Michigan's real nemesis - Troy or Tressel?

[Onebuckfan]

If Carr and his team think like the fans, that it was all Troy and JT and the rest were along for the ride I'm feeling more confident about the game in AA.

 

[BuckBojangles]

OK, I've had enough!

These really nice, effusive postings from scUM fans are really gratifying, but they are SO CREEPY.

We never sat around admiring Tom Brady, Tim Biatchabatuka or Chris Perry. Charles Woodson...we hate that guy...to this day. F the Heisman trophy! Get some CAJONES. Quit being nice.

Troy v. Tressel:
Jim Tressel is definitely the catalyst for the victories and winning spirit versus Michigan and the root of OSU's football success. Troy Smith has fully embraced his program and uses his incredible talent to take us to another level. But it's even much more than both of them. It's the assistant coaches, the great players being brought in at every position. It's senior leadership and great incoming excellent young talent. There are so many levels in which the program has just become top to bottom a complete class act. I dream it'll be like the 49ers dynasty, where we just do things differently and with such a high esteem.

 

[daddyphatsacs]

Troy and Tressel have been a thorn in Michigan's side. I think that Tressel's record speaks for itself, and having Troy at qb over the past 3 seasons has definately helped it out. It's kind of trite to say that one or the other are responsible for the recent success, I'd have to say that both are. I'd also like to think that after Troy graduates we will still have the same kind of success that has occurred since Tressel took over.

 

[JCOSU86]

When I looked at this thread on the front page it said:

"Michigan's real nemisis - ... daddyphatsacs"


'nuff said.

 

[daddyphatsacs]

When I looked at this thread on the front page it said:

"Michigan's real nemisis - ... daddyphatsacs"


'nuff said.

:susp:

 

[SMJ2617]

OK I hear ya guys...and JT may very well be the right answer....but as I said to my brother....lemme ask you this....which TSUN team do you think would have had the better shot in the Shoe this year:

Carr coached Michigan with Troy at QB vs Tressel coached OSU (without Troy)

or

Tressel coached Michigan vs Carr coached OSU with Troy at QB

or if that's just to weird to think about

....you can just think about it this way....who would have had a better shot:

Michigan vs a Troy-less OSU

or

Michigan vs a Tressel-less OSU

JT is indeed a great coach....but the bottom line, is given the amazing nums he's put up in this series I'd take whoever had Troy at QB in the 1st scenario and whoever wasn't playing Troy in the 2nd scenario!

....and my Buckeye brother agreed!

In all honesty I do believe that a Tressel coached scUM would have beaten a Carr coached Ohio State this year. Both teams had tremendous talent but I don't believe Carr developed ways to use the talent that he had on his team. Tressel's ability to do this on the other hand speaks for itself whether it is through a rarely used senior (Tyree & Hall) or through his game plan to spread the scUM defense out and let Troy pick them apart. Tressel comes into these games with game plans that give his team the advantage and utilize his assets. With that being said Tressel would have more than likely found a way to make Troy a non-factor had he been coaching scUM this year.

Tressel is definitely the reason we have seen so much success in big games over the past 6 years, but thats just my opinion.

 

[JoJaBuckeye]

Good questions all. Very hard to say. Football has so many dynamic facets in play at any one time during training, practice and games: head coach, QB, staff, team...

I'm not convinced it comes down to a single person in a single role. Even Vince Young had to have a half decent OL to perform the way he did, and the DL had to keep opponents off their game.

One might even argue that this year we won because in the final minutes of the game, the clock was on Tressel's side. A few more minutes might have resulted in an entirely different outcome, and we Buckeyes would be the ones sitting here wondering whether it was Carr, Hart, or Henne who made the difference.

 

[BUCKYLE]

If I were a scUMmer, I'd be trying to rationalize Troy being the reason also. But you are wrong. Tressel's QB is the answer. WHOMEVER that is.

 

[23Skidoo]

Carr coached Michigan with Troy at QB vs Tressel coached OSU (without Troy)

or

Tressel coached Michigan vs Carr coached OSU with Troy at QB

or if that's just to weird to think about

....you can just think about it this way....who would have had a better shot:

Do you know why that is so weird to think about? Because Troy would be nothing like he is today if he was coached under Carr. He wouldn't have developed as a QB or a man.
And that is the fundamental reason why the answer has to be Tressel. He recruits quite well, but what he excels at is maturing young men into a solidified team. Troy Smith is a shining example, but it doesn't change the fact that Tressel has developed all of the "weapons" we've used during his tenure to dismantle scUM.

 

[CookyPuss]

Do you know why that is so weird to think about? Because Troy would be nothing like he is today if he was coached under Carr. He wouldn't have developed as a QB or a man.
And that is the fundamental reason why the answer has to be Tressel. He recruits quite well, but what he excels at is maturing young men into a solidified team. Troy Smith is a shining example, but it doesn't change the fact that Tressel has developed all of the "weapons" we've used during his tenure to dismantle scUM.

