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"LLLLLLL"oyd Carr (officialllllll thread)

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Lloyd Carr - Love him or hate him?

  • Love Him

    Votes: 64 21.1%

  • Hate him

    Votes: 84 27.7%

  • Stupidest poll ever

    Votes: 155 51.2%
  • Total voters
    303
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This year was the first time I saw the scUM press make mention of 95, 96 and 97 like OSU fans do.

That is think what his accomplishments would be if OSU didn't have a complete bafoon as HC in those years. scUM loses 4 or 5 games a year instead of 3or 4 and is playing in the backwater Bowl while OSU is in the Rose playing for multiple NC's. Strong chance scUM's half a NC never happens as well. Essentially Coops utter incompetence made carr look like a lot better coach than he really was/is.

Thats a very telling read between the lines thing for me. I see the mood swing in the public at large happening like it did with Coop, but like others have said it takes a lot more than that. The prallels with Coop bring me to my next point.

When comparing Coop and Carr remember this

-Coop was an outsider from the begining and never fully welcomed(for good reasons). Carr is a "Michigan Man". That means a lot.
-Coop gave the OSU admins an excuse to pull the trigger with all the off the field bullshit. Carr hasn't had anything close to that.
-The last straw for Coop was losing control of a team and having them essentially no show a Bowl game. Carr's kids play hard, its coaching decisions that fuck them more often than not.

All in all I say he's here for a while and thats a good thing.
 
Upvote 0
Jaxbuck said:
This year was the first time I saw the scUM press make mention of 95, 96 and 97 like OSU fans do.

That is think what his accomplishments would be if OSU didn't have a complete bafoon as HC in those years. scUM loses 4 or 5 games a year instead of 3or 4 and is playing in the backwater Bowl while OSU is in the Rose playing for multiple NC's. Strong chance scUM's half a NC never happens as well. Essentially Coops utter incompetence made carr look like a lot better coach than he really was/is.

Thats a very telling read between the lines thing for me. I see the mood swing in the public at large happening like it did with Coop, but like others have said it takes a lot more than that. The prallels with Coop bring me to my next point.

When comparing Coop and Carr remember this

-Coop was an outsider from the begining and never fully welcomed(for good reasons). Carr is a "Michigan Man". That means a lot.
-Coop gave the OSU admins an excuse to pull the trigger with all the off the field bullshit. Carr hasn't had anything close to that.
-The last straw for Coop was losing control of a team and having them essentially no show a Bowl game. Carr's kids play hard, its coaching decisions that fuck them more often than not.

All in all I say he's here for a while and thats a good thing.
Click to expand...


This game was not one of being out coached. We had the better players.
Now that gets into recruiting questions about LLLLLoyd. Something that won't ding him as bad as the immediately visible 'dear in the head lights' situation.
As long as Bo is around he has some comfort. But doesn't mean he won't end up the assistant AD.
2 more OSU losses max. Then he accepts a new postion and retires.
 
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Buckinghorse said:
This game was not one of being out coached. We had the better players.
Now that gets into recruiting questions about LLLLLoyd. Something that won't ding him as bad as the immediately visible 'dear in the head lights' situation.
As long as Bo is around he has some comfort. But doesn't mean he won't end up the assistant AD.
Click to expand...

Agree we had the talent advantage, thats obvious. The UM kids didn't ever stop playing hard is my main point. It can be argued quite effectively that the pooch punt on 4th and 3 was a huge mistake by LLLLoyd btw.

I agree on the recruiting problems for carr and company and I lump that under coaching fuckups. They recruit some serious talent but its not geared toward the play in space spread concepts that are so prevelant in today's game. His players are all still geared for late 80's and 90's style straight up smash mouth power I football imo.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
Agree we had the talent advantage, thats obvious. The UM kids didn't ever stop playing hard is my main point. It can be argued quite effectively that the pooch punt on 4th and 3 was a huge mistake by LLLLoyd btw.

I agree on the recruiting problems for carr and company and I lump that under coaching fuckups. They recruit some serious talent but its not geared toward the play in space spread concepts that are so prevelant in today's game. His players are all still geared for late 80's and 90's style straight up smash mouth power I football imo.
Click to expand...

Jaxbuck
I agree with you completely but I keep thinking what really are the options.
He could go for the long field goal or go for it on 4th down or pooch punt it at around the 10 yard line.
The pooch punt doesn't seem that bad of an Idea if the other two fail. We get an even shorter field.
 
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Buckinghorse said:
Jaxbuck
I agree with you completely but I keep thinking what really are the options.
He could go for the long field goal or go for it on 4th down or pooch punt it at around the 10 yard line.
The pooch punt doesn't seem that bad of an Idea if the other two fail. We get an even shorter field.
Click to expand...

In that particular situation with his defense, I would have said go for it. Your offense was moving the chains and the D had just been torched for one long drive.

The reason being you are playing that prevent shit anyway so the extra yds you pick up in field position go away in about 1-2 plays.

The reason I feel it was a coaching fuck up is how happy I was when I saw them do it instead of go for it. A 4th down conversion there is an absolute dagger for us and imo he let us off the hook.
 
Upvote 0
Jaxbuck said:
In that particular situation with his defense, I would have said go for it. Your offense was moving the chains and the D had just been torched for one long drive.

The reason being you are playing that prevent shit anyway so the extra yds you pick up in field position go away in about 1-2 plays.

The reason I feel it was a coaching fuck up is how happy I was when I saw them do it instead of go for it. A 4th down conversion there is an absolute dagger for us and imo he let us off the hook.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. I felt a whole lot better when he didn't go for it.
A score there would have made the climb much much tougher.
 
