning to move teams), but any one of them could. And there is a cost to doing what Miami did, limiting your cap space for the remaining guys on their team. They've managed to deal with that because a number of good veterans were willing to take significantly less money to play on a contender, so their team's actual payroll is below it's market-value payroll, but if you're upset by that you should get mad at the people who took less to win a title.

You can bring up all of the player's who said they wouldn't do that, and that's all reasonable, but if your goal is truly to win championships (and it doesn't have to be, you can be a great professional athlete without that being your ultimate goal and it doesn't detract from you as a person or player at all) then taking actions to make that goal a reality by teaming up with other great players seems like the best way to do it for me.

And just FYI, I've actively rooted against the Heat ever since they formed the super team. I'd love to see it fail. But I don't think that LeBron going to Miami in any way takes away from his greatness or exposes some kind of character flaw that is implied here.

This is at least a fair argument and well reasoned. I can accept that.

I'll never change my belief that its insanely weak for a 2-time MVP and recognized best player on the planet leaving his team to join another superstars squad. It was weak-minded and an overreaction to losing to Boston. His accomplishments are greatly diminshed in many peoples eyes because of how favorably they stacked the deck in Miami. He should be winning titles with that roster...it's an embarrassment if they don't.

And I think it is telling that the owners have re-drafted the collective bargaining agreement so the league doesn't turn into a higher level AAU circuit. That is what LeBron wanted and got, but the owners recognize that is a horrible model. Stacking 2 or 3 teams with the best players in the game is brutal for competitive balance. It's not a surprise NBA viewership was down 20% this year...its been a foregone conclusion Miami will win again (hopefully San Antonio pulls through) and fans have tuned out since Miami got it last year.

 

[Buckeneye]

Finally, whatever else is said about LeBron, he still lines up and roots for the Buckeyes.

Lets not try to compare why Lebitch is a fan - compared to every member on this board.

I grew up with it, was raised in the atmosphere/culture. Pride in the team, university and state. Pride in the insitution that I proudly attended (albit for a short time only, sadly).

His Baldness is a "fan" because it was the thing to do in his formative years.
He's bandwagon as fuck. He likes laying claim to the limelight and winners.
A self procclaimed Cowboys fan ( don't get me started on the stereotype he perpetuates with that). Shows up to an Indians game rocking Yankeess gear.

Had Tressel not been coach, or god forbid he not been successful - this jackass
Would be a scUMmer without a doubt. However the return to glory fell hand in hand with his formative years in the late 90's early 2000's.


I've said this before - he's no more a Buckeye then my grandfather who was born and raised in Cali and "rooted" for the S&G when they played USC in the 70's.

"Fake Buckeye" seems to be the popular term.

 

[cincibuck]

Lets not try to compare why Lebitch is a fan - compared to every member on this board.

I grew up with it, was raised in the atmosphere/culture. Pride in the team, university and state. Pride in the insitution that I proudly attended (albit for a short time only, sadly).

His Baldness is a "fan" because it was the thing to do in his formative years.
He's bandwagon as fuck. He likes laying claim to the limelight and winners.
A self procclaimed Cowboys fan ( don't get me started on the stereotype he perpetuates with that). Shows up to an Indians game rocking Yankeess gear.

Had Tressel not been coach, or god forbid he not been successful - this jackass
Would be a scUMmer without a doubt. However the return to glory fell hand in hand with his formative years in the late 90's early 2000's.


I've said this before - he's no more a Buckeye then my grandfather who was born and raised in Cali and "rooted" for the S&G when they played USC in the 70's.

"Fake Buckeye" seems to be the popular term.

Thank God rooting for the Cowboys is passe... but what you're saying is that this guy puts a premium on winning, or trying to win. Isn't that the entire point of professional sports?

(Mikey Brown would tell you it's about making money that could be spent on players and making players happy and instead giving it to your extended family along with a home grown jobs program.)

 

[matcar]

Boo hoooo LeBron left Cleveland and made a spectacle of it. He may be great but Ohio local fan will NOT acknowledge it because Internet hate is GOOOOOOOOOOD.

 

[buckeyesin07]

Boo hoooo LeBron left Cleveland and made a spectacle of it. He may be great but Ohio local fan will NOT acknowledge it because Internet hate is GOOOOOOOOOOD.

Is there really anyone in his thread who is denying that he's a great basketball player? You do realize he could be a great player and still take the easy way out by assembling a team of all-stars, right?