My apologies to Troy Smith

[BB73]

I was originally a big Zwick supporter, but I have grown to really admire the play of TS. The guy has a wonderful TD/INT ratio, I'd like to know what it is. If Smith continues to grow next year like he has the past 6 games of this season, look out for a big Sunday contract

14-4 TD-int ratio for this year. He's been sacked 13 times, the 158.45 is his college QB rating.

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>2005:

</TD><TD>130 for</TD><TD>209,</TD><TD>1940 yards</TD><TD>62.2%</TD><TD>9.28 yds/att</TD><TD></TD><TD>14 TD</TD><TD>4in</TD><TD></TD><TD>158.45 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[Golferdow01]

14-4 TD-int ratio for this year. He's been sacked 13 times, the 158.45 is his college QB rating.

<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td align="left">2005:

</td><td>130 for</td><td>209,</td><td>1940 yards</td><td>62.2%</td><td>9.28 yds/att</td><td>
</td><td>14 TD</td><td>4in</td><td>
</td><td>158.45 </td></tr></tbody></table>

Thanks Bill...again, great end to the season for Smith. I would like to see how he does in the bowl game if we play a really tough defense. He still has to prove to me he can take down the very best

 

[jwinslow]

Where I think he is an unquestionable force, and where I think he brings (perhaps) his greatest value, is as a team leader.

Most of the TS critics laughed at this rationale for him at QB. If that is not a leader, I don't know what is. I don't see him being a future NFL starter, but I seem him as a great college QB. His maturity, unselfishness, and hardwork has finally paid dividends.

As for the tough D dispute: VY wasn't that great against a tough D, but he did enough to win. If you can't see a difference in the way Troy plays now, then I have to guess you're a little stubborn. It may be true that he is not quite as good as his UM performances.

However, vs Texas he ran with reckless abandon. Against PSU, he still wanted to run but was told not to, and instead didn't even scramble efficiently. Neither game saw any sort of progression, dump offs, vision, etc.

Michigan does not have a bad defense. They are stereotyped that way, but that secondary did a much better job then I thought they would.

I don't think Troy threw a single bad pass yesterday, other than when a DL came free up the middle and hit him as he threw (to gonzo deep over the middle).

How many times did Troy throw dump offs? How many times did he scramble to throw (something he never did vs Tejas)?

A huge difference yesterday: 4-5 passes to the flats which were gorgeous. He led the target and let them catch it in full stride. That is a huge difference between the passes he was throwing behind Ginn on the bubble screens vs. Tejas.

 

[RMosack]

Going into yesterday, it was hard to buy into the perceived improvement since it had all occured against the bad defenses following Penn State. Yesterday, he played well against a good defense. That says something about true improvement.

Therefore, has he gotten better? Yes. Then again, who's to say any QB on the roster wouldn't improve with the last dozen or so starts Smith has gotten? JT chose to go with Smith and put up with some pitiful QB in multiple games. Now, Smith looks to have improved. You have to wonder where Zwick's game would be if JT gave him the same opportunities. On the same token, would Boeckman have been any more inept than Smith in the first four of Smith's starts. He was only a FR last year, but nobody knows if he (like Zwick) wouldn't have grown into an All Big Ten passer if given the long rope Smith got. Heck, he'd have two more full years of eligibility left to get even better on the field.

Anyway, Smith appears to have finally gotten better. The question is can he or can't he read defenses, make good decisions, find the open man, etc. next season as a senior? Or, will he simply shine against scUM?

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

Anyway, Smith appears to have finally gotten better. The question is can he or can't he read defenses, make good decisions, find the open man, etc. next season as a senior? Or, will he simply shine against scUM?

remember, he'll have the long off-season to be the #1 quarterback, who takes most of the snaps. also, he'll spend much more time this off-season looking at tape, which is something he rarely did, if he did it all, during the last off-season. smith and tressel have commented that watching tape has been what has likely helped him the most in his progression through the season. had smith been the #1 quarterback before this season, it is virtually impossible to believe that he wouldn't have brushed away the cobwebs much earlier in the season. the game against miami might have been the only brush-up.

 

[BrutusMaximus]

Did anybody see JT's comment about the final drive? He said "Oh we actually were not trying for a TD at all....just wanted to set up for the field goal".

With that in mind, I had a thought. Troy, when he goes out and plays HIS game......he looks great, he throws the ball down field, he makes plays with his feet. When you try to coach him away from that, he doesnt look very good. I still come back to the fact that trying to run him in a conservative offense is not what you wanna do with this guy. I absolutely do not believe that it was his vision and intelligence that made him look bad in a couple games. I think Tress tries to restrict the wide open play as much as possible. Short pass routes, telling him "stay in the pocket! stay in the pocket!".