Upvote 0
In retrospect, it's easy for me to say: Lllloyd Carr coached one hell of a game yesterday, and his team played GREAT.

In regards to the pooch ... it was perfectly executed. A FG into the wind in that situation would have been tough, and given the buck's great field position. Also, hats of to lllloyd for a couple GUTSY decisions to go for it on 4th down. He was 50% before that play, which is the way it goes in these types of games ... you make some plays and you don't make some plays.

Also, what about the brilliant execution on the quick snap run to get their third score ... there's one where he got the better of the buckeyes with a brilliant playcall.

I'm going to have to stand up here and say that I will not tolerate any implication that lllloyd and michigan did anything other than play great today, because it takes away from the brilliant play of our guys on offense, defense, AND special teams. Yep I said special teams too ... as bad as the muffs by Ginn were, there were two HUGE recoveries that were pure heart and fire plays.

This game was not lost by anyone on the wolverines side of the ball ... it was WON by the buckeyes.
 
Upvote 0
This game was not one of being out coached. We had the better players.
Click to expand...

That may be true, but we have had better teams in the past with Cooper against mediocre Michigan teams and lost. Tressel officially has Carr's number.

I do not think Carr gets fired after the season, but don't kid yourself, his 1-4 record against Notre Dame and Ohio State is now a big issue, his record in bowl games isn't much better.

Regardless if Bo is a huge supporter of Carr. His inability to beat his rivals will determine wether he stays or goes. I think he gets at least 1 more year to turn it around....


<TABLE cellPadding=0 width=665 border=0><TBODY><TR><TH width=50 bgColor=#a00020 height=25>Year</TH><TH width=265 bgColor=#a00020 height=25>
Team​
</TH><TH width=50 bgColor=#a00020 height=25>Win</TH><TH width=50 bgColor=#a00020 height=25>Loss</TH><TH width=50 bgColor=#a00020 height=25>Tie</TH><TH width=50 bgColor=#a00020 height=25>Pct. <TH width=50 bgColor=#a00020 height=25>PF <TH width=50 bgColor=#a00020 height=25>PA <TH width=50 bgColor=#a00020 height=25>Delta </TH></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
1995​
</TD><TD width=265 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>Michigan
</TD><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
9​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
4​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0.692​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
338​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
223​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
115​
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
1996​
</TD><TD width=265 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>Michigan
</TD><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
8​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
4​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0.667​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
277​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
184​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
93​
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
1997​
</TD><TD width=265 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>Michigan
</TD><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
12​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
1.000​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
322​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
114​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
208​
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
1998​
</TD><TD width=265 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>Michigan
</TD><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
10​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
3​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0.769​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
359​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
235​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
124​
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
1999​
</TD><TD width=265 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>Michigan
</TD><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
10​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
2​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0.833​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
361​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
247​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
114​
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
2000​
</TD><TD width=265 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>Michigan
</TD><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
9​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
3​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0.750​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
404​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
229​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
175​
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
2001​
</TD><TD width=265 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>Michigan
</TD><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
8​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
4​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0.667​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
320​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
237​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
83​
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
2002​
</TD><TD width=265 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>Michigan
</TD><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
10​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
3​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0.769​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
361​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
265​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
96​
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
2003​
</TD><TD width=265 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>Michigan
</TD><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
10​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
3​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0.769​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
460​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
219​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
241​
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
2004​
</TD><TD width=265 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>Michigan
</TD><TD vAlign=top width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
9​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
3​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
0.750​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
370​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
279​
</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=50 bgColor=#e1d2d2 height=18>
91​
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Click to expand...

Add his current record of 7-4 and he can do no better than 8-4 this year, that will be 3 + losses in 7 out of the last 8 seasons since they went 12-0 in 1997.

When you look at his record, it is amazing he is still there regardless of his 1 national championship.
 
Upvote 0
WestEnd said:
In retrospect, it's easy for me to say: Lllloyd Carr coached one hell of a game yesterday, and his team played GREAT.

In regards to the pooch ... it was perfectly executed. A FG into the wind in that situation would have been tough, and given the buck's great field position. Also, hats of to lllloyd for a couple GUTSY decisions to go for it on 4th down. He was 50% before that play, which is the way it goes in these types of games ... you make some plays and you don't make some plays.

Also, what about the brilliant execution on the quick snap run to get their third score ... there's one where he got the better of the buckeyes with a brilliant playcall.

I'm going to have to stand up here and say that I will not tolerate any implication that lllloyd and michigan did anything other than play great today, because it takes away from the brilliant play of our guys on offense, defense, AND special teams. Yep I said special teams too ... as bad as the muffs by Ginn were, there were two HUGE recoveries that were pure heart and fire plays.

This game was not lost by anyone on the wolverines side of the ball ... it was WON by the buckeyes.
Click to expand...

I can buy all that.

Especially the way scUM played, I was telling my buddy all game how they haven't missed a single chance to make us pay for the mistakes we had been making and how thats the sign of a very good team.
 
Upvote 0
Jaxbuck said:
I can buy all that.

Especially the way scUM played, I was telling my buddy all game how they haven't missed a single chance to make us pay for the mistakes we had been making and how thats the sign of a very good team.
Click to expand...

yep, they scored on every one of our miscues. They are probably wishing they could have gotten 6 off that fumble, but that was just a HUGE stop for the defense.
 
Upvote 0
For those hoping he stays a good long while also remember this, a few wins vs ND and scUM lite will buy him more time even as he continues to lose to us.

I would bet a Chad Henne haircut on that one.
 
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