I'm not sure how you can say this. Some seeds grow on rocky soil. Tressel coudn't make a man out of Mo C, no matter how much he tried. I am not saying that Troy would be accepting the Heisman on Saturday if he had travelled further north for his education, but you cannot say that Carr could not have developed him. Tom Brady is a Carr product and although he never won a Heisman in that system, I'd say he has a pretty impressive resume. (god, I hate defending Carr)

 

[23Skidoo]

I'm not sure how you can say this. Some seeds grow on rocky soil. Tressel coudn't make a man out of Mo C, no matter how much he tried. I am not saying that Troy would be accepting the Heisman on Saturday if he had travelled further north for his education, but you cannot say that Carr could not have developed him. Tom Brady is a Carr product and although he never won a Heisman in that system, I'd say he has a pretty impressive resume. (god, I hate defending Carr)

Correct me if I'm wrong -- but as I recall, Brady went into ttun as a QB. TS came to us, basically as an athlete. He's developed a LOT, and likely NEVER would have seen the playing field as a QB under Carr. He probably would have remained a special teams guy.
As for Carr, I'm operating under the premise that teams emulate their coach. We didn't see TS pull off a classless Heisman poise on the 18th did we? Nor would you EVER find a Tressel-coach player give a post-game interview effectively campaigning for a rematch and talking trash about his opponent.
When Troy Smith came to Ohio State, his character was very rough around the edges -- under Jim Tressel he has taken it upon himself to fix some of those and turned out great not only as a QB but a human being. He would have remained the same under Carr, whose own character is very rough around the edges.
As for Clarett -- you can't win them all. It takes two to tango, and that's why I give as much credit to Troy Smith for maturing as I do to Jim Tressel. But he never would have matured as a player or a person under Carr.

 

[IronBuckI]

I'm not sure how you can say this. Some seeds grow on rocky soil. Tressel coudn't make a man out of Mo C, no matter how much he tried. I am not saying that Troy would be accepting the Heisman on Saturday if he had travelled further north for his education, but you cannot say that Carr could not have developed him. Tom Brady is a Carr product and although he never won a Heisman in that system, I'd say he has a pretty impressive resume. (god, I hate defending Carr)

I think the credit that goes to Coach Tressel is a little overboard sometimes, but he did have a huge role in Troy becoming what he is today. Tom Brady was so well developed by Carr that he shared time at QB with a bad third baseman, and ended up being a throw away sixth round draft pick. Was basically told to get his ass in gear or risk not making the team in his second year in the NFL. Tom Brady took hold of his future, despite shitty guidance of Carr

 

[Conan O'Brien]

Given their penchant for big armed statues, would he have been developed at QB at all were he a wolverine? This also ignores the fact that Michigan did not want him.

 

[23Skidoo]

I think the credit that goes to Coach Tressel is a little overboard sometimes, but he did have a huge role in Troy becoming what he is today. Tom Brady was so well developed by Carr that he shared time at QB with a bad third baseman, and ended up being a throw away sixth round draft pick. Wasn't basically told to get his ass in gear or risk not making the team in his second year in the NFL. Tom Brady took hold of his future, despite shitty guidance of Carr

All true, and on top of that Brady is known to not have the best time at Michigan. He had so much anxiety about the lack of opportunity available (and lack of guidance as well) that he hired a sports psych to help him.
Having done a little research, I also verified that he went into ttun as a blue chip QB.
Tom thrived in spite of Carr, not in any way shape or form because of Carr.

 

[CookyPuss]

Correct me if I'm wrong -- but as I recall, Brady went into ttun as a QB. TS came to us, basically as an athlete. He's developed a LOT, and likely NEVER would have seen the playing field as a QB under Carr. He probably would have remained a special teams guy.
As for Carr, I'm operating under the premise that teams emulate their coach. We didn't see TS pull off a classless Heisman poise on the 18th did we? Nor would you EVER find a Tressel-coach player give a post-game interview effectively campaigning for a rematch and talking trash about his opponent.
When Troy Smith came to Ohio State, his character was very rough around the edges -- under Jim Tressel he has taken it upon himself to fix some of those and turned out great not only as a QB but a human being. He would have remained the same under Carr, whose own character is very rough around the edges.
As for Clarett -- you can't win them all. It takes two to tango, and that's why I give as much credit to Troy Smith for maturing as I do to Jim Tressel. But he never would have matured as a player or a person under Carr.

Smith was a QB when he came to tOSU and was good enough to go to an elite QB camp with MSU's QB. Zwick had the early track to the starting job, so Smith plugged into other needs. It is difficult to say if he would have been a QB at Michigan or if he would have been a special teams player at tOSU had Zwick had better protection from the line when he first got the starting nod or had not been injured against Iowa. I am not downplaying what has occurred between Tressel and Smith. I think it says a lot about Smith that he came to tOSU where he knew he might be relegated to back up or other duties rather than going somewhere he would be guaranteed to play QB.

On the other side, I think Carr is a whiner with the refs and that he can be gruf with the media. I also think that he has a solid value system which he relates to his players on a daily basis. I think tOSU fans have a tendency to look at situations like this through scarlet colored glasses and fail to see the good side of LLLLLoyd. It told me a lot about Carr's character when I heard that Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz's young son declared that he wanted to play for Coach Carr when he grew up. Carr runs a very good, and from what I can tell, clean program. For that I believe he deserves a certain level of respect. That's all I'm saying.