Now I could be way off base, but in both scUM games, he was able to lead the team, play his style, and looked fantastic.

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

i don't think that you're way off base, brutus, but i do respectfully disagree. i think that the reason for smith's progression has been his increased experience of going through the reads and not locking in on a single receiver. there was a huge difference in troy pre-iowa and troy during and after iowa. well, one needs to exclude penn state. i think we saw troy revert to troy pre-iowa because he was in a hostile, rattling crowd, and he was still struggling to look to multiple receivers. anyway. against iowa, troy appeared to be forced to sit in the pocket and go through his reads. i don't think that he was forced to sit in the pocket because the coaches want him to become a pocket passer; i think that he was forced to sit in the pocket because the coaches wanted him to experience going through his progressions during a game. he has been a completely different passer ever since he's learned how to go through his progressions in a game situation.

i think that if troy is a quarterback who can go from his first receiver to his third receiver, there are few who are better than he is. seeing him dump off underneath yesterday only furthers my belief that his progress as a quarterback could be measured by leaps and bounds.

 

[bukIpower]

Well as you all know I was an extream Troy Smith supporter last year, and even more so at the end of the year. However, this year after the Penn State Loss I kind of said some things I wish I didn't. Like Troy Smith is definatly not made out to be a QB, and he's not our answer, and that neither Zwick or Smith was the answer at QB. I was wrong, and I feel like a fool for going against my initial thought of Troy Smith. Which was He makes excellent decisions, scrambles when he needs to, and has a cannon for an arm...

Anyone else notice how Troy has definatly not that many running plays called for him as of the past 5 games? He'll have a few options but Troy is definatly staying in the pocket most of the game.

 

[WestEnd]

"If you don't play great against Michigan, you're not a great player."
-Earle Bruce

I think yesterday, more than anything else, the offensive line proved that if they can give Troy the time he to beat zone coverages, he'll get the job done. That Penn State game was just so tough because of the conditions and the PRESSURE that PSU was getting.

I've said it before, if we can find a couple guys to step up for Sims and Mangold, this offense will be lethal with Troy at the helm next year.

But really, the thing you have to respect is the way JT grooms QB's. Now, with Troy's senior season on the horizon, it's becoming quite apparant to me that JT wants his QB's to be LEADERS, FIGHTERS and WINNERS. In that order. Obviously there are all those tangible things that the coaches grade out with his decision making and whatnot, but it seems to me like JT's development of QB's results in guys that are leaders and fighters rising above guys that are technicians (ie krenzel over mcmullen, and then smith over zwick).

The short-sighted view that I think so many of us took of JT's priorities at QB were based on a very specific set of circumstances that Craig Krenzel existed in. Sure, the most obvious thing was the lack of big mistakes that Krenzel made, but I think now looking back on it, that was just Krenzel being Krenzel. He's was SMART as hell and would not make the big mistake. But what get's overlooked when it comes to Krenzel was his uncanny ability to LEAD, and his never-ending FIGHT that just rubbed off on his teammates. I think the Ozone did a feature on Krenzel a couple years ago, and here's an exerpt that I saved from it ...

"
Linebacker Cie Grant sat next to Krenzel two nights ago at dinner at the Mongolian Grill. About six guys were there -- all members of Ohio State's football team -- and their discussion centered on this weekend's regular-season finale against Michigan at Ohio Stadium.
"We were talking about how big the week was, and Craig talked about it in that tone of his," Grant said. "Two of his linemen were there, and they were rallying around him, staring straight at him like they were in a huddle. I just sat there, amazed.
"You know, there's just something different about him. I can't explain it."
"

Really, THAT'S what Tressel wants in a QB and THAT'S why Krenzel was, and I think (in his senior season) Troy will be, GREAT QB's in Columbus. Krenzel was just alot quicker to pick up the technical aspect of the game. I think Tressel thinks of himself as a TEACHER, and like any great teacher in any aspect of life, he is patient almost to a fault. But he doesn't doubt his ability to teach.

While we could sit here and compare and contrast the two all day, really the only thing I want to point out is that the one thing Tressel QB's have in common is the abilty to lead, a never ending fight, and a burning fire for victory.

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

Anyone else notice how Troy has definatly not that many running plays called for him as of the past 5 games? He'll have a few options but Troy is definatly staying in the pocket most of the game.

it is great, though, that smith forces the linebackers not to stray too far. i think that we would see more draw plays for smith if he were facing a team that is vulnerable to them. i still like the idea of running a handful of quarterback play action draws, which would then necessarily change the d's pass coverage, only to pass just behind the linebackers, to the corners, and to a slanting receiver.

 

[BrutusMaximus]

i don't think that he was forced to sit in the pocket because the coaches want him to become a pocket passer; i think that he was forced to sit in the pocket because the coaches wanted him to experience going through his progressions during a game. he has been a completely different passer ever since he's learned how to go through his progressions in a game situation.

Ok I can maybe agree with that, and that's good. I guess I was tryin to make a point on more of a grand scale. the fact that we are constantly "playing for the field goal" is a problem. We have the offense to move the ball and actually build leads in big games, but we tend to sit back and let the pieces fall where they will. That doesnt always work. Against PSU, they were in a hostile atmosphere, against a very good defense, and just looked bad. I didnt feel real bad after that loss.

Against Texas on the other hand............no way we shoulda lost the game. Playing for field goals, being conservative, not making mistakes, playing great defense and special teams will win you alot of games, but eventually you'll lose em because of the same philosophy. Think about it, we are 2 plays away from being undefeated this year.

This is not me bitching and whining by the way, just opening a discussion. Yesterday was a great game, a great win, and I am proud as hell of the Buckeyes. And by god do I hope we get a shot at those damn Domers in the Fiesta.

 

[bukIpower]

Yea you're definatly right.. I like the QB draw atleast 2-5 times a game. It just gives a defense more to think about. It'll drawl teams closer to the line of scrimmage with he, and pittman. Then we can hit them over the top with a big play or like you said maybe split the corners and safties on a slant and take it to the house via the short passing game.

 

[FookMichiganTGJ]

One of the biggest plays i think Troy made yesterday was the 3rd and 10 scramble he took 14 yards for the first down. When he cut back and juked that guy out that was one of the most athletic plays ive ever seen anyone make. And I belive 1 or 2 plays later Holmes caught that touchdown pass to put us down by 2 with 6 mins left.

My dad was talking about this and it makes sense to me...If for some reason holmes stays around next year troy smith is gonna win the hiesman. With Gonzo,Ginn,Hall,Dukes, and Frost all back for sure i predict troy has a monster year

 

[jwinslow]

Therefore, has he gotten better? Yes. Then again, who's to say any QB on the roster wouldn't improve with the last dozen or so starts Smith has gotten? JT chose to go with Smith and put up with some pitiful QB in multiple games. Now, Smith looks to have improved. You have to wonder where Zwick's game would be if JT gave him the same opportunities. On the same token, would Boeckman have been any more inept than Smith in the first four of Smith's starts. He was only a FR last year, but nobody knows if he (like Zwick) wouldn't have grown into an All Big Ten passer if given the long rope Smith got. Heck, he'd have two more full years of eligibility left to get even better on the field.

Anyway, Smith appears to have finally gotten better. The question is can he or can't he read defenses, make good decisions, find the open man, etc. next season as a senior? Or, will he simply shine against scUM?

First of all, Zwick has improved. However, as seen by his NW sack, when things break down, there is a reason we want Smith in at QB. On 3rd and 10, he made an absurd play to make that first down. There is no chance Zwick does not get sacked on the gonzo bomb (he couldn't throw it away inside the tackle box).

Troy has always been described as a great leader and just has 'it.' He improved a ton since PSU, when he was not playing his game, and you could see it in his hesitancy to scramble. The loss is his fault, if only b/c he was behind in his development as a QB (should have been better at progression and dumpoffs before the end of his 4th season).

Did anybody see JT's comment about the final drive? He said "Oh we actually were not trying for a TD at all....just wanted to set up for the field goal".

With that in mind, I had a thought. Troy, when he goes out and plays HIS game......he looks great, he throws the ball down field, he makes plays with his feet. When you try to coach him away from that, he doesnt look very good. I still come back to the fact that trying to run him in a conservative offense is not what you wanna do with this guy. I absolutely do not believe that it was his vision and intelligence that made him look bad in a couple games. I think Tress tries to restrict the wide open play as much as possible. Short pass routes, telling him "stay in the pocket! stay in the pocket!".

Now I could be way off base, but in both scUM games, he was able to lead the team, play his style, and looked fantastic.

I agreed with your point above, but I want to comment on the "short pass routes" thing. Smith is ok with short passes, but the majority of his greatness comes when the play takes a while to develop. Deep passes to Ginn/Holmes/Gonzo, scrambling very late in the play, etc.

I had questioned why we had totally different pass plays with Zwick. I think grad and others were spot on when they said he works better under center. He throws better, he scrambles better, and most importantly, he scrambles to throw better.

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

now that's a sig, fook.

boy, smith and pittman both made a few defenders miss big. those two guys know how to use the stutter step.